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View Full Version : Should felons be able to bowhunt Utah?



HuskyMusky
02-01-2012, 05:16 PM
In most states felons can bowhunt, not Utah however.

Martha Stewart can't own a gun, what her crime has to do with guns/violence is beyond me, and why she wouldn't be allowed to bowhunt Utah doesn't make much sense if you ask me.

anglinarcher
02-10-2012, 02:20 PM
Martha Stewart Hunts!? How come I don't see camo pattern bedsheets, and a recipe book specifically for wild game??:o


J/K....Common sense tells me if they have aleady paid there debt to society and don't have a history for violence there should be no problem.

jenbickel
02-10-2012, 07:07 PM
I definitely think that as long as the crime is not violence related and they did their time, they should be able to bowhunt. I would love to bowhunt with Martha Stewart, I'd bring the drinks if she brought the snacks!! yummmm.. Could you imagine eating a 5 layer chocolate cake with raspberries so lightly baked in and some sort of truffles on top and fudge melted over everything.. Beats the heck out of the stale jerky I usually take.

Bitterroot Bulls
02-10-2012, 10:14 PM
I don't think I am going to spend too much time worrying about the hunting rights of felons.

purebowhunting
02-10-2012, 10:36 PM
Hunting is a privilege, everyone knows the consequences of a felony before its committed, should take away as many right and privileges as possible.

jenbickel
02-10-2012, 10:42 PM
Hunting is a privilege, everyone knows the consequences of a felony before its committed, should take away as many right and privileges as possible.

Oooo!! Good point!! Maybe I should think with my brain instead of my stomach.

Kevin Root
02-10-2012, 10:51 PM
I don't think I am going to spend too much time worrying about the hunting rights of felons.

I'm with you Bitterroot Bulls. I don't want to seem insensitive to felons but I kind of see it as, when you screw up that bad, you lose some rights.

Drhorsepower
02-10-2012, 10:57 PM
I'm surprised there is this many posts on this topic....

Jon Boy
02-10-2012, 11:30 PM
I have mixed feelings on the topic. I know a guy in his 30s that hung out with the wrong people and made some bad decisions when he was 18 (burglary, grand theft). He did his time and paid his fines and now is a hard working law abiding citizen. Works 40 hours a week and hasnt had a run in with the law since. He still cant possess or a hunt with a firearm, and apparently cant hunt in utah with a bow either. The point is some people do screw up and do stupid things and pay for it, and they learn from it, thats the point of the criminal justice system (even though it doesnt seem like it all of the time)

Joe Hulburt
02-11-2012, 09:44 AM
The only problem I have with felons being able to bowhunt and NOT rifle hunt is that here in Oregon at least is forces all ex-felons become bowhunters. I see where there could be some potential for that to be a problem. Most people are good and will try and change and stop breaking laws but a small percentage will not and they will be breaking laws as archery hunters and consequently give us all a bad rap. Of course the reality is a lot of those lifetime criminals will just poach without even trying to pretend to be a legit hunter so I may be making more of it than need be.

Montana
02-11-2012, 10:54 AM
I play by the rules to respect myself, my profession, my employer and most of all my family. It is how I was raised and how I raise my family... Respect yourself and others. And along with this comes rewards in all aspects of life. And if you don't then you are not rewarded.

So therefore... No, I do not :)

HuskyMusky
02-11-2012, 04:04 PM
I find many people seriously lacking empathy these days. Also many people with the do anything wrong no matter how miniscule and their attitude is lock'em up and throw away the key forever! I'm quite certain most people have done something wrong, whether intentioned or not at some point in their life.

Good/great people do make mistakes, even if just once in their lives. ie, the 50yo guy who was busted at 18 for marijuana, the 19yo who hooks up with his hs girlf and becomes a sex offender/felon, white collar criminals, mind you martha stewart wasn't a felon for insider trading but rather lying to a fbi agent! which police officers are legally allowed to lie all they want to us, but the moment we lie to an fbi agent it becomes a felony?!?!

So sure if you think "lying to an fbi agent" should mean you can never own a gun/hunt/bowhunt in some states again in your life, then I'd have to say you're logic and empahty is lacking.

Life isn't black and white, it's grey.

HuskyMusky
02-11-2012, 04:17 PM
just caught this statistic, 4 million of the 5.3million felons in the US are not incarcerated.

BOHNTR
02-11-2012, 06:11 PM
If convicted of a felony......no firearms and/or voting privileges.

