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gon4elk
10-03-2011, 08:46 PM
How about a little discussion on the topic of Broadheads - Mechanical vs. Fixed for Elk. I would like to get some thought on this since I've used both and swore I'd never go back to Mechanical for elk. 4 - 5years ago I had a bull come in to me at 30 yards broadside and I stuck him right behind the front shoulder at the elbow. I was using the NAP Spitfire (mechanical) at the time and was shocked that it only went in as far as it did (12 -16"). The bull just stood there and looked at the arrow and then walked off. To make a long story short, we never found the bull dead and the blood trail poor. At that point I went back to a fixed blade and went with the G5 Montec. 2 years ago I stuck a 5 pnt at 60 yrds and it went less than 30 yrds piled up in site, blood pouring out. I was sold. Last week, using the same G5 Montec I stuck a bull at 20 yrds broadside, double lung, no pass through (broadhead was hung up on the hide). The blood trail was poor at best only a few drops here and there and basically had to trail him by disturbed ground. He went 125 yrds and piled up and wasn't hard to find since the area was pretty open.

Anyway, the guys I hunt with both use Grim Reaper (Mechanical). They were ribbing me about the small head (100 grain G5) that I've been using and the small cutting surface. Yes it is a small head and surface but I've been happy with them and have no intention to going to mechanical.

Let's hear some thoughts out there. Remember this if for Elk only.


Steve

jenbickel
10-03-2011, 09:36 PM
Next year, I am definitely going for fixed blade. I had such a horrible time this year elk hunting with my mechanicals. I have heard a lot of good stuff about the G5 Montec's. I think that is going to be the first one I try.

Joe Hulburt
10-03-2011, 10:29 PM
I have never used a mechanical but your first account of how they performed for you tells me everything I need to know. Most of the elk I have killed have been with Thunderheads and there has ALWAYS been an adequate blood trail to recover the animal. I have killed a few with Shuttle T's and to be honest for whatever reason I was disappointed with the blood trail both times so I gave up on them. Back in the day I shot some giant 175 grain 4 blade Satellite's which worked outstanding shooting 190 FPS but I doubt they would work at 290. The spike bull I killed this year was with a Slick Trick Magnum (4 blade) and it was a perfect pass thru that took out both lungs. He went less than 40 yards and had a very impressive hole clear thru him!

I guess the main reason I will always use fixed blade heads is for maximum penetration. I really like to have a pass thru or at least have the head come thru the far side to add to the blood trail. Every once in a while even when things seem to go well it turns into an adventure and the more blood the better. I'm not falling for all the expensive RAGE ads on TV. ;) No matter what, shot placement is paramount and no gizmo is going to eliminate that fact even though they suggest they will solve all your problems if you mess up. Not on an elk..... My opinion anyhow. :)

bowhuntress
10-04-2011, 06:37 AM
I actually just did a test this past weekend for my bow with mechanical and fixed. I shoot 55# and have a 28" draw length. I have shot 3 elk, all with a mechanical broadhead.
#1 - 20 yards, broadside shot through the heart. Arrow went through and stuck out about 8" on each side.
#2 - 30 yards, broadside shot through the lungs, complete pass through
#3 - 25 yards, broadside shot through the back of the lungs, complete pass through

I was a little hesitant about using the mechanical again as I wanted to get more penetration so we did a test this weekend on one of the elk shoulder bones. I used a mechanical (I can't remember our brand, have to look) and a fixed (muzzy) and shot from 20 yards. The mechanical blade went IN one inch farther than the fixed did (quite surprising to me). It did brake a blade off on entry though so only had 2 blades going through the bone (we decided the broadhead I was using does have weak blades so may be changing something there). The fixed still had all blades and bent one up pretty good.

So that is my experience, although the experiement above is the only time I have ever shot a fixed blade.

**One other thing, my husband and I both shoot mechanical and we both shot an elk this fall. The elk he shot BARELY had a blood trail, perfect double lunger and the bull went less than 100 yards (with more blood right before it piled up). The bull I shot, double lunger as well, had blood the minute I shot it and you could follow it without stopping and my elk went about 100 yards too. His elk went uphill, mine went downhill. I don't know what the meaning of that is but just something to add about the amount of blood that is sometimes seen.

