PDA

View Full Version : I have never hunted elk before...



BEETLEGUY
03-02-2011, 08:55 PM
But I want to in the worst way! Looking for any info that I can get from you seasoned elk hunters. I'm really looking for as much info as I can get. I have a few videos from Elknut and a book from CH on bivy hunting. Maybe a good state to hunt to cut my teeth on. Any elk will do;)

killz
03-03-2011, 06:45 AM
you might want to think about a place where you can get an over the counter tag. if it is your first time you don't want to waste points (if you have any) if you have never been elk hunting before. might be good to go once or twice and get the feel of things and build a few points so when you have a better idea of what is going on you can put in for a better unit. one thing to remember is in those units Colorado for example the over the counter units usually have ppl running all over the place 90% of them are road hunters in the rifle season. so get off the beaten path and you will have a better chance. if you are going with a bow and are going to try and call bulls, remember that they have probably heard every call out there a hundred times. if you can get in and kill him without calling is your best bet. the older bulls get smart quick! if they get called in and don't get killed they get call shy. hope this helps

elkmtngear
03-03-2011, 07:29 AM
DIY is awesome, but sometimes it is good to cut your teeth on elk with someone who has years of experience under their belt. We did our first few years with an outfitter on Public Land, and I think my learning curve was much faster than it would have been if I had tried to do it on my own. Otherwise, the Elknut videos, CDs, and the Playbook are some of the very best resources in the industry.

If you have any chance to do some pre-season scouting, it will greatly boost your odds of success. If you are willing to go where most people are unwilling, especially in OTC pressured units, you will most likely find elk. When you find them, pay close attention to how they are responding, "tune in" to what is going on, and adjust your game accordingly. This is something that is going to get in your blood, and will not go away, so be prepared for the addiction!

Best of Luck
Jeff

BEETLEGUY
03-03-2011, 08:30 AM
Thanks for the info. I only bow hunt (by choice) So it will be archery season that I'll go. I may have to go with a guide. Don't have any friends that hunt elk. Hope to find someone that will want to start though. I do have the Elknut dvds but plan to get the play book. It is starting to sound like Co will be one of my best choices. Any good guids out there.

elkmtngear
03-03-2011, 08:39 AM
Beetleguy,
The guy we used to go with is retired now. He was a real mentor to me, he bugled in my first bull inside 8 yards my very first season. Since then, I have taken 7 in 10 seasons in Colorado, so I think I've had pretty good success.

A lot of Bowsiters are based in Colorado, so Bowsite might be a place to start looking for Outfitters. I'm sure you can get some great deals in some good areas, considering the economy.

Here is a pic of my first bull

Best of Luck,
Jeff

BEETLEGUY
03-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Thanks Jeff

anglinarcher
03-03-2011, 12:10 PM
Sorry to hear of your new ailment. I'm sure there is some sort of medication that you could take or an ointment of sorts that might get rid of it. I also have a terminal case of elk fever. I didn't treat it like I should have once I was diagnosed and let it fester. It elevated to my current status very quickly. I can remeber it like it was yesterday. I bugled for the first time in the wilderness at about 10K elev right at the end of the day. Immediately I had a bull respond. Later that year I was fortunate enough to arrow a cow at 8 yrds.

Since then I've sunk countless dollars into the disease for upgraded gear. Lost weeks of work due to flare ups. I also can't concentrate worth a darn. So be forewarned, and welcome to the club!

BEETLEGUY
03-03-2011, 04:56 PM
Sorry to hear of your new ailment. I'm sure there is some sort of medication that you could take or an ointment of sorts that might get rid of it. I also have a terminal case of elk fever. I didn't treat it like I should have once I was diagnosed and let it fester. It elevated to my current status very quickly. I can remeber it like it was yesterday. I bugled for the first time in the wilderness at about 10K elev right at the end of the day. Immediately I had a bull respond. Later that year I was fortunate enough to arrow a cow at 8 yrds.

Since then I've sunk countless dollars into the disease for upgraded gear. Lost weeks of work due to flare ups. I also can't concentrate worth a darn. So be forewarned, and welcome to the club!

