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View Full Version : Best procedure for mounting a base?



ORBucksBullsBears5
01-14-2012, 03:32 PM
I was just hoping for some input on the best/correct way to mount a base to an action? I've heard things about using loctite, but also to be careful because there are certain kinds that are better than others. I figured it would be best to start my own thread. Thanks for the help

kcaves
01-14-2012, 04:50 PM
Well if u don't ever want to take ur base off, use red loc tite, blue loc tite, u can normally get loose


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.750203,-105.389054

Drhorsepower
01-14-2012, 05:26 PM
The cheapest way to do a good job is to epoxy them together if you are never going to take them off. Take a dremel and cut small "x"s into te top of your action, do the same to bottom of your base, then epoxy them together and screw it down.

The BEST way to do it is epoxy and use roll pins to secure your bases, or just roll pins, that involves taking your bases and action to a smith and Having them do machining.

I do the epoxy and dremel thing. It's cheaper and easier.

Bitterroot Bulls
01-14-2012, 08:18 PM
Another good way is to bed the base with epoxy. It is similar to Dr. Horsepower's method, but does not require scoring the receiver, and the base can later be removed easily. Nice if you ever want to sell the rifle.

Step-by-step:

1. Remove action from rifle and place in a vise.

2. Degrease the base and receiver area completely with non-chlorine brake cleaner.

3. Tape the entire action with painters tape everywhere you don't want epoxy to get. Leave the portion of the receiver where the base will contact exposed.

4. Apply a good layer of release agent (Kiwi neutral shoe polish is a good one) to the exposed part of the receiver. Apply it to the inside of the screw holes. Cover the mounting screws as well. Polish the receiver to a shiny surface, leaving a thin, even layer.

5. Rough up the contact areas of the base with heavy sandpaper or light dremel work.

6. Mix your epoxy (Devcon Steel, Marine-Tex, JB Weld, etc.) according to the instructions (mix for a long time) and apply a thin, even layer to your base surface. Make sure to stay a little awayfrom the holes in the receiver.

7. Place the base on the release agent treated receiver surface. Use the mounting screws as indexing tools only. Screw in the mounting screws just enough to find resistance. Do not torque.

8. Excess epoxy will flow out the sides. Clean this up with q-tips and WD-40 as it comes out. When it no longer comes out, you are ready to wait.

9. Wait 24 hours. After 24 hours, remove the screws, and tap the base with a peace of wood. It will pop off, and the bottom of the base will be a perfect match to the receiver surface. There will be no damage to the receiver.

Disclaimer:

I am not a gunsmith. This is how I do it. There are no guarantees. You might glue your base to your receiver. You might get epoxy somewhere you did not want to. There are other ways. Attempt at your own risk!

Drhorsepower
01-14-2012, 10:15 PM
Oh yeah, same disclaimer for me too!

jay
01-14-2012, 11:19 PM
The most I've ever done to a base is Blue Loctite if even that...all I use are Leupold bases and rings and have NEVER had a scope come loose. The epoxy process would obviously be stronger than what I do, but I have not had any problems...

Bitterroot Bulls
01-15-2012, 07:15 AM
The most I've ever done to a base is Blue Loctite if even that...all I use are Leupold bases and rings and have NEVER had a scope come loose. The epoxy process would obviously be stronger than what I do, but I have not had any problems...

For me, it isn't about having the scope coming loose. It is about stress-free mounting for maximum consistency, in any condition. Base mounting holes in receivers are not often perfectly aligned, especially on Remingtons. The mounting surfaces on the receiver and the base aren't a perfect match either. Bedding the base remedies these problems, and minimizes the torque on your scope, which maximizes its performance as well.

You don't need to do this to get good performance out of your rifle, but it helps maximize your rifle's consistent, reliable accuracy.

Ikeepitcold
01-15-2012, 09:32 AM
The most I've ever done to a base is Blue Loctite if even that...all I use are Leupold bases and rings and have NEVER had a scope come loose. The epoxy process would obviously be stronger than what I do, but I have not had any problems...

I also only use Leupold bases and scopes. I have used super glue to lock everything together and screws can be removed and bases too without any damage.