In God We Trust
02-11-2012, 06:43 PM
If it is not a violent felony than yes to owning guns and hunting. I went through a rough patch when I was 17-18. I was never charged with a felony mind you but I am of the mind that people make mistakes from time to time. Those of you that say otherwise are lying to yourselves. Many people have paid for their non violent crimes and are now productive contributing citizens. They have already been punished and should not continue to be punished for the rest of their lives. A little level headed thinking would fix a lot of problems these days.

T43
02-11-2012, 08:05 PM
Lets see husky musky so far your posts basically state that you think non residents shouldn't have to pay high tag prices and now your siding with convicted felons about hunting privileges. Next you post defending someone who lied to authorities about committing a felony and try to make the FBI out to be the bad guys. I just hope our tag prices are to high to worry about bumping into a convicted felon with a weapon in the middle of nowhere. We all know the rules why should we make exceptions for those who choose not to follow them?

Montana
02-11-2012, 09:24 PM
So I actually had to look this up because I felt like I was missing something here... The post is about a Felony right? A FELONY...
Below is what I found....

Examples of Felony Crimes:

Murder
Rape
Arson
Treason
Terrorism
Kidnapping
Burglary
Generally, crimes that offend predominant morals

Kevin Root
02-11-2012, 09:59 PM
So I actually had to look this up because I felt like I was missing something here... The post is about a Felony right? A FELONY...
Below is what I found....

Examples of Felony Crimes:

Murder
Rape
Arson
Treason
Terrorism
Kidnapping
Burglary
Generally, crimes that offend predominant morals

I'm reading this the same as you Montana. We are talking about a felony, not a petty offense or a misdemeanor. None of us are blameless or perfect but we do have to live/pay for the consequences of our actions.

Petty Offense: In short, they are misdemeanors that never warrant any time in jail.
Misdemeanor: A misdemeanor is considered a crime of low seriousness.
Felony: Felonies are considered the most serious types of crimes.

If we forgive every criminal, or grant clemency for every criminal act, we would be living in anarchy. There are consequences for our actions. Forgiveness does not necessarily mean all consequences of past behavior disappear.

Midwest to Outwest
02-11-2012, 11:12 PM
Everyone should have to deal with the consequences of their actions...That said, every crime has its punishment that is theoreticly paid for in fines or jail time as determined by the court. I do not have the list of "what is a felony and what isn't." Maybe there should be no exceptions but maybe some debts to society should be able to be paid in full with the person then getting to start fresh. No doubt some crimes should carry a lifetime ban from certain privileges. Doesn't really affect me, but I'm sure there are some 'felons' out there who can be great sportsmen and an asset to the hunting community. Depends who they are, NOW.

Montana
02-12-2012, 06:57 AM
Everyone should have to deal with the consequences of their actions...That said, every crime has its punishment that is theoreticly paid for in fines or jail time as determined by the court. I do not have the list of "what is a felony and what isn't." Maybe there should be no exceptions but maybe some debts to society should be able to be paid in full with the person then getting to start fresh. No doubt some crimes should carry a lifetime ban from certain privileges. Doesn't really affect me, but I'm sure there are some 'felons' out there who can be great sportsmen and an asset to the hunting community. Depends who they are, NOW.

I mean no disrespect to you... But the one MAJOR thing that you are missing. Though they have served their time, I can guarantee you the peoples lives they destroyed by their actions don't end in 7 years. I have a close friend that lost his 13 year old daughter by being hit by a drunk driver at 3pm in the afternoon. Eligible to get out in 5 years. I understand he was a great guy, but I am sorry his actions DESTROYED peoples lives, aside of the life he took. Getting fired up... Should stop here.

Colorado Cowboy
02-12-2012, 07:58 AM
Convicted felons are just that.....FELONS! If someone commits a serious crime (a felony), that should have to pay for it. What the hells the difference between a bow and a firearm! Both can be considered a dangerous weapon. Would you like to have an arrow shot at you, heaven forbid it hit you. We are splitting hairs here. While not concealable, a bow is just as dangerous as a gun. In the wrong hands, its lethal! A lot of this discussion is about the moralistic ideas of crime and punishment, of which we as a civilization (and a nation) have not been able to agree on for centuries.

Guess I don't have to tell you my opinion.

jenbickel
02-12-2012, 08:44 AM
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8928/pancakebunnyh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/pancakebunnyh.jpg/)

sigpros
02-12-2012, 09:34 AM
I work with a guy who is a felon. Great guy works hard takes care of his 3 kids and would give you the shirt off his back. Made a bad choice about 17 years ago got assigned a lawyer and is now a felon. He did a total of about 6 hrs in jail. He said he can't have anything that fires a projectile no gun,bow,slingshot etc. Said the only hunting he could do would be hog hunting with dogs and a knife. I have mixed feelings on this because of guys like this who want their kids to learn to hunt and stuff. I am going to teach his boy to shoot because he wants him to grow up liking guns and hunting so he can learn what can be taken away with bad choices and snap decisions.