That's what I'm talk'n about!

wyoming_man
03-03-2011, 09:35 PM
When do you want to start, and what are your expectations? If you just want the experience of elk hunting with a bow to get started I recommend a cow hunt. They are usually far cheaper and easier to get. Pretty much any state becomes an option. If I had the time you could join me this year, but I have friends from back east with me this year. Start building up some points so that when you are really serious high demand units may become an option.

nv-hunter
03-03-2011, 10:59 PM
I say go with a cow hunt the first year or two. In co the cow tags are way cheaper and if you hunt the right area the tags are over the counter for cows and bulls. Depending on where you are Or has over the counter tags not a trophy state though and bow tags can still be bought otc. For me gas plays a big part on where to go I'm in Nv and can drive to Or in 5 hours so i can hunt a couple of times and animals. Also most states have deer seasons going the same time find a friend to go hunt deer

TwoBear
03-03-2011, 11:13 PM
My advice is to have fun and enjoy yourself. Take it all in and appreciate the beauty of the places were elk roam. Be aggressive and give it your best shot, but remember to enjoy the ride. Try not to get to caught up with the frustrations that can come with elk hunting as your last day on the mountain is a good as your first.

BEETLEGUY
03-04-2011, 07:38 AM
When do you want to start, and what are your expectations? If you just want the experience of elk hunting with a bow to get started I recommend a cow hunt. They are usually far cheaper and easier to get. Pretty much any state becomes an option. If I had the time you could join me this year, but I have friends from back east with me this year. Start building up some points so that when you are really serious high demand units may become an option.

I wanted to get started yesterday!lol I'm looking to do some elk hunting this year... Cow or Bull will work for me. I would like to know how to get preference points. Never have put in for points(only in Ca)

ElkNut1
03-04-2011, 08:55 AM
As far as states of choice go, CO & Idaho have respectable populations as do others but these have easily obtainable OTC tags. With a bit of research & a few well placed calls to the local biologist in areas of interest you can quickly narrow down a few possibilities to hunt. Don't wait for that special draw tag & go into it with little to no experience in archery elk hunting, take advantage of elk hunting previous to it! Here's a couple of thoughts to consider no matter where you decide to elk hunt!

KEEPING IT SIMPLE!!!

To do well on your elk hunt it isn't necessary to be the best caller out there or the most knowledgeable in the field about elk habits & mannerisms. But what you do work on, have it down well. Practice before your hunt diligently on a variety of cow sounds, pitch & tone variation, some sounds will be short & others a bit longer, include calf chirps & mews into your practice sessions.

I would seriously concern yourself with "setups" I call them "Cold or Blind Calling" setups, it's sorta like "trolling" for elk. These are very easy to master & more importantly highly effective yet very doable for newer & veteran elk hunters. When working these "setups" off roaded areas we simply pick a spot, get into the woods where we feel is a good area & sound can carry & call. If nothing productive happens go another 1/2 to 3/4 mile & repeat, continue on until you get action, it won't take long! (grin) Here's how to do it!

Do your best to setup where the wind is in your favor as to where you feel elk should approach from. Also make absolutely sure your setup is one where elk CANNOT look over your way & see where sounds are coming from but be OUTSIDE your effective range! When possible I like setting up where I have obstructions or large openings behind me where the wind could possibly give me up. Elk generally will avoid openings or these obstructions on their way over. Do not take these words for granted it is extremely important that elk cannot wind you or see where the sounds are coming from BEFORE they get into your bowrange!

Setups as this can be accomplished by yourself or with multiple hunters by being 20-30-40 yards apart. Start with light cow calling as if you are entering an area a few at a time & slowly escalate a mixture of cow/calf sounds & tones over a 2-3 minute period as if you were a small herd feeding & milling around & now have come to a "holding" area. Hopefully elk are within earshot, elk can be a mile away in any direction yet selective sounds & setups can pull them your way. By injecting a single cow giving off pre-estrus or excited sounds 3-5 on mid to low volume in a 15 second span & no more you are now showing other elk that there is a cow in the mix possibly feeling urges of estrus or coming into heat as she is a bit restless. Add some light stomping & rustling branches & brush, roll rocks to make it real now & then throughout your stay. This can attract both cows & bulls alike as elk are herd animals & can become very curious as to who these others are in the area that they're not familiar with.
After 5-10 minutes of this off & on communication of this supposed group of cows, now inject a small bull or cow bugle, (this is optional) Yes, cows bugle in small groups as this, other elk know this! At times this is all that's needed to attract curious nearby elk & can really sell the bill of goods as authentic!