RUTTIN
10-04-2011, 07:39 AM
I was curious about all the "Rage" that was going on, so I tried the mechanical a few years back. I killed a bull the first year with a well placed broadside shot. The next year I shot a bull that was quartering away a little, the arrow sliced all the way along his ribs, and finally penetrated when it hit the leg, only going in about 4 inches. (I shoot 72lbs with a 420 grain arrow) Lost a deer that year too. I went back to my two blade Magnus Stinger and have never looked back. Whether I shoot quartering, broadside, or head on(at close range when I know I can put it in the sweet spot) I have never had the Magnus fail. Just my 2 cents.

squirrelduster
10-04-2011, 09:29 AM
I have shot the G5 for several years and not been too impressed with the blood trail. Shot deer and pigs with it. I have tried a couple different mechanical heads and there always seems to be some kind of issue, blades bend easy, they deploy before they get to the target, you take it out of the quiver and need to reset the blades or some other inconvenience. Too unreliable in my opinion and that is before you even shoot them. I don't want to be pulling back on a big bull or buck and need to let off to reset the blades. Could ruin the shot i have worked years to get. Just my opinion.
Penetration has not been an issue but decided to change this year and started using Wacem heads. Seems to be a better head with very thick blades for a replaceable blade broadhead. Super sharp and fly like field points plus they are made in Utah. Great customer service. I had a question and they answered it with no bs. Also sent me an extra pack of blades for no charge.
Good company and great service made in the USA, give them a try you wont be sorry.

miller1
10-04-2011, 09:59 AM
I am with squirrel, Wac'ems are the best flying head i have used and they get awsome penetration, they are also a great company, i use the 4 blade Exit

Quiethunter
10-04-2011, 10:56 AM
Unfortunately I don't think there is a single, right answer for Fixed vs Mechanical. It really depends on what you are comfortable with and what works for you. Here is what is most important to me. 1. Accuracy. 2. Dependability 3. Penetration 4. Cutting (diameter etc.)
That being said, I have had a hard time getting the accuracy from a fixed blade I get out of a mechanical. Even when I get a fixed blade to work "good enough", when I try shooting with bad form (sitting, weight on off foot, stance too open or closed, uphill, etc.) it gets much worse with a fixed blade. Bad form shooting is all to oftern part of hunting I find, but the mechanical blades seem to be much more forgiving in this area. Since Accuracy is my number one goal, I end up with a quiver full of mechanicals.
With my second priority being dependability, I find I have to compromise with using a mechanical as who can argue that a fixed blade has nothing that can go wrong with it? I have found that if you take a little bit of care with the mechanicals, they will be dependable enough. I have never experienced some of the issues others have with mechanicals opening up prematurely or incorrectly (knocking on wood).
Number three is penetration. In my mind, this is a compromise between penetration and cutting performance. I have read many studies in the area and it is documented that penetration goes down as the amount of cutting area goes up (makes sense). Other factors include arrow weight and tuning. All things being equal, I choose a two blade setup for the best penetration. I have a difficult time envisioning a circumstance where the extra slices from a three or four blade setup would help.
Number 4 is cutting performance. Some may put this higher, but I find a sharp blade well placed will do the job no matter what diameter it is (within reason). I am not aiming for the edge of the lungs and hoping for a 2.5" cutting diameter for fudge factor, I am aiming for the middle and am fine with a 1" cutting diameter.

As mentioned earlier, I use mechanicals. I would absolutely change to a fixed if I could get the same kind of accuracy out the fixed with all else being equal. This means field point accuracy in all situations likely to be encountered during hunting. Some guys may be able to do this, but I am not there yet. By the same token, I would prefer someone uses a good mechanical they can hit with than a fixed blade flying randomly.

In the last two years I have hit three elk with mechanicals.
One was recovered after a quarting away heart/lung shot with a blood highway a blind man could follow.
On another I hit the shoulder bone and the broadhead broke off at the shaft. The arrow was found with about an inch of blood on it where the hit happened and the elk was not recovered. It is my opinion no broadhead would have remedied my bad shot (still not sure what went wrong).
On another the elk essentially died in his tracks with a high lung shot where the bull was confused, did not know where to run and just stayed where he was. Broadhead performance was ideal.

dito
10-04-2011, 02:06 PM
Fixed blades always open! I've yet to shoot anything. But I am using the German Kinetic 125 xl's. They are big keep an edge and fly with my field points! The pics from people who have shot something with them are insane.

blucrikmuley
10-04-2011, 06:59 PM
gon4elk, i see you are from utah. have you heard of the epek broadhead made locally? there are alot of pros and cons and redesigns but i like them.