Kevin Root
02-12-2012, 10:16 AM
I work with a guy who is a felon. Great guy works hard takes care of his 3 kids and would give you the shirt off his back. Made a bad choice about 17 years ago got assigned a lawyer and is now a felon. He did a total of about 6 hrs in jail. He said he can't have anything that fires a projectile no gun,bow,slingshot etc. Said the only hunting he could do would be hog hunting with dogs and a knife. I have mixed feelings on this because of guys like this who want their kids to learn to hunt and stuff. I am going to teach his boy to shoot because he wants him to grow up liking guns and hunting so he can learn what can be taken away with bad choices and snap decisions.

Here in California he could hunt with a bow depending on his parole. I checked with our Fish and Game just being courious and found the below. It seems to change state to state but I'm not sure how Missouri reads. Just thought I'd pass that on.

California Penal Code, section 12001(b)
(b) As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.

Felons may not possess firearms at any time (firearms are defined in California Penal Code, section 12001(b)). Crossbows are not considered archery equipment or a firearm, but they are considered to be a deadly weapon and can be used during rifle seasons. Department of Fish and Game regulations do not prohibit a felon from using a crossbow to hunt with, however, the person should first check with their parole officer to see if a crossbow violates their conditions of parole.

Colorado Cowboy
02-12-2012, 10:39 AM
I know that a lot of older people who in their youth did something that they are not proud of and have paid their debt to society and have lived exemplory lives for years. It is not unheard of that they can have their felony reduced and be given their civil rights back. Anyon is these circumstances should consult an attorney and see if this is feasible.

BOHNTR
02-12-2012, 10:44 AM
Kevin Root:

You are correct for Title 14 sections of the Fish & Game Code and the legal definition per the Penal Code, however, case law dictates otherwise in the Golden State. After 24 years in law enforcement in this state, which began as a game warden, I've learned to keep updated on case decisions regarding this area. Convicted felons are not allowed to posses dangerous weapons (firearms, crossbows, bow and arrows) while on parole and many can not posses them after discharging from parole based on their conviction. As a result, most are not allowed to participate in hunting activities.

Shaun
02-12-2012, 10:55 AM
Hunting is a privilege, everyone knows the consequences of a felony before its committed, should take away as many right and privileges as possible.

Well said!!! Definatly a sore subject with me but had a step dad who I learned alot of what I know about the outdoors get convicted of a felony and needless to say I dont think he got what he deserved.

Kevin Root
02-12-2012, 03:43 PM
Kevin Root:

You are correct for Title 14 sections of the Fish & Game Code and the legal definition per the Penal Code, however, case law dictates otherwise in the Golden State. After 24 years in law enforcement in this state, which began as a game warden, I've learned to keep updated on case decisions regarding this area. Convicted felons are not allowed to posses dangerous weapons (firearms, crossbows, bow and arrows) while on parole and many can not posses them after discharging from parole based on their conviction. As a result, most are not allowed to participate in hunting activities.

Good to know and thanks for your service in law enforcement BOHNTR.

Something for everyone to remember from that expression of 60's and 70's and popularized by that TV show "Baretta","Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time." The phrase advises us not to do something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences. As we see from some of the responses in this thread so far those consequences can and do go much deeper and severe than mere jail time and fines.

dhershberger
02-13-2012, 10:54 AM
I don't think I am going to spend too much time worrying about the hunting rights of felons.
+1Bitteroot Bulls
I'm with Bitteroot Bulls on this one!

Zim
02-13-2012, 11:26 AM
I find it totally laughable Utah would ban felons when they condone a boatload of thieves running their own Hunt Expo in SLC! Don Peay is 1,000X the white collar criminal as any thug caught robbing a 7-11 ! Go figure.

Jon Boy
02-13-2012, 11:34 AM
I find it totally laughable Utah would ban felons when they condone a boatload of thieves running their own Hunt Expo in SLC! Don Peay is 1,000X the white collar criminal as any thug caught robbing a 7-11 ! Go figure.

^^couldnt have said it better.

HuskyMusky
02-16-2012, 04:14 PM
a 19yo hooking up with his hs 16yo is a very serious crime! lock these kids up and throw away the key I tell ya! same goes for sexting! A serious crime? Some felonies are serious, some are not very.