If you feel the need to pick it up a notch & want to create some serious excitement go through the above cow calling sequence. This time leave out the small bull/cow bugles! Instead you are going to imitate a moving unsettled herd with the herd bull talking & scolding his cows to stay near, cows have a mind of their own & need constant attention as they feel restless. A bull will use pants, glunking, chuckling & short roundup screams to maintain control over this nervous herd. We will use this in a setup with all the above things mentioned in a 15 min calling sequence. All the other additional natural sounds must be employed here in addition to your calling. When imitating the bull sounds be sure to move around 15-20yds in a pacing action, this will really make it real along with the other sounds in play! This can really create the illusion of excitement to any elk around, they will want to join the "party"!!!!! Elk can come in thundering or extremely silent & some come in very vocal out of nowhere, so be 100% alert & stay in that spot even after winding down the calling sequence similar as you started up to 45min-1-hr. No matter the method you choose it is important to give enough time for things to develop & bring curious elk your way, stay put up to an hour after these Blind/Cold Calling Setups & have an arrow nocked, things can happen fast!

ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-04-2011, 09:13 AM
As far as states of choice go, CO & Idaho have respectable populations as do others but these have easily obtainable OTC tags. With a bit of research & a few well placed calls to the local biologist in areas of interest you can quickly narrow down a few possibilities to hunt. Don't wait for that special draw tag & go into it with little to no experience in archery elk hunting, take advantage of elk hunting previous to it! Here's a couple of thoughts to consider no matter where you decide to elk hunt!

KEEPING IT SIMPLE!!!

To do well on your elk hunt it isn't necessary to be the best caller out there or the most knowledgeable in the field about elk habits & mannerisms. But what you do work on, have it down well. Practice before your hunt diligently on a variety of cow sounds, pitch & tone variation, some sounds will be short & others a bit longer, include calf chirps & mews into your practice sessions.

I would seriously concern yourself with "setups" I call them "Cold or Blind Calling" setups, it's sorta like "trolling" for elk. These are very easy to master & more importantly highly effective yet very doable for newer & veteran elk hunters. When working these "setups" off roaded areas we simply pick a spot, get into the woods where we feel is a good area & sound can carry & call. If nothing productive happens go another 1/2 to 3/4 mile & repeat, continue on until you get action, it won't take long! (grin) Here's how to do it!

Do your best to setup where the wind is in your favor as to where you feel elk should approach from. Also make absolutely sure your setup is one where elk CANNOT look over your way & see where sounds are coming from but be OUTSIDE your effective range! When possible I like setting up where I have obstructions or large openings behind me where the wind could possibly give me up. Elk generally will avoid openings or these obstructions on their way over. Do not take these words for granted it is extremely important that elk cannot wind you or see where the sounds are coming from BEFORE they get into your bowrange!

Setups as this can be accomplished by yourself or with multiple hunters by being 20-30-40 yards apart. Start with light cow calling as if you are entering an area a few at a time & slowly escalate a mixture of cow/calf sounds & tones over a 2-3 minute period as if you were a small herd feeding & milling around & now have come to a "holding" area. Hopefully elk are within earshot, elk can be a mile away in any direction yet selective sounds & setups can pull them your way. By injecting a single cow giving off pre-estrus or excited sounds 3-5 on mid to low volume in a 15 second span & no more you are now showing other elk that there is a cow in the mix possibly feeling urges of estrus or coming into heat as she is a bit restless. Add some light stomping & rustling branches & brush, roll rocks to make it real now & then throughout your stay. This can attract both cows & bulls alike as elk are herd animals & can become very curious as to who these others are in the area that they're not familiar with.
After 5-10 minutes of this off & on communication of this supposed group of cows, now inject a small bull or cow bugle, (this is optional) Yes, cows bugle in small groups as this, other elk know this! At times this is all that's needed to attract curious nearby elk & can really sell the bill of goods as authentic!