Bitterroot Bulls
01-15-2012, 06:12 PM
I bedded an EGW rail on my Savage 110 project today with Devcon bedding compound. I'll post a pic if I can if I can get it off the receiver tomorrow.

jay
01-16-2012, 08:44 AM
For me, it isn't about having the scope coming loose. It is about stress-free mounting for maximum consistency, in any condition. Base mounting holes in receivers are not often perfectly aligned, especially on Remingtons. The mounting surfaces on the receiver and the base aren't a perfect match either. Bedding the base remedies these problems, and minimizes the torque on your scope, which maximizes its performance as well.

You don't need to do this to get good performance out of your rifle, but it helps maximize your rifle's consistent, reliable accuracy.

I see your point...

Bitterroot Bulls
01-16-2012, 10:55 AM
Well, it came off nicely today. The screws came out easy (thanks to plenty of release agent). I put a block of wood against the back of the base. A sharp, short tap with a hammer, and it popped right off. The receiver was completely untouched. Looked like new. I totally forgot to take a pic of the bedded pads before mounting the rings and scope. Sorry. I would take it apart and take a photo, but I have it all like I wanted it, and troqued to spec. The base is completely true. I checked the TPS rings for contact, to see if I needed to lap or bed them, but nope, 100% contact. I think a whole lot of people could save lapping their rings if they bedded their bases.

I will be doing this again soon to another rifle, and might take step-by-step photos, if anyone is interested in seeing them ... and I remember to take them.

ORBucksBullsBears5
01-16-2012, 09:36 PM
Thanks for all the helpful advice guys! It sounds like there are plenty of ways to do it.
Bitterroot : I would like to see some pics of the next one you do. Also what do you mean by "lapping rings"?

Drhorsepower
01-16-2012, 09:56 PM
Thanks for all the helpful advice guys! It sounds like there are plenty of ways to do it.
Bitterroot : I would like to see some pics of the next one you do. Also what do you mean by "lapping rings"?

Oh we have alot to teach you. The best way to see what lapping is is YouTube it. I am sure there are plenty of videos out there most likely.

Lapping is making the scope rings perfectly or as close to perfectly round, they can be oval shaped but not realize it. It ensures constant and consistent contact with your scope. It also doesn't put stress on your scope.

Bitterroot Bulls
01-16-2012, 10:00 PM
Thanks for all the helpful advice guys! It sounds like there are plenty of ways to do it.
Bitterroot : I would like to see some pics of the next one you do. Also what do you mean by "lapping rings"?

I will try to remember to get those pics. I might just make a video, and post it.

Lapping rings involves using a lapping tool and paste abrasive to remove small amounts of material from the contact surfaces of the rings, so that most of the ring surface contacts the scope tube, providing the most secure hold and reducing unwanted stress on the scope.

Most quality rings are machined to tight tolerances, and don't require lapping on their own, but two part bases are rarely installed in perfect alignment, due to inaccuracy in the drilling and tapping of the receiver. This hole misalignment can also cause one piece bases to twist or warp to conform to the receiver holes, which causes the rings to go out of alignment, and require lapping.

Bedding a one piece base minimizes or eliminates receiver hole misalignment, and proper ring alignment follows. You can bed two piece bases in alignment by using a jig designed to align the bases, like a TPS "basebed" system.

http://www.basebed.com

ORBucksBullsBears5
01-17-2012, 12:55 PM
Ok, that makes sense. I realize that I have a lot to learn about all the technical things having to do with rifles which is why I ask the questions to make sure I do it right. I've spent most of my time with archery equipment, which is why I really appreciate all the help.

Drhorsepower
01-17-2012, 01:58 PM
I didn't mean it to sound mean. I'm sorry man if I made it seem that way.

Here are the things I do to every rifle I build for myself or my friends/family. Now this is what I think is minimum necessary to build an accurate rifle, it is my opinion and some other peoples may differ. Right, wrong, indifferent.

Trigger-30-32oz. That is my preferance, a little light for most people I know.

Bed the action. On my weapons I buy a new stock with a full length bedding block if money is there to do it. If not I will install pillars at the very minimum.

Bed(procedure mentioned above) the scope base, I also buy one piece bases, that is my preference because it is one piece and obviously one piece is stronger than two pieces. I also bed it like I do because once I mount the base, I am never going to take it off, there is no reason.

Lap the rings for the above mentioned reasons.

I also bed the trigger guard.

I torque everything and I write down what everything is torqued to so I repeat the specs if I ever break it down.