MT backcountry hunter
10-04-2011, 07:07 PM
This year I started shooting the Grim Reapers after many conversations from good friends of mine that have been shooting them for years. These guys have shot countless elk and god knows how many other animals with Reapers and they have always been impressed by them. I shot my antelope with one this year and the entrance wound looked like a rifle exit wound, I was sold right there. one of my good friends actually wanted to make his own broadhead and bring it to market, that idea forced him to do alot of testing into ballistic gelatin and he said the reaper won hands down against all other broadheads. Now i wasn't there when he did any of the testing but he has photos to prove it.

I think when it comes down to it though there are a couple of things to think about.
1- are the blades SCARY sharp.
2-Do they fly/tune out of your bow and
3-Do you trust them.

Some guys just don't trust a mechanical on a big bodied animal like a elk where some guys have 100% confidence that a mechanical will put a elk down. For now I believe in my Grim Reapers and have faith that they will put a elk down if I do my part by making a good shot.

Just my 2 cents.

henkesean
10-05-2011, 10:01 AM
I usually shot the muzzy mx3 for whitetail and never seemed to have much of a problem. They blew threw any deer in its path even when you hit the shoulder. This year i switched to the magnus stinger two blade with the bleeders and was very impressed. I shot a bull elk at 15 yards and due to hitting the opposite shoulder blade didnt get a pass through. But the elk only ran a total of 60 yards straight down hill with a perfect double lung shot. I will never shoot anything but the magnus stingers from now on. They fly perfect and give you cut on contact awesome penetration from any angle.

I am a sure believer that shot placement is everything especialy on an animal the size of an elk.

Muley Hunter
10-06-2011, 12:49 PM
The last elk I stuck was also with a Grim Reaper. There was no pass through due the GR solidly sticking into the opposite shoulder after breaking a rib on entry and passing through the both lungs. The Grim Reaper ended up with 1 broken blade and the carbon arrow in broken in half after the elk fell onto it. However, there was a good blood trail to where he piled up! He ended up only going 10 yards. Does anyone have comments on the G5 mechanical? I have been curious about them.

sjsmallfield
10-07-2011, 12:44 AM
I decided to try the G5 T3's this year. Shot a buck the opening weekend and got a complete pass through slightly quartering to me. Big entry and a big exit.Good blood trail. I was very happy with the new heads.

JNDEER
10-07-2011, 07:12 PM
You will get takers on both sides of this discussion. A lot of fixed shooters have taken the bait of mech's and had lost an animal they new would have died with a fixed blade BH. Those hunters are back to shooting fixed heads. Personally I feel that you will shoot mech's until you hit an animal quartering, hit a bone, or take a shot past 40 and don't get the outcome you probably could have gotten with a fixed head. After that you will switch to fixed blades and won't go back. I put in too much time, effort and money to have the one shot I could get all year at a deer, pig, bear, etc go bad because the mech I shoot decides to open early, open late, penetrate less, deflect off of a bone, etc.

dcestnik
10-07-2011, 10:09 PM
There is no thing as a repeatable real world test with broadheads and this makes proving mechanicals hard. Fall away rests have proven tried and true for many but the mechanical broadheads haven't given me the assurance I need. Just can't fully test mechanicals while practicing. Until then there are a ton of broadheads like thunderheads, montecs, stingers, etc. that have worked for a lot of people in a lot of situations. On a side note I took a really bad shot at 20y with a montec and it passed through a lot of elk with a ton of blood then a follow up shot at 30y that buried 3 inches in the opposite shoulder and a pile up 15y later.

MIhunter
10-11-2011, 09:31 AM
I have never shot an elk with the Rage broadheads but I've been using them for 4 years on deer (huge difference I get that) but the blood trails are great, the holes are incredible (you can usually put your fist through them) and unless you hit them right in the shoulder socket (I don't know any fixed blades and I have shot several that will go through the socket either) they blow through and keep on going. I have also shot the Grim Reapers and had a lot of success with them as well. Again though, never on elk.