If you feel the need to pick it up a notch & want to create some serious excitement go through the above cow calling sequence. This time leave out the small bull/cow bugles! Instead you are going to imitate a moving unsettled herd with the herd bull talking & scolding his cows to stay near, cows have a mind of their own & need constant attention as they feel restless. A bull will use pants, glunking, chuckling & short roundup screams to maintain control over this nervous herd. We will use this in a setup with all the above things mentioned in a 15 min calling sequence. All the other additional natural sounds must be employed here in addition to your calling. When imitating the bull sounds be sure to move around 15-20yds in a pacing action, this will really make it real along with the other sounds in play! This can really create the illusion of excitement to any elk around, they will want to join the "party"!!!!! Elk can come in thundering or extremely silent & some come in very vocal out of nowhere, so be 100% alert & stay in that spot even after winding down the calling sequence similar as you started up to 45min-1-hr. No matter the method you choose it is important to give enough time for things to develop & bring curious elk your way, stay put up to an hour after these Blind/Cold Calling Setups & have an arrow nocked, things can happen fast!

ElkNut1

Thanks and I'll have to read it a few more times to take it all in. Liking your video as well.

BG

Elkcrazedfrk
03-04-2011, 12:52 PM
Elknut has some great advice.. I think the number one mistake that people make is not coming to the hunt physically prepared. All your planned strategies and tactics mean nothing if you cant hang with the elk. It really doesnt matter how good of shape you think your in. Its not good enough. I've hunted with guys who are built like an ox and claim to be in the best shape of their life. After two days in the high country they are done due to the fact of lack of endurance. Strength is important. Endurance is even more improtant. So..Cardio cardio cardio. You will have a much better hunt.

Elkcrazedfrk
03-04-2011, 12:58 PM
Ohh yeah...Dont wait till August 1st to start your training. Start now and be ready by August 1st. Then keep it light the last couple weeks of august and have those muscles fresh by the opener. I'm 36 and I put myself through a pretty serious workout regimine prior to elk hunting. I'm usually good for about 4 days of really hard hunting and then need a day or two to recover.

RUTTIN
03-04-2011, 04:45 PM
I can't tell you how much Elk Nuts Playlist book has helped me to call in more bulls, just by knowing what they are saying and what to say back. If I could give one piece of advice, read the playlist many many times.

trophyhill
03-04-2011, 05:58 PM
if it were me i'd buy an OTC E/S tag. seems to me that would increase your odds of success and then you can hunt both even if it is a couple hundred more bucks. and you never know. guys have killed big bulls there first time out. but thats just me. you've already got Pauls stuff so you've already increased your odds over guys that don't have his stuff by shortening the learning curve. i know you're gonna take your calls with you and do some calling so you may as well be ready for either a cow or a bull and take whatever opportunity you have to kill an elk.

ElkNut1
03-04-2011, 07:00 PM
BeetleGuy, thanks! Which DVD do you have? I will 2nd getting in shape too that Elkcrazed mentions, it cannot be emphasized too much! (grin)

Ruttin, thank you for the feedback Sir! The ElkNuts PlayBook has served many well since its arrival.

I also should add that the methods I suggested will work for the entire month of Sept. They will work well even if the bulls aren't talking as you will be either generating curiosity with the 1st method or creating excitement with the 2nd method! Neither are extremely popular to pull herd bulls in your way, but as you mention you would be happy with any elk, these methods can accomplish this if you do your part!

If it happens you get into bulls bugling do your best to setup aprox 150-200yds out, if you can get closer because both wind direction is in your favor & cover is available then do so. Once setup use the 2nd method, it is designed to create interest & excitement, you most generally will pull in spikes or younger branched bulls 1st as they have that teenager mentality & will want to check you out. If with another hunter have the shooter up from the designated caller aprox 30-60yds with good wind where you expect the elk to show. With the shooter in position & an arrow nocked the shooter can go ahead & add a 3-4 nice whiny cow mews himself as the caller in back gives off his calling sequence, then the shooter doesn't want to call anymore, the seed is planted & his job is done, he no longer whats to give away his position to oncoming elk as the rest of the calling will be by the designated caller. The caller should also keep his eyes peeled & an arrow nocked as many times a bull can come in silent from the back-door or from his side so be alert!---- If the shooter needs to stop his elk for the shot there is no better sound than the Popping/Nervous grunt & with practice this can be done with ones voice or a mouth reed keeping ones hands free!

If you are alone go through your sequence rather quickly as you gauge the vocalness of a bull coming your way as you will want to move up from your spot you called from aprox 30yds or so & setup & DO NOT CALL from that spot other that to stop an elk for the shot! Allow oncoming elk to go into search mode from the sounds they heard! Be patient & stay put & do not move around or get figidity or you will be spotted! Stay there a good 30 min or so!


