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Stinky1
02-05-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm not sure if I'm reading my MRS right with the combination of new dates this year and the changes Montana made last year but; if there a points only option for Montana elk this year? I've got a point from 2 years ago and I know I'll loose it if I don't apply this year, but I know I won't be hunting there this year or next. If I can get a point by not forking over the $800 and turning it back in if I draw and loosing out on %20 of that, I'd like to know.
Thanks

NDHunter
02-05-2012, 08:56 PM
As best I can tell, you are going to get screwed over and not be able to get all your money back. I would love to build an elk and deer limited permit point this year too but like you, I just can't figure out how to do it and get all your money back. I called them and the guy basically said that you will end up paying almost $200 or so for that elk point. Sucks...

Stinky1
02-06-2012, 06:59 AM
So on page 77 of the Feb/March MRS talks about purchasing a preference point for those who didn't apply for a nonresident big game license between July 1 and Sept. 30. To me, it looks like I can buy a preference point but not a limited quote bonus point?

dustyboots
02-07-2012, 12:56 PM
So on page 77 of the Feb/March MRS talks about purchasing a preference point for those who didn't apply for a nonresident big game license between July 1 and Sept. 30. To me, it looks like I can buy a preference point but not a limited quote bonus point?

I don't have the magazine in front of me but sounds like they may be talking about being able to buy points for wyoming I am fairly certain you can't buy just a point of any kind for Montana

NDHunter
02-07-2012, 06:57 PM
So on page 77 of the Feb/March MRS talks about purchasing a preference point for those who didn't apply for a nonresident big game license between July 1 and Sept. 30. To me, it looks like I can buy a preference point but not a limited quote bonus point?

Yes, I believe that you are correct. Montana changed their system for drawing general tags this year. It will be interesting to see if you actually need any points to draw the general tag since their were leftover tags last year. And to get a limited quota point, you first need to have a general tag. What a convoluted system.

Stinky1
02-07-2012, 07:41 PM
I'm wondering if it's even worth the $$$ for the average guy to buy the preference point if a guy can't buy a limited bonus point if you don't try for the general tag first. If a guy is only looking to keep/build their points up for the limited areas, then you lose out on $200 turning your tag back in every year if you're not looking to hunt the general hunt. Think I may pass on them now. Anybody else out there have a view on this or am I looking at it wrong?

NDHunter
02-08-2012, 04:06 AM
I'm wondering if it's even worth the $$$ for the average guy to buy the preference point if a guy can't buy a limited bonus point if you don't try for the general tag first. If a guy is only looking to keep/build their points up for the limited areas, then you lose out on $200 turning your tag back in every year if you're not looking to hunt the general hunt. Think I may pass on them now. Anybody else out there have a view on this or am I looking at it wrong?

Im in the same boat with you. $200 is way too much for ONE point. The only way I would do it is if I wanted to deer hunt in MT and keep the deer tag but turn in the elk tag. Otherwise I just can't justify it. I would say to build points in other states instead... Or maybe take that money and try for a moose, mountain goat or sheep tag in Idaho. I would rather spend $150 and roll the dice on that instead.

Roughneck Country
02-29-2012, 07:32 AM
I was going to buy a point for the Big game combo after July 1st I believe the date is, and not put in for the general draw. Does this mean I can not buy a point for sheep because I have to put in for the draw for it since it is a special permitt?

Montanas system is a little confusing I have read the MRS section of the last issue at least 3 times and it seems like the Montana system is a little difficult to understand.

Doe Nob
02-29-2012, 09:49 AM
I think to get a sheep point you have to apply for sheep.

I've been studying it and am in the same boat as the rest of you. I don't want a general tag, I'm not going to buy one and risk the long odds of the limited entry unit I want for elk.

I'll apply for sheep and goats and buy supertags and hope they shuffle their system again next year. :rolleyes:

HuskyMusky
02-29-2012, 05:52 PM
there is now a points only period, after july 1st as someone else stated.

agreed on how stupid it is if you want to draw a special tag only and not a general tag at all and if you fail to draw the special tag you'll have to give up 20% to do so.

at least this year you can apply as one, vs. first drawing the general then applying for the special, but they definitely need to correct the 20% refund deal with special tags, although I wonder if they will, since if people are willing, why would they?

Personally I'd like to get rid of all general tags altogether, general tags should become regional, or unit specific.