GameSlayer
10-13-2011, 08:02 AM
I have no experience with mechanical broadheads because I live in Idaho and they are not legal. That my be something to consider also, if you ever travel out of state and cannot use your mechanicals you will have to spend more time and money to get a set of fixed blades.
Also I have only had go success with my fixed blade Muzzys..

Joe Hulburt
10-13-2011, 07:33 PM
Good point GameSlayer. Here in Oregon they are illegal as well. Regardless of their effectiveness I am just fine with it too as the anti-bowhunting group would just use any "new advancement" in technology as an excuse to shorten seasons. That is the main reason I have no interest in seeing them legalized.

Clearly from some of the feedback on here they can effectively kill elk but so can numerous fixed heads, there is no debate about that.

poppapump
10-31-2011, 12:03 PM
Magnus snuffer SS, not sure on cutting surface compared to the montec, but the company and warranty is great. More importantly the cut-on-contact design of the snuffers work for years and years. The orginal Rothar Snuffers on my trad gear and the snuffer SS on my compound set up.

Futboler
11-09-2011, 12:49 AM
I'm a Montec guy. They have never failed me and I enjoy gaining confidence using their practice broadheads prior to and during archery season. I find that I need to make minor adjustments when moving from field points to broadheads for the season. From August thru October I just use the practice broadheads when going through my daily regimen. When that special moment comes, I know just what to expect. FIXED all the way.

Montana
11-09-2011, 06:31 AM
Years ago when I first started the archery world I went back and forth on this. Embarrassed to say this but I lost a lot of animals. Probably 1 in 3. To the point that the bow was put away on the 5th day of a 135 day season with 7 unfilled tags in my pocket. Archery was dead to me. During the off season during discussions this topic came up a lot, but I knew this wasn't the solution. There were too many factors, as you archers are aware of, too list here. But here is what has brought me back. Type of broadhead... Nothing to do with it. Be accurate. My bow was at 70 lbs. I dropped it down to 58. Always wait for the PERFECT shot and know that a lot of animals will walk away from you at 20 yards. Whatever range you are comfortable shooting at with targets, reduce in the field. Before I pull the trigger, the animal has to be hit with the range finder, I know this may be a little extreme, but this is what I feel is the ethical route because of my experience. Now in 3 years not a single animal has been lost, usually 3-4 down a year.
So my opinion on broadheads... It doesn't matter. Accuracy, accuracy. find what you shoot well and know your effective range...in the field not your backyard.

NMBowhntr
02-24-2012, 09:14 PM
Have shot thru (accidentally) both shoulders of a small bull elk with the titanium Atom on an Axis arrow. Arrow tipped a branch and went from being a perfect shot to center-punching the shoulder blade. My heart sank! But low and behold, the luminock was clearly indicating the nock was behind his front leg as he ran off. Found him piled up 70-yds away, and you could stick your index finger thru both shoulders.
Obviously wasn't aiming at the shoulder, but I feel the Atom was the reason I found that elk. The titanium razor wire compresses when something compresses it hard enough, like bone, and then springs back open thru the flesh. Best part is, it behaves like a mechanical without being mechanical. For those who are tired of re-sighting every fall to shoot blades, and chewing up your targets like I am, the wires can't plane, and they come with an accuracy guarantee to fly exactly to the same spot as your fieldpoints. And they do for me. Only bad thing is, they are pricey, and I don't know if they are still being made.
Just my experience, they are awesome for elk.

Gatorman
05-11-2012, 01:04 PM
I shoot the G5 Teken T3 for whitetails. I have nothing but good reports from them. Great blood trails and they fly just the same as my field points. I havent killed anything bigger than a 200# whitetail with them, so I cant comment on an animal the size of an elk. Hopefully I will be able to next year when I make it out west.

nvarcher
05-11-2012, 01:44 PM
All broadhead's will work great with a well-placed shot. You want a broadhead that will perform on a marginal shot. That's why I shoot fixed heads.

cnalder
05-12-2012, 06:51 AM
Great post Montana and thanks for the humility. Many of us, including me, have been in the same boat early in our archery careers.
Every other year or so I introduce someone to archery hunting and I always stress, should a poundage that you are accurate and comfortable with. I lived in Boise for years and was always dissappointed in August when all sorts of new folks would show up at the range with new gear. Many struggled to pull their bows back smoothly and couldn't hold them. On person almost shot their foot doing this. For those of us that shot bows 20 years ago, with the new technology you don't have to shoot with the poundage you once used to. Several years ago I had a friend that drew 74lbs and I would get more penetration into the same targets at only 65. He has since bought a top end bow and now out penetrates me at 65lbs.

