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View Full Version : arrows straight vs. spine



walleyed
02-25-2011, 07:50 AM
I am currently shooting Carbon Express 3-D selects which are the straightest, most consistant spine I have found but are very expensive (180 clams for my last dozen custom fletched). I have read some stuff that straightness is not that important and it is mainly spine consistancey you should look at. I like Carbon Express arrows with the bull nocks but maybe I need to broaden my horizons and look elsewhere for something more affordable? Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. Oh and also in that same article they said you could shoot the spine out of arrows by them going into the target and thining the walls of the arrow each shot, they put a value to that but I cant remember how many, any thoughts on it?

(nothing gets a site going like a good arrow debate except maybe a my bow is better than your bow thread)

Elkcrazedfrk
02-25-2011, 01:04 PM
I would disagree on straightness of an arrow not being important? As far as spine goes, I think having a properly spined arrow for your set-up is very important as well. As far as spine consistancy???? Not tracking on that one. I've shot tthe same three arrows into a target more than I care to mention and have never had a problem with "shooting the spine out"? They still fly great and tune well. I've had great luck with Eastons and Goldtips. Both are under 100 bucks a dozen. That is my 2 cents on it..

Shane
02-25-2011, 01:42 PM
I shoot Easton Axis in my hunting set up and and Flatline's out of my target setup. I have shot may different arrows off both of my setups trying to find what works best. I am still working with the axis to get exactly what I want. I think straightness is important, but what we have found is the spine of arrow seems to be more crucial, at least with targets setups. We have tried some that have tighter straighness tolerance, but the spine was not as high, and could not get them to tune. Most of the easton arrows seem to have good straightness and have spines that work with mine and the other local shooters bows.

walleyed
02-25-2011, 02:21 PM
Here is the link to the article I read. I did not do it justice. http://www.carbontecharrows.com/main/arrow-spine-weight-and-straightness/

or at least I think it worked.

walleyed
02-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Thanks, I tried to post the link to the article I read but the eastman site police must have shut it down too bad its a good read and my explanation did not do the article justice.

Adam
02-25-2011, 02:33 PM
walleyed,
Posting links to sites for the benefit of a question, information for another member, or to help demonstrate your point isn't going to be deleted. We just won't tolerate guys trying to advance themselves or a product they're associated with. Don't sweat it...you're fine.

walleyed
02-25-2011, 03:13 PM
Again I wish the link would have went up it explains all your questions but Ill try. Spine consistancy was created by easton it takes a 29" shaft and you place it on two stands 28" apart. You then take a 1.94 # weight and hang it in the middle of the shaft, you then measure the amount of flex in the shaft to give you the spine of your arrow. Different manufactures have tolerances to which each spine of the shaft can vary giving you spine consistancy. When a carbon arrow is shot into a target several hundred times the out side of the arrow is worn off a little at a time and the outside of the arrow is the main part of the arrow where the spine is determined so as it wears the spine gets less causing your arrow to fly left or right. I thought this stuff was intresting and was looking for a cheaper shaft that took this stuff into account. Oh and by the way Im not trying to sell anything Im trying to buy.

Whitetail101
02-25-2011, 05:41 PM
When selecting an arrow you want to look for an arrow with a static spine that is close to your dynamic spine range of your setup. For a hunting arrow I like an arrow slighly on the stiffer side of the dynamic range and then I adjust the arrow accordingly to shift the dynamic range to match the arrow. While straightness is a good factor to consider, the average archer who is looking to maintain a group under 6 inches will not notice any difference in the straightness tolerance of one set of arrows to another. The tournament archer who's goal is to maintain a 1 inch group out to 50 yards in order to win a tournament is the one who will notice the difference, as the straighter arrows will group tighter than the less than straight arrows.

Elkcrazedfrk
02-25-2011, 05:48 PM
Walleyed...I think most will agree that you dont need to spend 130 bucks for good arrows. I'm not partial to any one brand but can say with confidence that either Easton or Goldtip are a good quality arrow. I've always shot the midgrade shafts Easton axis or Goldtip XT Hunters. Both sites will show straightness tollerances and have spine charts to get you behind the right shaft. Something else to think about is by the time you have shot an arrow enough times to wear out its outer walls, its time to get new arrows.

*******
03-03-2011, 11:11 PM
In my experience building arrow set ups for hunting, 3D and competitive target competition, straightness is quite important. I alway got the straightest shaft I justify buying for all the set ups I have. Right now all my arrows are +/- 0.001'' manufacturers specification straightness.
From each dozen I measure all the spines and pull any that are too far out. This makes a much bigger difference in my 90 meter arrows than my hunting or 3D arrows.