Of course there's always sitting water or an active wallow! If in a new area you may waste too much time looking for such places so go with the Blind/Cold calling setups! Good Luck!

ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-04-2011, 09:46 PM
ElkNut, I have Bugling Bulls and Beyond 1-4. Thought that might be a good start. Want to get your play book as well. I have to wait till I have rebuilt my Euro mount (beetle) and hydro dipping biz back up. Late spring I should be up and running again... After that, WATCH OUT ELK! Or maybe I should be watching out for my wife lol J/K She wants me to take some time out in the woods...She does support me in a lot of the things that I do...

One the physical side of things, I do spend a lot of time trail running and I was doing a lot of weight training (getting away from that) Going to start doing more core training and using my body weight (225 #s @ 6')to achieve my goals. Puts me in a better state of mind. I do hike, but not enough. So I will adding that to what I already do. Planning to build my strength with adding weight to my pack. Heck I'll even put my 5 year old in my pack...

I think my only concern is that I will not be able to get all my gear that I need and have any money to actually go on an elk trip. If there is a will there is always away. I will keep my head up and do a lot of praying. I must have something I can sell! No, my kids are not for sale!!! Actually, what am I looking at for gear. I have my bow, arrows, and all that. I need my pack, and what should I have in my pack? Say a bivy setup. Take my camp everywhere I go... Cost on that? How about an otc tag, cost? Calls? Game bags?

BEETLEGUY
03-04-2011, 10:23 PM
Thanks for the pm's Just figured out I had messages lol

Gamehog
03-05-2011, 10:24 AM
Hey Beetleguy I'm in the same boat. Never been on an elk hunt and hunted myself. Last season I had the chance to go and film a couple of guys who were lucky enough to draw a northern California Roosevelt tag. We kill two bulls one being a 364 B&C bull. I'm hooked big time and can't wait for the day I get to go on my own hunt.

BEETLEGUY
03-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Soon, very soon!

ElkNut1
03-06-2011, 07:41 AM
Yes, the 4-Pack will aid you quite a bit! Vol-4 Worse Than Wolves will highlight much of what I shared in the first posts as to the sounds to use. Take nothing for granted in your sound choice, do lots of practicing before hitting the elkwoods as you would do in your bodily training, it appears you are on the right track bud!!! At nearly 56 I train year around to stay in what I call "elk shape" it's that important of a goal that I stick too so I don't get old & fat! (grin) Keep up the good work!!!

As far as your costs go, if money is a serious issue hunt from your rig, use your area of camp choices as your mobile base camp. You do not have to bivy in order to hunt & kill elk. As an example my Son & I hunt much of this way as does the other 3 members of the ElkNut Crew. My Son took his 18th archery bull this year, I've had the privilege to call in everyone & he too as called in many for me. All those bulls were taken OTC public land hunts & all were hunted from our base-camp. This means we did not bivy in for any of those elk. Keep in mind though that we hit it hard, we have no issues going in 3-6 miles one way on foot as we hunt & call for location for elk. Once there we will use very similar techniques as I suggested for you. Point is you can effectively hunt elk without bivy style hunting, this will cut down on your costs of buying special lightweight equipment that you can start saving up for as your monies become more available in future hunts, purchase things a little at a time & you will see it won't take long but in the mean time you are still elk hunting! Hope this helps out!

Here's a list that I take with us on all our style of hunts. If we bivy then we add the tent, sleeping bag, food & cooking stuff etc. but the things on this list go with us no matter the hunt!


Here is the list of essentials that I highly recommend! I have not adjusted the weight & items for a few years now; it appears to be perfect for our hunting style!