As to a bow being dangerous, felons CAN own bows, they can't own GUNS.

Is lying to an FBI agent a serious crime? ie martha stewart? Tell me how lying to an fbi agent justifies a felony, but when a cop interrogates a suspect they can outright lie to them legally? absolutely no difference but 1 is a felony and 1 is completely legal!

Ignorance is bliss. Everyone thinks felons are rapist murderers when most are not, and if you knew everyone who had a felony it would blow your mind.

It would be nice if the term felon were restricted to just that, serious offenders. But the hs senior who hooks up with a freshmen at a party I somehow find not quite as serious as a murderer. Btw what is a felony in 1 state isn't a felony in another, ie the age of consent int he US varies from 16 to 17 to 18 depending upon the state.


Convicted felons are just that.....FELONS! If someone commits a serious crime (a felony), that should have to pay for it. What the hells the difference between a bow and a firearm! Both can be considered a dangerous weapon. Would you like to have an arrow shot at you, heaven forbid it hit you. We are splitting hairs here. While not concealable, a bow is just as dangerous as a gun. In the wrong hands, its lethal! A lot of this discussion is about the moralistic ideas of crime and punishment, of which we as a civilization (and a nation) have not been able to agree on for centuries.

Guess I don't have to tell you my opinion.

T43
02-16-2012, 04:17 PM
So what did you do? Statutory? That seems to be the way you are leaning.

HuskyMusky
02-16-2012, 04:28 PM
The human brain doesn't stop developing until about age 25.

It would be very interesting to see a study of 1 time felons who committed a crime when younger than 25 who have gone on to never commit a crime after 25.

To claim every "criminal" knows they're committing a crime prior to choosing to do so is ignorant if you ask me. Back to teenagers sexting and hooking up, I'm sure most don't know what's illegal or just how illegal something is. I highly doubt teenagers sexting even think it's illegal, let alone distributing child pornography.

wapiti66
02-27-2012, 07:41 PM
It's tough to make it a yes/no answer, there are good people out there that made a mistake and can't hunt because of it, although it may have been 30 years ago. But, there are plenty felons that don't deserve the right also, I believe it should definately depend on the crime/felon history.

Musket Man
02-28-2012, 09:45 PM
I know a very good person that has a felony because he forgot his gun was behind his seat with bullets in the magazine. While according to the law in his state (CA) thats a felony. He certainly did nothing violent or morally wrong. There are alot of people with felonys that are not at all bad, violent or dangerous people in any way.

BOHNTR
03-01-2012, 08:00 PM
I know a very good person that has a felony because he forgot his gun was behind his seat with bullets in the magazine. While according to the law in his state (CA) thats a felony. He certainly did nothing violent or morally wrong. There are alot of people with felonys that are not at all bad, violent or dangerous people in any way.

Was he convicted of carrying a loaded and concealed firearm? Section 12031 of the California Penal Code is a "wobbler", which can be tried as a misdemeanor or felony depending on the following factors. A felony conviction is based on four subdivisions. These subdivisions are:

1. Previously being convicted of a felony or any other California firearm offense,

2. Situations where the loaded firearm is stolen and you know or have reasonable cause to believe that the gun is stolen,

3. Unlawfully possessing the firearm or otherwise being prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm ("unlawful possession of a firearm" means that you have taken the gun without permission from the gun’s lawful owner or from a person who had lawful custody of the weapon), and

4. Being an active participant in a criminal street gang.

Perhaps there was more to his story if, in fact, he was convicted of a felony section of 12031 P.C. in California.

Musket Man
03-01-2012, 09:28 PM
I dont know for sure but i know he did none of those 4 things. I do know the cop was after his girl friend or his girl friend was the cops x or something like that and the cop was harassing him and trying to nail him for anything he could any way he could. I dont remember all the small details. Im just saying that just because someone has a felony dont mean they are bad or dangerous.

HuskyMusky
03-01-2012, 09:28 PM
I know a very good person that has a felony because he forgot his gun was behind his seat with bullets in the magazine. While according to the law in his state (CA) thats a felony. He certainly did nothing violent or morally wrong. There are alot of people with felonys that are not at all bad, violent or dangerous people in any way.

Well according to others on this site, he obviously knew what he was doing was wrong and chose to commit a felony.