One thing that I find a lot of people don't take into account is the position of the spine in the arrow. I like to set up all my inserts so that my broad heads and fletches sit at the same orientation to the spine. This has made, by far, the biggest difference in grouping with my hunting arrows. My average group size at 70 yards dropped 0.85'' between the arrows with the spine orientation matched and the ones where they weren't matched.

As far as the spine being 'shot out' of the arrow, I believe it. Arrows seem to have a certain number of shots they can take before things start to go hay wire. I don't know if it is the friction of target impacts, I think it would have more to do with the materials in the arrow being broken down by repeated shock and flexing.

RUTTIN
03-04-2011, 07:34 AM
One thing that I find a lot of people don't take into account is the position of the spine in the arrow. I like to set up all my inserts so that my broad heads and fletches sit at the same orientation to the spine. This has made, by far, the biggest difference in grouping with my hunting arrows. My average group size at 70 yards dropped 0.85'' between the arrows with the spine orientation matched and the ones where they weren't matched.
.

How do you find the position of the spine in the arrow? I have heard of floating them in the bath tub, but curious how to do this.

Whitetail101
03-04-2011, 07:54 AM
In my experience building arrow set ups for hunting, 3D and competitive target competition, straightness is quite important. I alway got the straightest shaft I justify buying for all the set ups I have. Right now all my arrows are +/- 0.001'' manufacturers specification straightness.
From each dozen I measure all the spines and pull any that are too far out. This makes a much bigger difference in my 90 meter arrows than my hunting or 3D arrows.

One thing that I find a lot of people don't take into account is the position of the spine in the arrow. I like to set up all my inserts so that my broad heads and fletches sit at the same orientation to the spine. This has made, by far, the biggest difference in grouping with my hunting arrows. My average group size at 70 yards dropped 0.85'' between the arrows with the spine orientation matched and the ones where they weren't matched.

As far as the spine being 'shot out' of the arrow, I believe it. Arrows seem to have a certain number of shots they can take before things start to go hay wire. I don't know if it is the friction of target impacts, I think it would have more to do with the materials in the arrow being broken down by repeated shock and flexing.

In the days of wooden arrows the grain of the arrow had to be aligned a certain way to allow the arrow to flex in the proper direction for accurate shooting. They termed this "aligning the spine". In todays market with carbon and alluminum arrows there is no grain to align as most carbon arrows are wrapped in various cross or X patterns. It is no longer necessary or possible to align the grain of the arrow, what is needed is properly spined arrows that match the dynamics of your setup.

I would suspect that what you are calling "aligning the spine" is in actuallity you are aligning to slight bends in the arrow due to them not being perfectly straight.

walleyed
03-04-2011, 02:43 PM
The link appeared in my post from earlier its a good read check it out. Good info flowing in. Thanks to all

*******
03-04-2011, 04:53 PM
Whitetail101: For wrapped and spiral bound carbon arrows, your right, there is no real spine to the arrow. With these types of arrow, I don't align to the spine. For all the other arrows that are produced from linear carbon fibers formed on a mandrill there is a noticeable spine. To find this I have an arrow spine checking set up (the classic weight and deflection scale method). Hang your weight with a narrow surface area hanger (small wire) and rotate the arrow to find the spine. Alternately you can use the same method used on carbon fishing rod blanks. Apply force the shaft to flex it against a hard, narrow ridge (counter top edge). Roll the rod slowly down the edge until you find a place where the shaft is harder to flew or skips (slides) rather than rolling.

Most of the woven fiber arrows are pricey and not everyone uses them. For the rest of us with linear fiber arrows, aligning to the spine helps.

Ruttin: I've never heard of a floating method, sounds interesting though. I'm going to have to give that a try.

wolftalonID
03-11-2011, 08:52 PM
This may seem a bit strange, however I have found perfect arrows cost me more very fast. I have destroyed so many from shooting groups. I tried a target with 9 small spots to shoot at, but I love shooting groups of three or four arrows. The more spendy the arrow, the closer the group as they say, but then again, I cant afford to buy $120 a dozzen arrows every weekend.
For target shooting to limit my arrow destruction rates, I have been shooting the off brand that sportsmans labels as their own, even though they changed them about 19 months back, they still seem to work. At 50 yrds I can keep them on a pop can. If thats tight enough to hunt by its tight enough of a group for me.