That being said I learned that it doesn't matter the broadhead or if you shoot $130 a dozen arrows or have the latest gear. You have to be comfortable and confident with your setup, have practiced lots, and know your limitations. At one time mechanicals became popular and I think it was when archery technology really started advancing. IMO I think many folks never learned to tune their bows to get accurate BH/FP flight out of fixed BH, so mechanicals have become increasingly popular. Shouldn't matter what you shoot as long as you can place the arrow where it needs to be and have tuned your setup well.

CrimsonArrow
05-12-2012, 08:12 AM
All broadhead's will work great with a well-placed shot. You want a broadhead that will perform on a marginal shot. That's why I shoot fixed heads.
That is an excellent point, but let me add this. Fixed blade heads will perform better on marginal shots where bone is an issue. Most mechanical heads (assuming a significantly larger cutting diameter) will perform better on marginal soft-tissue shots, like too far back or too high. That being said, I prefer mechanicals strictly for the cutting diameter, and have never had an issue with penetration or deployment.

8750
05-12-2012, 08:43 AM
Is anybody using the "Atom" http://www.arrowds.com/atom/atom.htm. Seems like a good option in theory, wondering how the field reports are for this radical new broadhead design.

CrimsonArrow
05-12-2012, 10:57 AM
Is anybody using the "Atom" http://www.arrowds.com/atom/atom.htm. Seems like a good option in theory, wondering how the field reports are for this radical new broadhead design.
Check NMBowhntr's post above.

nvarcher
05-12-2012, 01:44 PM
That is an excellent point, but let me add this. Fixed blade heads will perform better on marginal shots where bone is an issue. Most mechanical heads (assuming a significantly larger cutting diameter) will perform better on marginal soft-tissue shots, like too far back or too high. That being said, I prefer mechanicals strictly for the cutting diameter, and have never had an issue with penetration or deployment.
Yes but a Fixed head will work great on soft tissue shots. Sure it's not as great as the larger diameter heads. It will definitly outperform a mechanical on a bone shot.

HuskyMusky
05-12-2012, 02:11 PM
the only mechanical I'm sold on is the Rage 2 blade.

I would say Most fixed blades will do the job Most of the time.

I would say Most mechanicals will not.

to each their own, I'm surprised so many bowhunters are constantly changing their setups, I understand wanting to constantly improve but why chance what works? or why fix what's not broken?

I think most guys would be better off getting to know their "older" equipment precisely than every year trying a new broadhead etc...

I use to shoot muzzy's 3 blade 100gr, I now only shoot rage 2 blade, if I ever go back to a fixed broadhead I'll probably shoot what my dad only shoots from day 1 his whole bowhunting career, NAP razorbak 100gr, 2blade w/2 bleeder blades w/rotating technology cut on contact.

8750
05-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Have shot thru (accidentally) both shoulders of a small bull elk with the titanium Atom on an Axis arrow. Arrow tipped a branch and went from being a perfect shot to center-punching the shoulder blade. My heart sank! But low and behold, the luminock was clearly indicating the nock was behind his front leg as he ran off. Found him piled up 70-yds away, and you could stick your index finger thru both shoulders.
Obviously wasn't aiming at the shoulder, but I feel the Atom was the reason I found that elk. The titanium razor wire compresses when something compresses it hard enough, like bone, and then springs back open thru the flesh. Best part is, it behaves like a mechanical without being mechanical. For those who are tired of re-sighting every fall to shoot blades, and chewing up your targets like I am, the wires can't plane, and they come with an accuracy guarantee to fly exactly to the same spot as your fieldpoints. And they do for me. Only bad thing is, they are pricey, and I don't know if they are still being made.
Just my experience, they are awesome for elk.