Not all crimes are planned, not all are said well this is a felony but I'm going to do it anyway,


Can anyone tell me why a person who lies to an fbi agent should not be allowed to bowhunt in Utah? let alone hunt/own a gun? A cop can lie to you, but you lie to an fbi agent and it's a felony. Makes a lot of sense to me... that was sarcasm btw.

Not every felony is armed robbery, murder, etc...

plain and simple the term "felon" covers too many.


I remember on the news a while back they made your 5th DUI a felony! I couldn't help but laugh, why make it 5th? might as well make it 20th, or 200th dui at that rate.

speaking of in canada a dui is a felony, curious how many people have driven drunk or buzzed at least once in their life?

dead river
03-02-2012, 01:01 AM
I was riding with a co-worker last fall when he got rear ended about 1.5 miles from a main college campus (where it is obvious with all university buildings). The other guy leaves his info and drives away, we wait for the police to file it. Buddy tells the cop he has a concealed carry. Cop asks where it is and he tells him locked in the seat compartment of his silverado truck. Cop says, good thing it is locked or i would have to arrest you, the campus boundary is that center line of the roadway 15' over there.....even with ccp, he would have committed a felony. with the gun locked away, NC law makes it a class I misdemeanor. Incidentally, that law is up to be changed to not have it a felony if the weapon never leaves the vehicle.

No signs, no way for any of us to know about this obscure campus boundary. Close call for him...apparently there are felonies that are easier to commit than others. I started looking on county GIS sites after that and was amazed at what was deemed "on campus" grounds on many 4 lane public roads in the vicinity of a school or university.


Still not sure about my answer to the poll. Just saying, it may not be black and white.

BOHNTR
03-02-2012, 07:03 AM
There's a big difference folks from being arrested for a felony charge and being convicted of a felony.

Bitterroot Bulls
03-02-2012, 07:30 AM
BOHNTR,

I think this dead horse has been kicked to dust.

Everybody has their sob story. Although the "jealous dirty cop framed me and I was unjustly convicted of a felony" story is a good one (although apparently the jury didn't buy it), the fact remains: The people of Utah decided they didn't want felons bow hunting there. They can change that law through their representatives, if they so choose.

packer58
03-02-2012, 09:33 AM
[QUOTE] I think this dead horse has been kicked to dust.

I agree, this topic needs to go away.

sjsmallfield
03-02-2012, 03:49 PM
BB and p58 I'm with you guys on this one. This Sh$$ is getting old.

trkytrack2
03-07-2012, 01:17 AM
Maybe I'm confused but doesn't federal law forbid convicted felons from possessing any type of weapon, including archery equipment?

Jon Boy
03-07-2012, 12:28 PM
Maybe I'm confused but doesn't federal law forbid convicted felons from possessing any type of weapon, including archery equipment?

No, only firearms.

HuskyMusky
03-07-2012, 04:29 PM
There's a big difference folks from being arrested for a felony charge and being convicted of a felony.

I would guess primarily this difference is due to size of wallet ;)

It's like a DUI, if you don't blow, have $5k for a lawyer, you don't get convicted of a DUI. Case Closed.

HuskyMusky
03-07-2012, 04:33 PM
Maybe I'm confused but doesn't federal law forbid convicted felons from possessing any type of weapon, including archery equipment?

Imagine if felons couldn't own golf clubs, baseball bat, steak knives, haha.


I remember some quote I once read... "Man kills wife with steak knife, can no longer own rifle, can still own steak knife" go figure, I guess this is what happens when politicians make laws.

trkytrack2
03-11-2012, 12:58 AM
Imagine if felons couldn't own golf clubs, baseball bat, steak knives, haha.


I remember some quote I once read... "Man kills wife with steak knife, can no longer own rifle, can still own steak knife" go figure, I guess this is what happens when politicians make laws.

That's called punishing the object instead of punishing the criminal for the crime.....which is often the case.

Kevin Root
03-11-2012, 08:33 AM
That's called punishing the object instead of punishing the criminal for the crime.....which is often the case.

Good point trkytrack2 and welcome to the forum.

Colorado Cowboy
03-11-2012, 09:43 AM
It doesn"t seem to me that we really talkiing about punishment, but what happens AFTER the CONVICTED FELON gets out of prison and what should be the further consequences! IMHO a felony is a felony. Many, many of these are pleaded down to misdemeanors. If someone has been convicted of a felony....sorry, no weapons, no voting again and no civil rights. I know the argument about being very young when it happened and they have turned their life around, but that doesn't really wash for me. There are lots of cases when this happens that in later years, the person petitions and get their felony reduced, probably deserved too. It's really not too hard to be a good citizen and contribute to society!!!

