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View Full Version : Are ethics just for the field?



Shane
03-01-2011, 11:10 AM
I just have a quick question for everyone. Are ethics only supposed to be present only in the field or should they be present at the range and in tournaments. I know how I feel on the subject but wanted to see if anyone had a different opinion. The reason I ask is we just had a 3D archery shoot and had a group of out of town people blatantly cheat to win a little $3 medal. They took the top 3 places that we award medals for and left. These were all sponsored shooters, and if this is what a manufacturer has representing them I will never purchase any of their products. Thanks for you input.

Doe Nob
03-01-2011, 12:46 PM
Having integrity means you do the right thing when no one is looking.

I have no desire to go hunting with or do business with people who don't have integrity.

arrowslinger21
03-01-2011, 12:55 PM
Having integrity means you do the right thing when no one is looking.

I have no desire to go hunting with or do business with people who don't have integrity.

Agreed 100%. There is no excuse for that, and if I knew who they were sponsored buy I would not buy from them either.

ceby7
03-01-2011, 12:56 PM
If they cheat in tournaments, you can damn well bet they hunt the same way. I have absolutely no respect for these kind of people. You always hear that all of us hunters should stick together so we can protect this heritage. Let me tell you one thing, I have nothing in common with 90% of all hunters out there. Poachers are hunters too, should we support them? How about people who hunt high fences? Ted Nugent is the worst of them all. The word ethics is foreign to him, and I want no part of anything he supports. All hunters are NOT created equally!

MTNMAN5C
03-01-2011, 01:43 PM
Ok....I am one of the three shooters you are speaking of and I know the other two very well. It really frustrates me that you think we cheated to win a $3 medal. I guess I would just like to know why you think we cheated? 1st place dropped 30 points, 2nd place dropped 45 points and 3rd place dropped 85 points. If we were cheating I don't think a -45 or -85 would be a score to post? I can honestly tell you that we did not cheat or fudge any numbers. It would have been nearly impossible to cheat at this shoot, shooting multiple targets with other groups of shooters...We all shoot 3D very seriously and go to shoots all over the state to just have fun and get ready for hunting season. Also, you say we just grabbed our medals and left....but that is when the shoot was over and we all had a 3 hour drive home. All of us had a blast at the shoot, it was VERY well put together for on indoor 3D shoot. Please don't think we cheated...or make assumptions about what kind of hunters we are...as you yourself stated it's not worth cheating for a $3 medal....those scores are what we actually shot.

Bobmuley
03-01-2011, 03:05 PM
Sometimes its just hard to imagine that someone may actually shoot better than we do...

Jerry
03-01-2011, 04:11 PM
Not knowing any of the principles in this case, I won't weigh in on the cheating issue.
But as far as ethics go, your whole life revolves around ethics.
Does anyone remember the "Golden Rule".

elkhnter1
03-01-2011, 06:22 PM
I am also one of the shooters you are talking about and you are totally wrong! I would also like to know why you think we cheated? Our scores obviuosly don't show it, 1st(1052 out of 1080), 2nd(1037 out of 1080) and 3rd (962 out of 1080). We go to shoots all over the state and there are people shooting perfect scores at almost all of them. It has never been any of us. The shoot in Havre was very well put on and we had a great time. We also met some great people. You should talk to Ben from the Havre archery club because he shot next to us the whole second day and we all had a great time. We would never even think about cheating at ANY shoot. It wouldn't be worth it for a $3 medal or even a $1000 prize. For god sake I even zeroed one of the 20 point bonuses. As was said in another post we take our shooting very seriously and just go to these shoots to have fun and get ready for hunting season. You shouldn't make assumptions about what type of hunters or people we are without ever meeting us or talking to us. We are going to a shoot in Chester on 3-13 and you are more than welcome to come shoot with us. We would be glad to have you. Let me know on here or send me a PM.