Water Bladder, min 60oz 100oz is Better--
4 Elk Bags-
Wyoming Pack Saw-
Orange flagging tape-
Food for all day-
Back up energy bars 5-
Space Blanket-A Good One!
Large plastic garbage bag- can be used for many things including a shelter or work surface!
1 25' & 2 50' 1/4" nylon rope-
Water Purifier Carbon Straw
Roll of Athletic tape-Emergency Use
Celox, Stops Severe Bleeding
Ziplock bag of matches,lighter,fish hooks,flies,20' fishing line,small packet magnesium flakes-
2-knives & carbide sharpener-
small leatherman-
mini mag & petzel headlamp flashlights-
4-extra AA batteries, fits all my units-
Garmin GPS 130-
Compass & maps-
small notebook & pen in ziplock bag-
6-rounds .357 spare bullets-
Extra longbow string-
Eye glasses-
Baggie with aspirin, benadryl for bee stings, vicadin for bad muscle/leg pulls-
Disposable camera,36photos-

All this goes into my Eberlestock X2 for all day hunts or 2200 Pack for 2-4 day bivy hunts! Both have outside the pack meat carrying capabilities! It weighs 14#-15#

ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-06-2011, 09:20 AM
Thanks ElkNut1. I was looking at the Blue Widow pack. Love the feel of it. I noticed that a range finder wasn't part of your list. Do you use one?

ElkNut1
03-07-2011, 07:35 AM
I've never used one to kill an elk, but when I'm hunting with a compound I do carry one as does my son! It's not an essential part of our pack so I didn't mention it! I just know though that one of these days it will pay off! (grin) For rifle hunts however it has come in very handy!! Most elk we kill are in the 25 yd average but never past 40 it seems so in most cases a rangefinder isn't necessary! Anyway that's how it seems to work out for us! Thanks!

ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-07-2011, 07:46 AM
I've never used one to kill an elk, but when I'm hunting with a compound I do carry one as does my son! It's not an essential part of our pack so I didn't mention it! I just know though that one of these days it will pay off! (grin) For rifle hunts however it has come in very handy!! Most elk we kill are in the 25 yd average but never past 40 it seems so in most cases a rangefinder isn't necessary! Anyway that's how it seems to work out for us! Thanks!

ElkNut1

Do you have any experience with the Blue Widow pack?

ElkNut1
03-07-2011, 08:45 AM
Yes, the Blue Widow is a great pack & compliment to the X2. Watch this clip here & you will see both the X2 & Blue Widow packs loaded with gear & quarters. The other pack is a Kelty frame pack because Jerry does not have a pack like ours YET! (grin)

The Blue Widow is the one to the far left in the 1st photo where the Packs are shown< you'll notice there's not a big difference between that one & the X2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxpBrHzip-w

ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-07-2011, 09:07 AM
So, the x2 would be all the pack I need?

ElkNut1
03-07-2011, 09:25 AM
Yes, as long as you're not interested in staying out more that 3 days & 2 nights at a time? If you want to stay longer then the Blue Widow would be a better choice! For my Son & I we use the X2 95% of the time! We hauled 4 bulls off the mountain with them last year! It's a durable pack & we'll use them this year again! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSnXsJqPd5w

This is another clip with me in it & Larry who's a Crew member here!

ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-07-2011, 04:46 PM
I want a pack that will do short trips but be able to live out of for up to a week.

ElkNut1
03-08-2011, 07:07 AM
That's why I own more than 1 pack! (grin) The X2 for up to a couple of days & the Badlands 2200 or the Blue Widow would be good for a week! You just have to minimize your items to the bare necessities, which you should do anyway! Just think what the majority of your hunting will be & make sure you are equipped in that area! For us it's all day hunts & the X2 is top pick for us!

ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-08-2011, 02:49 PM
That's why I own more than 1 pack! (grin) The X2 for up to a couple of days & the Badlands 2200 or the Blue Widow would be good for a week! You just have to minimize your items to the bare necessities, which you should do anyway! Just think what the majority of your hunting will be & make sure you are equipped in that area! For us it's all day hunts & the X2 is top pick for us!

ElkNut1

So what you're telling me is; there is no pack that does it all lol Looks like I'll be spending around $800 just on packs:(

ElkNut1
03-08-2011, 05:17 PM
Well, let's see! Should we hunt with a pack on for just an all day hunt that is capable of carrying items that would last us a week? Hmmm! (grin) It could be a bit big but that Blue Widow is close to doing both, check them out!

The X2 is only 139.00
ElkNut1

BEETLEGUY
03-08-2011, 06:56 PM
Well, let's see! Should we hunt with a pack on for just an all day hunt that is capable of carrying items that would last us a week? Hmmm! (grin) It could be a bit big but that Blue Widow is close to doing both, check them out!

The X2 is only 139.00
ElkNut1

I'll send you a pm