Shaun
03-11-2012, 10:55 AM
It doesn"t seem to me that we really talkiing about punishment, but what happens AFTER the CONVICTED FELON gets out of prison and what should be the further consequences! IMHO a felony is a felony. Many, many of these are pleaded down to misdemeanors. If someone has been convicted of a felony....sorry, no weapons, no voting again and no civil rights. I know the argument about being very young when it happened and they have turned their life around, but that doesn't really wash for me. There are lots of cases when this happens that in later years, the person petitions and get their felony reduced, probably deserved too. It's really not too hard to be a good citizen and contribute to society!!!

CC you hit that on the head!!!!! As far as I am concerned a felon is just that. Havent read back but the pole states if it was non violent or wepon related sex crimes are neither and as far as I am concerned that is much worse

HuskyMusky
03-14-2012, 07:03 PM
I recently heard it was a "sex crime" in some state for urinating in public, and landed you on the sex offender list, not sure if it constituted a felony however, it was in some college town in the midwest I believe but not certain.

teenagers "sexting" one another has been in the headlines recently, ie distribution of child pornography. ie teenagers sending pics of themselves to each other, boyfs/girlfs,

I kinda doubt 16yr olds knew this was a felony prior to doing so. So not every "felon" chooses the action knowing the consequences ahead of time.

dito
03-14-2012, 07:34 PM
I say only if it's a victimless crime like possession of drugs and stuff like that.

Hodgeymoto707
09-21-2012, 08:54 PM
Everyone who has been saying people with a felony shouldn't be able to bow hunt or own a gun and should have more rights taken away from them make me sick! This shouldn't be a black and white issue like the government has made it. I grew up hunting with my dad and grandpa and have already started with my seven year old son, so the hunting lifestyle runs in my blood. I started out as a youngster going to junior pheasant hunts was a boy scout and was really involved in FFA. Never have I been in trouble with the law. After high school I joined the iron workers union. A couple years later got married and had a son. 4 years later I got injured on the job. Had 3 surgeries on my back and was on all kinds of medication. One day I left my medication at home and was in pain so my dad have me some of his that he takes for his back and for his bum knee. He gave me approximately 10 pills but only took two and wrapped the rest in plastic and put it in my wallet in between my drivers license and the clear plastic that holds the license in place. Basically what happened I got pulled over for rolling a stop sighn. Went to give the police officer my I.D. And of course he saw the pills my dad had given me long story short after telling him the truth of what had happened I still went to jail. I was released within 2 or 3 days and had a court date. Now because a father was trying to help his son that was In pain and under the care of a doctor that was prescribing me medication twice as strong as what I had I now am a felon and am not legally allowed to own a gun which I think is BS. Maybe if I hurt someone or stole or robbed or raped someone take that right away for all means but for someone who has never been in trouble their whole life contributes to his town(sons baseball teams coach) and is now not allowed to vote, hunt, or keep a weapon to protect his family. I'm sorry but that is complete BS! That's why our forfathers made sure to document the right to bear arms. I think the government is trying to rid everyone of their guns for the new world order but that is a completely different forum. I continue to hunt and bear arms and if want my gun you will have to rip it from my cold dead hands, and good luck if you can't tell that's an AR-10 in my profile pic and the rifle behind me is my sons AR-15. What sickens me the most is some of you are comparing me to the scum of the earth! Rapists, thieves, and murderers. Ignorant pricks!

Murdy
09-21-2012, 11:25 PM
Well, some of the most spiritual moments in my life have come while hunting. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing (for the criminal and for the rest of us) to allow someone who did something wrong to maintain that relationship with nature that we all value. I beleive it helps me be a better person. It's not just about punishment.

ivorytip
09-22-2012, 01:33 PM
well said hodgey! it is to black and white. very sickning.