Shane
03-01-2011, 11:11 PM
The two of you saying you are of the group I guess I don't know for sure. If you are part of that group then you are not the individuals myself and other saw. The individuals that I am speaking of shot two targets wrong, which was to score a zero, and I personally witnessed one of them. The score they marked on their cards was not a zero, it was actually a 10X. The people in my group also watched one of them shoot a target in the neck which is a 5 and it was not reflected on the score card. Now this is three out of 104 total targets. What happened when we weren't looking? We greatly appreciate you guys traveling up here and supporting our club, and be sure to forward and info on shoots you guys have.

Zim
03-01-2011, 11:27 PM
Having integrity means you do the right thing when no one is looking.

I have no desire to go hunting with or do business with people who don't have integrity.

Doe Nob, Do you apply in any states that have bonus or preference points? Sadly, if you do, you are breaking your own rule because every one of them have cheated and cheapened their points afterward. Today's F&G departments and legislators certainly have no problem screwing the public, especially nonresidents. :(

Wish this weren't the truth but but is.

Doe Nob
03-02-2011, 09:13 AM
While I have no desire to apply in any state with a preference point system, my pay grade is not enough for me to buy landowner tags annually and then head up to BC and shoot a bighorn as well. So I will begrudgingly deal with the mini monopolies sticking it to the non residents. And categorically you can't trust the government to ever do the right thing, but what are the alternatives? I'd be happy if EVERY state did away with preference point systems and went to a pure lottery on all tags.

I'm not relying on them to get afield though, OTC opportunities exist for deer, elk and antelope if you know where to look and are willing to take up bow hunting.

MTNMAN5C
03-02-2011, 09:14 AM
The two of you saying you are of the group I guess I don't know for sure. If you are part of that group then you are not the individuals myself and other saw. The individuals that I am speaking of shot two targets wrong, which was to score a zero, and I personally witnessed one of them. The score they marked on their cards was not a zero, it was actually a 10X. The people in my group also watched one of them shoot a target in the neck which is a 5 and it was not reflected on the score card. Now this is three out of 104 total targets. What happened when we weren't looking? We greatly appreciate you guys traveling up here and supporting our club, and be sure to forward and info on shoots you guys have.

This was not us...but we did place in the top 3. There was a different group from Helena there on the first day that did not return to shoot the second day and they scored very well on the first day.....several of them would have blown our 2nd and 3rd place scores out of the water. I personally shot 3-5's (2 on BigFoot) and one on the bedded bighorn. I think you had us confused with one of the other groups from Helena. We stuck around the shoot the entire day both days and BSed with everyone. I was surprized so see your thread on here because we had a great time and talked with a ton of cool people.....we came home thinking everything went well, only to see this and think there was some bad-blood.

elkslayer4x5
03-06-2011, 11:32 AM
Apperantly ethics are only for the cyber world so that the next poster can always be better that the previous post. :D

anglinarcher
03-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Leadership guru/Pastor John Maxwell once was asked to write a book on "buisness ethics". He declined saying that there is no such thing as buisness ethics, just ethics. You either have them or not, and you carry those ethics into every facet of your life.

turkeyhunter60
03-08-2011, 03:47 AM
I have shot 3-D for quite Awhile, And have seen cheating going on at alot of shoots....But It goes with the territory, and the only way to resolve it, is to have designated score keeper's that they don't know.....:cool:

mthuntress
03-25-2011, 11:58 AM
Should be in every day life not just the field!!

walleyed
03-25-2011, 01:43 PM
The 3-D shoots Ive been to have been won by lets say questionable archers, but if they need to win that bad then let them its not worth it to me I just have fun gettin ready for the real thing.

sjsmallfield
03-25-2011, 04:00 PM
Here's a little story for you. When I was 18 I shot in a little 3D league close to my house. I ended up getting 3rd place. The only problem was that I shot behind the group with the two guys that got 1st and 2nd and they weren't even close to where they should have placed. I was later told by a guy that shot with them that the two guys weren't about to let a kid win the league. Oh well. Unfortunatley some people just can't handle loosing. Good ethics or not, don't let people that live their life that way keep you from doing what you love. Right or wrong it's just the way it is.