Wow, Awesome experience. Im glad to hear the Atom performed as it is marketed.

killallcoyotes
05-12-2012, 10:09 PM
I think the G5 montec and the strikers are good. Killed elk with both. I tried the G5 T3 mechanicals, they were always coming open in my quiver. I have been shooting the grim reaper mechanicals, they seem to do good on a target but have yet to shoot an animal with them. I like the montecs but the only down fall is they are fixed, no replacing blades. I think the strikers are the best G5 makes. Both times i killed with the G5's the blood trail was weak that is why i'm trying a mechanical. Bigger cutting area means more blood.... I hope...

packer58
05-14-2012, 06:28 PM
[QUOTE=HuskyMusky;26892]the only mechanical I'm sold on is the Rage 2 blade.

I would say Most fixed blades will do the job Most of the time.

I would say Most mechanicals will not.

to each their own, I'm surprised so many bowhunters are constantly changing their setups, I understand wanting to constantly improve but why chance what works? or why fix what's not broken?

I think most guys would be better off getting to know their "older" equipment precisely than every year trying a new broadhead etc...

Comment : Most bow hunters and archery guys in general are natural born tinkerers, just like guys that reload and bass fishermen......thier always tweaking something to gain that "edge", i know........I'm guilty on all three counts !!!!!!

In God We Trust
05-14-2012, 09:03 PM
packer58 it is funny you say that. I tried a different broadhead 3 seasons in a row. I shot the NAP spitfires for one season and only had one blade deploy on a cow I shot. I now shoot Rocket Broadhead's Meet Seeker. I have killed a few different animals including elk and deer with them and they have performed flawlessly.

dihardhunter
07-29-2012, 09:35 AM
What JNDeer said. I've shot and killed plenty of critters with mechanicals, but I had an experience where I am confident a compact fixed blade would have gotten the job done, but the mechanical fell to pieces. Yes, I could have made a better shot, but I will never shoot mechanicals again. Slick Tricks for me!

ivorytip
07-29-2012, 04:17 PM
the more things that can go wrong will go wrong.

archerycrazy
07-29-2012, 06:14 PM
Yup, you got that right ivorytip!!!!

That's why I shoot Wac'em broadheads. The only thing that can go wrong with it,,, is me!!!

justinthedoc
08-03-2012, 01:51 PM
Killed several elk with rage 2 blades, complete pass throughs. I never use the same head twice though. One at 78 yards quatering still went through. I am sold, think about it, even a closed rage or mechanical is still only slightly smaller than some fixed blade like atoms for instance. This year I am going to try the wasp Z-forces, so far so good. Used to be avidly against mechanical, now I think there the only way to go on some game. If I was hunting say a buffalo, it would definatly be fixed just cause of the strength needed. I have guided over 75 succesful hunts on elk with a bow, and can tell you most if not all of the animals we lost was do to a poor shot placement not the broadhead. So in my theory I would rather shoot something that doesnt or needs very minimal tuning, and for me thats a mechanical head. Just my .02 Oh, i guess I forgot to metion it.. Yes, I did get the Red Carpet Treatment.. the farthest my elk have gone with a good shot with a rage was maybe 60 yrds... The one piled up at about 40yrds, and when he ran past me I literally got sprayed. Was devistating. I have also shot several with fixed, and have had blades brake off when the hit a rib, so would a mechanical. The last animal I shot with a fixed blade was a wasp bullet at 98 yrds. That elk went maybe 60-70yrds. They both work, I just like the bigger holes I guess, and the accuracy of a mechanical.

poppapump
08-03-2012, 02:02 PM
I have a hard time using Rage on a whitetail but on a elk ..................nofrickn way!!!

Nice you are having luck with them but they have done good at times with whitetail and other times have broke and bent badly. That is on a thin skinned 250 pound animal not a thick skin 1000 pound "Bull"

Darktimber
08-03-2012, 05:22 PM
Here is what I believe to be the most thorough and accurate broadhead test out there. It is not biased and most heads were provided by the representing companies. There are some good mechanicals out there and some good fixed blades out there. There are also a lot in there that prove advertising can out sell engineering and the results speak for it. I will still stand by my stance that a good 3 or 4 blade fixed usually has quite a bit more cutting surface than any 2-blade mechanical can offer. Unless you get into cutting diameters over 2 1/2" with the mechanical, your not going to compete and you will almost 100 percent of the time deal with blade breakage at those extreme lengths. Won't exactly be slipping in between any bone with that kind of cutting diameter. Here are the results. If you have the time, look through the whole thread as it has a ton of info on multiple heads.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgJEvQwzfDRZdGxzdC15R0JIZDJGQ1J4bVpGV1pTW Hc#gid=0

hoshour
08-03-2012, 09:41 PM
I shoot two or three whitetails every year here in NC, always with fixed blades. I have used Muzzy, Rocky Mt. and Slick Tricks. I've never lost a deer and nearly every time they are down within 50-60 yards. Why fool around with something mechanical?