Backcountry Stalker
01-08-2013, 02:12 PM
I know this is an old thread. But, I really wanted to comment on it. I wanna first make the statement, "the only difference between most of you and a felon is that you didn't get caught and they did." Yes, there are some of us who are angels and never did a single wrong in our lives which gives us the right to judge a persons intent now that they have "paid their debt to society (said in jest of course)." To be honest, if some of the views in this thread were to be established...then my question would be, what's the point of the justice system? What's the point of sending them to a "correctional" institution? What's the point of "Rehabilitation?" Because we as tax payers pay for "ALL" of these concepts and preceptions. I have 2 family members that were certified as adults (meaning they were under the age of 18 when they did their wrong and the court system decided the offense was big enough to try them as an adult would be tried...i.e. when convicted admitted into prison not a juvenile facility. One went...one received ADULT probation.) Now, tell me...which one of us didn't do something at 16 that was crazy? And, some of you would have me believe that the actions WE ALL have done at 16 should determine, for the most part, what the future of our lives are like?! By the way, here in Nevada if you happen to reach the age of 18 in high school and have sex with ANYBODY that is under age (meaning in high school with you) is a felony sex crime...which will get you certified as an adult and prosecuted as such if the authorities catch wind of it and your "financial/ethnic" status is appealing for them to further their prosecuting career (just calling a spade a spade). This I've witnessed while in high school several times and if you remember there was a kid that made national headlines for the same offense about a year ago on the east coast. Should these also receive the captial punishment (screwed life) that some would suggest? If something like this happened to a loved one of yours...or yourself would you still have the firm stance and opinion that some of you have now? Just a question.

I truly believe that the only way to correct a wrong action is by making a right action. If someone committed a crime and has since the time of his/her offense shown the ablity to act as a responsible citizen then his/her "current" actions should be taken into consideration. Just as it seems their past actions are ALWAYS taken into consideration. If you don't believe in this concept...then it makes no sense to apologize for offending someone because the offense has already been made. And, according to some of the beliefs here. Once the offense has been made...well hang'em for good. I'm not calling anyone out in particular. I'm calling out the "holier than thou" mind state that a lot of us have.

hoshour
01-08-2013, 04:09 PM
I'm with Backcountry on this one. I believe in second chances, especially when a lot of time has gone by without further incident.

I sure hope I have a lot more sense now than when I was a teenager. Marriage and family do a lot to instill common sense and moderation in a man. I would rather trust someone who screwed up 20 years ago and has been clean since than a teenager hooked on violent video games or thinks it takes alcohol to be a man.

Colorado Cowboy
01-09-2013, 07:38 AM
Backcountry, look at my previous post and read it carefully. There is a way for some convicted felons (misdemeanors too) to get their record cleared up some. I have a friend who as a young adult did a pretty bad thing, beat up someone pretty bad. After 25 years of an exemplory life, contacted an attorney and to make a long story short, went to court and got the record changed to a lessor charge (not a felony). Cost lots of money and had to make amends with the person who he beat up (and they had to agree with the courts action). But I still believe that convicted FELONS should have their civil rights limited because of THEIR actions. No one held a gun to their head and forced them into the crime they committed.

Doe Nob
01-09-2013, 09:00 AM
But I still believe that convicted FELONS should have their civil rights limited because of THEIR actions

True, but where is the mention on this thread of the philosophy that the punishment should fit the crime? The eighth amendment entitles us to protection from "cruel and unusual punishments." IMO if the felony had nothing to do with weapons or hunting then the punishment shouldn't either.

And for those of you who think you are living clean, you should read this book. I trust the government to manage the justice system as well as they have done managing the financial system, immigration and entitlements.

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Innocent-ebook/dp/B00505UZ4G/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

Colorado Cowboy
01-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Sorry....I guess we agree to disagree!

BOHNTR
01-09-2013, 01:01 PM
Sorry....I guess we agree to disagree!

I have to agree with Colorado Cowboy.....

Backcountry Stalker
01-09-2013, 03:50 PM
Backcountry, look at my previous post and read it carefully. There is a way for some convicted felons (misdemeanors too) to get their record cleared up some. I have a friend who as a young adult did a pretty bad thing, beat up someone pretty bad. After 25 years of an exemplory life, contacted an attorney and to make a long story short, went to court and got the record changed to a lessor charge (not a felony). Cost lots of money and had to make amends with the person who he beat up (and they had to agree with the courts action). But I still believe that convicted FELONS should have their civil rights limited because of THEIR actions. No one held a gun to their head and forced them into the crime they committed.