Last but not least is brew up the perfect load choosing the bullet first.

Hope this helps, I know a lot of people do not do what I do but it works for me and sure as heck beats the big price tag I have seen on custom guns. I know that having an extremely accurate rifle is not a priority for most,shooting a stock gun and factory ammo is perfectly suitable, I mean really if you shoot 1 moa groups that is more than enough inside 300-400 yards in my book. Building accurate rifles is a hobby to me and I am passionate about it. I hope this helps.

jay
01-19-2012, 11:24 AM
Don't feel bad ORBBB5, i'm taking notes right along with you. Very good thread I'm learning alot myself. DRHP & BB thanks for being generous with your knowledge of these techniques. Like I stated before, all I've ever done is use the Leupold rings and bases and have never had problems, but have never really read into it as far as you guys, and it makes total sense to me. Is all this necessary to have an accurate rifle, probably not, but I see how it can eliminate many factors that can make an OK gun shoot that much better. Lets just say you guys might be getting some pm's from me on how to do mine...thanks

Bitterroot Bulls
01-19-2012, 02:21 PM
Don't feel bad ORBBB5, i'm taking notes right along with you. Very good thread I'm learning alot myself. DRHP & BB thanks for being generous with your knowledge of these techniques. Like I stated before, all I've ever done is use the Leupold rings and bases and have never had problems, but have never really read into it as far as you guys, and it makes total sense to me. Is all this necessary to have an accurate rifle, probably not, but I see how it can eliminate many factors that can make an OK gun shoot that much better. Lets just say you guys might be getting some pm's from me on how to do mine...thanks

The secret custom gunmakers don't want you to know is that just about any factory rifle is capable of custom-level accuracy with a little work.

1. Properly bed the action in the stock.
2. Properly adjust the trigger.
3. True the action surfaces.
4. Properly mount the sighting optic.
5. Find an accurate load.

If these steps are taken with precision, you would be surprised what your rifle is capable of. 1,4, and 5 can be undertaken by just about anyone that is careful in how they approach a task. Unless you are a precision machinist, leave 3 to a qualified gunsmith. If you have a user-adjustable trigger you can do number 2 as well, but if it needs stoning/polishing head back to your smith.

Of course, the disclaimer applies! Attempt at your own risk.

ORBucksBullsBears5
01-20-2012, 08:49 AM
Drhp don't worry I didn't take it that way. I realize that I don't know that much about it and want to do it the best way to maximize the potential of my gun which is why I appreciate all the help.

Bitterroot Bulls
01-29-2012, 04:54 PM
Allright guys,

I bedded a rail on my Model 7 today. I filmed the process and will cut a Youtube video of it. After I had it done and ready to cure, I though, "Why not?" and bedded the rings to my scope also. I need video of breaking them from the epoxy tomorrow, but then I will get the video together.

Bitterroot Bulls
01-29-2012, 06:11 PM
Well, some bad news about the video.

Apparently the most important file, that of the actual epoxy placement, and base mounting, was corrupted. So I am going to give it another shot when I do another rifle tomorrow.

UUUGGGHHH.

Jerry
01-29-2012, 06:26 PM
OK, I admit it! I'm a coward, I take it to my favorite gunsmith!

Bitterroot Bulls
01-31-2012, 02:25 PM
Allright guys,

The video is up:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv5KCXchSgY&feature=plcp&context=C3f33f46UDOEgsToPDskJBgHKakYGJuyQfilgZ0Kqv

Let me know what you think!

Kevin Root
01-31-2012, 02:47 PM
Nicely done Bitterroot Bulls. The video turned out very nice. Sound, narration and background music made for a very nice how to video.

Drhorsepower
01-31-2012, 02:57 PM
Great video bb. Thanks for posting. Very beautiful weapon!

jay
01-31-2012, 05:12 PM
does anyone know where i can find a one piece base for a browning xbolt?

Drhorsepower
01-31-2012, 05:20 PM
does anyone know where i can find a one piece base for a browning xbolt?

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&sortby=1&itemsperpage=20&newcategorydimensionid=7319

That's the only thing I can find, I think it might be a design issue for a traditional one piece base.

Bitterroot Bulls
01-31-2012, 06:09 PM
does anyone know where i can find a one piece base for a browning xbolt?

Is it a short or long action?