I know I'm talking deer, not elk but I doubt it would be any different. If you can hit any large animal in the lungs with enough energy to slice a 1" cut through both lungs, it should always be lethal. Just make sure your blades are razor sharp and you take good shots.

hoshour
08-03-2012, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the spreadsheet, Darktimber. I had an older one and glad to see one for 2012.
BTW, the Slick Tricks I am shooting now are the 1.25 inch.

poppapump
08-08-2012, 07:55 AM
Great spreadsheet, I have seen it before. I shoot the phathead 100. .080 thick blades and it was over 20 inches in pentration tests. IF i was to shoot another head it would be a shuttle T, BUT I love that thick meaty blade of the phathead.

archerycrazy
09-09-2012, 10:51 AM
Fix blade all the way, wac'ems are the best head ive shot.

trophyhill
10-09-2012, 09:11 PM
i used a T3 this year and was suprised i didn't get a pass thru. the arrow got full penetration and all that was sticking out was the fletching on my side and the broadhead on the offside was sticking thru. both lungs and a short recovery

archerycrazy
12-11-2012, 01:36 PM
If i were you i would use fixed blades, I personally do not trust mechanical broad heads. I think the Wac'em Triton is a tough, accurate, and dependable broad head. And would be a great choice to go after and elk with.

rsess32
12-11-2012, 04:18 PM
i agree with quiethunter. i don't think you could go wrong with either style. The technology today is insane and i think you'd be ok using either or. I personally shoot the grim reaper mechanical broadhead and absolutely love it! it works for me. i have punded deer with it and last year i was able to put it to the test on an elk down on the dutton and hit a quartering away bull at 57 yards. He only went about 100 yards before going down and allowing me to rest my hands on his rack. And i have to place the credit on my grim reaper! it's yet to fail me. But my friend i hunt with uses nothing but muzzy and they have yet to fail him too. so i believe its all with what you feel comfortable with and what works for you and your set up.

nvarcher
12-16-2012, 09:13 PM
After some field testing and some penetration testing with the Ulmer Edge I would not be afraid to use it on elk! It is one of the best penetrating heads out there!

velvetfvr
12-17-2012, 06:17 PM
After some field testing and some penetration testing with the Ulmer Edge I would not be afraid to use it on elk! It is one of the best penetrating heads out there!

Yep, this is a great head but I am going to montecs for elk if I can tune them to my bow if I draw a elk tag.


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arrowslinger21
01-05-2013, 10:11 AM
I only have experience killing elk with two heads, both being fixed blades. Thunderheads are great, they leave mazzive wounds, lots of destruction, and lots of blood. However they fly like crap past about 40 yards. I switched to the montec G5s about a year ago after my dad lost a really nice 330" bull because of a thunderhead. IF YOU SHOOT AN EASTON AXIS OR FMJ WITH A THUNDERHEAD BUY AN ADAPTER RING. We didn't know about it, and the diameter of the shaft is small enough that you can lose your blades on a hard enough impact. The montecs are great heads. I shot a bull this year from 40 yards, complete passthrough enough that I never could find the arrow as it hit a rock and skipped when it came out the other side. The bloodtrail was great and he didn't go more then 40 yards.

People say mixed things about penetration with montecs, but here is my theory with why after watching some tests of arrows being shot in various targets. The heads are solid and they dont give. In several tests I have watched the blades on heads like thunderheads and muzzys sheer off, and the arrow creates a bullet hole but still penetrates a bit. The montecs retain the blades and leave a larger hole, but subsequently the arrow is slowed down more on the contact with very hard targets.

Bottom line is this, ive seen some really bad things happen with mechanicals, including the 2 blade rage that someone mentioned. Had a buddy shoot a rage and when impacted an elks rib it turned about 90 degrees and shot the arrow up through the chest cavity. Worked great that time but he said he would never shoot them again because it could have just as easily turned the other direction. All fixed blade heads of any quality will do the job, if you put them in the right spot. Todays bow have enough power, and all the heads worthy of being mentioned are sharp enough and strong enough to do everything you need if you stick one through both lungs and avoid large bones.