CC, I know about a felon getting their record sealed or expunged (there is a difference between the two). And yes, that is feasible after a certain amount of time has passed since the offense was comitted. Don't have a problem with that. Basically, you make your bed hard you lay in it hard. However, you brought up a couple of issues that when living in the enviroment you were raised in seems to be an unheard of premise. But, in the environment I was raised in is all too common. Peer pressure is very real and dangerous. Yes, I personally know of a 13 year old boy (at the time, he is now 37) who will be spending the rest of his life in prison. Why, because a very well known gang thru out the U.S. threaten to murder not only him, but his family as well if he didn't do the "hit" they needed him to do. Was he a member of this gang...no....was he an associate...yes. But, "gun" WAS pointed at his head for a lack of better words. This I swear to you is not a lie nor movie. This is real situations were I've grown up at. If you believe I'm exaggerating, ask anyone on this forum or whomever you may know that lives in Vegas about North Las Vegas or the Westside of Vegas. I PROMISE you they will tell you I'm being "light" in my description. Different environments effect people and the way their raised. Where your from, hunting has probably been passed down generation to generation. Where I'm from, gang banging and all that comes with it is being passed on from generation to generation. Not a sob story because I'm one of the few that found a seam and worked my way thru it (thank God) but not without some bumps on the road never the less. And to be unbiased, ALOT of these dudes deserve to be buried alive IMO. Because, they just don't get that life is precious...raising a family like a man should is priceless! They don't get that and hence do some very knavish things. These people I'm not concerned with. Because, their not concerned about me or you. It's the ones like you and I both have described. The ones that get the common sense idea that I messed up in life and need to change that. Those that step up to the plate with the count against them and still swing for the fence. These people deserve to be looked at as "whole" citizens in a society that's losing its moral common sense DAILY! So, it's ok for them to pay taxes and things of that nature. But, it's not ok for them to EARN the rights that they gave away back?! How is that just and fair? Aren't we living in a country that preaches equality, justice, and a fair shake in life (not saying I totally believe in this marketing scheme lol)? But, to some extent this is what this society thrives on. Life presents a different package for all of us. We don't know what the gift is gonna be until we open it. Some of us will like our presents....a lot of us won't. That's just life. Make the best of it. And if you should happen to break the gift that was handed to you. Well, it's my belief there is always a way to fix it if that's what a person truly wants. But, to wipe your hands clean of another human being based off of a screw up is no different IMO than a convicted felon who did the most evil of acts. Both of them gave no second thought to the lives they are effecting.

Backcountry Stalker
01-09-2013, 04:05 PM
And I get what your saying CC about "convicted felons." But lets remember there's a certain monetary and shall we say popularity status that plays in getting a felony dropped down to a lesser offense. If you don't have either of the two. You end up with a public defender who will wash you so he/she can move on to their next case. Some "convicted felons" had NO choice but to take a felony charge because it was the best option in the plea bargain considering ALL the charges and time the courts were trying to stack on them. So my point includes these people as well....as "convicted felons."

dying to kill
01-09-2013, 04:28 PM
I couldnt agree more. take for example buying alcohol for a minor is a felony, in my younger days i had older friends buy it for me and know several others that have bought for younger as well id rather not say if i have done such a favor to a younger friend or not but if so and caught that means no hunting for me? Thats just not right by no means!!
I find many people seriously lacking empathy these days. Also many people with the do anything wrong no matter how miniscule and their attitude is lock'em up and throw away the key forever! I'm quite certain most people have done something wrong, whether intentioned or not at some point in their life.

Good/great people do make mistakes, even if just once in their lives. ie, the 50yo guy who was busted at 18 for marijuana, the 19yo who hooks up with his hs girlf and becomes a sex offender/felon, white collar criminals, mind you martha stewart wasn't a felon for insider trading but rather lying to a fbi agent! which police officers are legally allowed to lie all they want to us, but the moment we lie to an fbi agent it becomes a felony?!?!

So sure if you think "lying to an fbi agent" should mean you can never own a gun/hunt/bowhunt in some states again in your life, then I'd have to say you're logic and empahty is lacking.

Life isn't black and white, it's grey.

dying to kill
01-09-2013, 04:44 PM
i agree word for word hos. So many people get to thinking that they are better than someone else cuz they dont have something like a felony or dui or what have you on there record but the cold hard fact is alot of them have done the same thing (mainly talking about dui) but just never happen to get caught!!! case in point my buddy got a dui and lost his job his boss came to his house to get his company truck with a beer in his hand and said sucks for you!!!
I'm with Backcountry on this one. I believe in second chances, especially when a lot of time has gone by without further incident.

I sure hope I have a lot more sense now than when I was a teenager. Marriage and family do a lot to instill common sense and moderation in a man. I would rather trust someone who screwed up 20 years ago and has been clean since than a teenager hooked on violent video games or thinks it takes alcohol to be a man.

Timberstalker
01-09-2013, 05:09 PM
I little bad luck can change your life. Just about everyone I knew when I was a teenager were breaking laws. Some got caught, some didn't. I have family members and friends that could have been felons if they were caught and are extremely good adults today. I walk a very sraight line as a 40+ year old man, I barely knew there was a line @ 16. There's nothing more important in life than good parents, IMO