I see EGW has rails available for the short action.

http://www.egwguns.com/browning/

X bolts are still pretty new. You might want to contact EGW or TPS directly and see what they can do for you.

Colorado Cowboy
01-31-2012, 06:43 PM
Brownells has a lot of gunsmithing supplies.

packer58
01-31-2012, 08:19 PM
BB,

You get an A+ on the instructional video, well thought out and very clean job..........

jay
02-02-2012, 11:20 AM
can you get more adjustment on eye relief with a rail system? On the vortex scope i recently mounted on my 06 I have it all the way back and still don't get the full view clear on the scope, i have to move forward.

Bitterroot Bulls
02-02-2012, 11:58 AM
can you get more adjustment on eye relief with a rail system? On the vortex scope i recently mounted on my 06 I have it all the way back and still don't get the full view clear on the scope, i have to move forward.

Jay,

Rails do provide the most flexible options for mounting a scope for proper eye relief, among other advantages.

However, if you are having trouble getting the scope back far enough towards your eye, that is often due to having a stock with too long a length of pull (LOP). If this is the case, a good stockworking gunsmith can do some measuring and cut down your stock to an optimum LOP.

ORBucksBullsBears5
02-05-2012, 06:22 PM
Bitterroot,

Thats a great video, thanks for posting it. I am going to be mounting my base that way. This will be saving me a lot of trouble because this weekend I was tinkering around with my gun(rem 700) and my nightforce base and found out that the top of the action isn't true. At first i was wondering if it was the base so i took it to a friends machining shop and its perfect. With the base on my gun and using a level the bubble was on opposite sides when going from the front of the base to the rear of the base. My friend has the same gun and we put the base on his to check for the same problem but it was perfect. I've heard of remingtons having this problem.

Bitterroot Bulls
02-05-2012, 09:11 PM
Bitterroot,

Thats a great video, thanks for posting it. I am going to be mounting my base that way. This will be saving me a lot of trouble because this weekend I was tinkering around with my gun(rem 700) and my nightforce base and found out that the top of the action isn't true. At first i was wondering if it was the base so i took it to a friends machining shop and its perfect. With the base on my gun and using a level the bubble was on opposite sides when going from the front of the base to the rear of the base. My friend has the same gun and we put the base on his to check for the same problem but it was perfect. I've heard of remingtons having this problem.

You're right. It is a common problem, with a lot of makes, but more often with Rems. Your problem (twisting the rail) is more of a bugger than others (receiver hole spacing). You are going to want to use very little torque when bedding the rail. This will keep you from just bedding the rail with the twist. Finger tight with the short end of the wrench should do it. Make sure to check the rail with your levels before letting the epoxy cure.

Good luck, and remember, my disclaimer applies!

ORBucksBullsBears5
02-12-2012, 10:03 PM
I decided to call remington about the problem and they emailed me a prepaid label so i could send the gun back to them to fix the holes. Once i get it back i will mount the base. Hopefully it won't take them very long to fix.

Drhorsepower
02-12-2012, 10:06 PM
I decided to call remington about the problem and they emailed me a prepaid label so i could send the gun back to them to fix the holes. Once i get it back i will mount the base. Hopefully it won't take them very long to fix.

That's good customer service. Right on!

Bitterroot Bulls
02-13-2012, 06:57 AM
I decided to call remington about the problem and they emailed me a prepaid label so i could send the gun back to them to fix the holes. Once i get it back i will mount the base. Hopefully it won't take them very long to fix.

This is great!

Of course you will still definitely want to bed the rail, as the only way they can fix the holes is to weld, heat treat, grind, polish, drill, and tap for the new holes. The new holes will certainly be square to the bore, and in line, but the dimesions of the receiver surface are going to be less than perfect due to the grinding and polishing process.