Bwht4x4
01-05-2013, 05:11 PM
I've only shot one elk and that was in AZ on a unit 9 tag. I shot it at 27 yards with a G5 Montec and it came out the other side of the elk after it went clean through a rib and landed 30 yards past it. The elk died within 70 yards of me.

The main reason I shoot them is due to how accurate they are for me and my bow. I've had some issues in the past getting good flight out of fixed broadheads.

dying to kill
01-05-2013, 06:21 PM
all tho i havent ever killed a elk i haft to agree with quiet hunter, iv killed over 30 deer with rages and never once had one not perform amazingly, does the blades need re set at times when removed from quiver yes but never at full draw
Unfortunately I don't think there is a single, right answer for Fixed vs Mechanical. It really depends on what you are comfortable with and what works for you. Here is what is most important to me. 1. Accuracy. 2. Dependability 3. Penetration 4. Cutting (diameter etc.)
That being said, I have had a hard time getting the accuracy from a fixed blade I get out of a mechanical. Even when I get a fixed blade to work "good enough", when I try shooting with bad form (sitting, weight on off foot, stance too open or closed, uphill, etc.) it gets much worse with a fixed blade. Bad form shooting is all to oftern part of hunting I find, but the mechanical blades seem to be much more forgiving in this area. Since Accuracy is my number one goal, I end up with a quiver full of mechanicals.
With my second priority being dependability, I find I have to compromise with using a mechanical as who can argue that a fixed blade has nothing that can go wrong with it? I have found that if you take a little bit of care with the mechanicals, they will be dependable enough. I have never experienced some of the issues others have with mechanicals opening up prematurely or incorrectly (knocking on wood).
Number three is penetration. In my mind, this is a compromise between penetration and cutting performance. I have read many studies in the area and it is documented that penetration goes down as the amount of cutting area goes up (makes sense). Other factors include arrow weight and tuning. All things being equal, I choose a two blade setup for the best penetration. I have a difficult time envisioning a circumstance where the extra slices from a three or four blade setup would help.
Number 4 is cutting performance. Some may put this higher, but I find a sharp blade well placed will do the job no matter what diameter it is (within reason). I am not aiming for the edge of the lungs and hoping for a 2.5" cutting diameter for fudge factor, I am aiming for the middle and am fine with a 1" cutting diameter.

As mentioned earlier, I use mechanicals. I would absolutely change to a fixed if I could get the same kind of accuracy out the fixed with all else being equal. This means field point accuracy in all situations likely to be encountered during hunting. Some guys may be able to do this, but I am not there yet. By the same token, I would prefer someone uses a good mechanical they can hit with than a fixed blade flying randomly.

In the last two years I have hit three elk with mechanicals.
One was recovered after a quarting away heart/lung shot with a blood highway a blind man could follow.
On another I hit the shoulder bone and the broadhead broke off at the shaft. The arrow was found with about an inch of blood on it where the hit happened and the elk was not recovered. It is my opinion no broadhead would have remedied my bad shot (still not sure what went wrong).
On another the elk essentially died in his tracks with a high lung shot where the bull was confused, did not know where to run and just stayed where he was. Broadhead performance was ideal.

tdcour
03-07-2013, 10:15 AM
My buddy and I were out in SD for archery mule deer this year, both of us had Rage broadheads. He stuck a big 5x5 square in the shoulder with his 2 blade chisel tip and it only went in far enough to get one lung. We ended up getting the deer about three miles away (thank goodness for open country or we would have lost him). The blades weren't bent up at all and there was a golf ball size hole in the shoulder where it went thought, but terrible penetration. The first mule deer I stuck with my bow was a double-lung and had no issues at all. Complete pass through and he only went about 50-60 yards. I shoot a rage 3-blade, but have not shot anything but deer with them. Completely satisfied with the broadheads on deer. Would I shoot mechanical at elk? Hopefully I'll have to make that decision soon! I know the 3 blade rage supposedly penetrates deeper, but I have not heard of anyone hitting anything larger than a mule deer with them. I'd be interested to see the difference between the 2 and 3 blade expandables in penetration.