Keep us updated.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-02-2012, 12:49 PM
So they tried to deliver my gun yesterday which makes it a 2 week 6 day turn around since I first mailed it. From what I understand they put a new action on it and said I was getting my muzzle break back. Hopefully that means it's the same barrel and break on a new action but I guess I'll find out tonight. I had to pay ups a $5 for change of delivery because I work mon-fri 8-5 so I'm having I delivered somewhere else so it can get signed for.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-09-2012, 01:34 PM
So here's what's going on, I got my gun back and the first thing I noticed is that they sent me a cometely different action and barrel which the action needed to be replaced but the barrel did not so now I'm out $200 for the muzzle break. They did return it in a bag but I would have to pay for reinstallation. Next thing I noticed is that the the barrel is dirty/greasy. So I decided to look a little closer and found several spots of RUST. This is redicolous! So I call and they tell me that there can't be rust on the gun. Do they think I was kidding? They tell me it'll take over a month to get a new one back because they are on back order and a month and a half for a refund after they evaluate it. So I decided to send it back to get a refund as long as they don't try and screw me over more. Guess I'm going archery for spring bear.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-09-2012, 01:38 PM
I'll post some pics later

Drhorsepower
03-09-2012, 07:36 PM
Wow that sucks man. I would like to see pictures. That's not right of them.

Bitterroot Bulls
03-09-2012, 07:43 PM
OBBB5,

I don't know what is going on with your rifle. I do know that sometimes the coating applied to a new rifle will have little spots that look like rust. It is always good to totally degrease a new rifle (after pulling the barrelled action from the stock, of course), and put on a thin coat of Remoil. If the spots aren't easily removed, or have some pitting behind them, then it is definitely rust, and I would be pissed.

Drhorsepower
03-09-2012, 08:46 PM
OBBB5,

I don't know what is going on with your rifle. I do know that sometimes the coating applied to a new rifle will have little spots that look like rust. It is always good to totally degrease a new rifle (after pulling the barrelled action from the stock, of course), and put on a thin coat of Remoil. If the spots aren't easily removed, or have some pitting behind them, then it is definitely rust, and I would be pissed.

Yeah I could see surface rust which is no big deal. We need pics!

bigshot
03-09-2012, 10:55 PM
When ever I obtain a new or used rifle, the first thing I do is remove the barreled action from the stock and give it a Barricade silicone bath. That stuff is awesome!! It eats any surface rust off, and provides a protection layer from future moisture. It also makes the action buttery smooth, anyone familier with it.

oops, time for a new thread.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-11-2012, 10:48 PM
2969
here's one

Drhorsepower
03-11-2012, 10:51 PM
Wow. That is just surface rust which is no big deal but is still not acceptable for a new rifle from a reputable manufacturer.

sjsmallfield
03-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Wow. That is just surface rust which is no big deal but is still not acceptable for a new rifle from a reputable manufacturer.

No kidding. I would be pissed if that were my gun. That is just poor customer service if you ask me.

Bitterroot Bulls
03-12-2012, 04:19 PM
Surface rust on the follower spring? Not unheard of in a new rifle, but if they sent you back your old stock, it is likely they returned the follower, follower spring, magazine housing, bottom metal, and trigger all from your original rifle. That wouldn't be a big deal to me, as they are mild steel springs and get some surface rust if you look at them sideways.

Were there were spots of rust on the new barrelled action? That would be disconcerting.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-12-2012, 08:24 PM
My computer was having issues last night. I'll try and post the other pics tomorrow night.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-14-2012, 08:49 PM
2980
more rust

Bitterroot Bulls
03-14-2012, 08:55 PM
OBBB5,

It is hard to tell from the photo, but that doesn't look like rust. Did it clean off easy?

Looks like stainless steel as well.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-14-2012, 09:06 PM
2981
it looks like they tried to clean it off before they sent it to me and these are the pits. i could be wrong though.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-14-2012, 09:17 PM
Bitterroot,
it didn't clean off, but i didn't try real hard either. I'm positive it was rust, i even showed a few friends before i called remington to get a few other opinions. I just kept getting more mad as i found more spots all over this "new" gun. I may be making a mountian out of a mole hill but since i bought a brand new gun that is where i was holding my expectations. Either way i sent it back and i told them i wanted a refund. It looks like my origional purpose for this thread (mounting a base) will have to be postponed for a little while.

Bitterroot Bulls
03-14-2012, 09:21 PM
That is a real bummer OBBB5,

I don't know how it happened, especially being stainless steel, but on the bright side ...

You get to go gun shopping.

I hope it turns out better the next time.

ORBucksBullsBears5
03-14-2012, 09:26 PM
Thanks Bitterroot. I'm not sure how it would happen on a stainless gun either, when i talked with remington they told me this gun was on backorder and it would be months before it could be replaced so im wondering if they tried to fix mine with a barrel and action that was just laying around or something or maybe used.