HuskyMusky
02-29-2012, 06:03 PM
sheep, goat, and moose you must front the money$$ and apply for the tag to get a point, most people who just want points for these species apply for the toughest unit, or the toughest/best unit, case they do draw they're not stuck with just a tough odds/bad unit. Which in the case of sheep some guys may be applying and not even wanting a tag that year making the odds even worse than they could be! Front fees even for a point might help draw odds.

It's not rocket science, so I'm not sure why so many states do awkward things.

as for points only, I think they're only talking about fixing it for elk/deer, etc... not for sheep, moose, goats, although a points only option would be nice, especially for the worst units/draw odds such as for moose, guys are applying for those units just to have bad odds and not draw, and guys who want to draw that unit are having to deal with even worse odds than what they truly should be.


I think to get a sheep point you have to apply for sheep.


I've been studying it and am in the same boat as the rest of you. I don't want a general tag, I'm not going to buy one and risk the long odds of the limited entry unit I want for elk.

I'll apply for sheep and goats and buy supertags and hope they shuffle their system again next year. :rolleyes:

Musket Man
02-29-2012, 10:01 PM
I think montana has the worst draw and license system of any western state and their general tag prices are much to high for what they have to offer. especially now considering th wolf situation. I wish they would divide it into regions and also split up the combo tags or not charge almost as much for a deer or elk only tag as for both. I also hear montana fpw is broke and looking to raise prices even more

HuskyMusky
03-04-2012, 04:30 PM
I couldn't agree more!

I've just started looking over the regs etc... this season.

This general tag / special/limited tag system is terrible!
I want a special tag, not a general, the only way to draw the special tag is to 1st draw the general, then apply for the special, they combined this process this year, but still if you fail to draw the special they'll refund you the general tag at 80%?? so essentially I' pay $150 or more for a bonus point?

Separate the general and special tags! So we non-res can apply for 1 or the other, perhaps as a secondary allow non-res who fail to draw the special to get a general if they want, or make that a 2nd choice and if any tags are left over allow us to draw that general as a 2nd choice.

I have a feeling over the next few years MT will fix this, but this should be fixed this year, not 3 years from now!

If I draw my elk tag this year and I should I won't be back until this all gets fixed, whether that's 3 years or 20.

Many "easy fixes" if you ask me, and should be done sooner rather than later!

C'mon MT get your act together!

oh and allow sheep/goat/moose applicants to build points only vs having to apply, even if you require fronting full tag fees just to apply for points, which many currently do, ie applying for the worst unit/odds hoping not to draw that tag and gain points, which only hurts people who want to draw that unit. Odds would increase, another simple fix. This is what i do for moose, and I'm sure many others do the same for goats and sheep too.





I think montana has the worst draw and license system of any western state and their general tag prices are much to high for what they have to offer. especially now considering th wolf situation. I wish they would divide it into regions and also split up the combo tags or not charge almost as much for a deer or elk only tag as for both. I also hear montana fpw is broke and looking to raise prices even more

HuskyMusky
03-04-2012, 04:37 PM
I think montana has the worst draw and license system of any western state and their general tag prices are much to high for what they have to offer. especially now considering th wolf situation. I wish they would divide it into regions and also split up the combo tags or not charge almost as much for a deer or elk only tag as for both. I also hear montana fpw is broke and looking to raise prices even more

They could definitely mimic NM(standard/high demand/quality) and reduce general tag prices, and make special elk/deer tags more, which are $555 and $780 btw, MT elk tag is $794, and their elk/deer big game combo is $944!

Right now a special elk permit costs $9 extra to apply and draw, imagine if a general tag was $500, and you had to pay an extra $294 to draw that special elk permit, better odds I'm sure would occur!

Again very simple/easy/quick fixes.

HuskyMusky
03-05-2012, 01:51 PM
I've been reviewing some of the regs, looks like for 2012 they haven't announced if they'll have a points only period yet, but I would guess they will, for the big game combo... which btw had 100% draw last year so gaining a point for that combo is kind of pointless. The point I'd like to build is a bonus point for the special elk/deer permits, which I don't think they let you buy less you apply for, but who knows maybe this year they'll have this, but it's a guess for anyone at this point.

I wonder if you apply and turn your tag back in, do you get your points back? ie if you want a special elk permit but fail to draw that but draw the general, and turn it back in, will your points be re-instated? if not you basically just spent $190 to lose your points.

In my eyes the main points you want are the bonus points for special elk/deer tags, not pref points for the big game/elk combo.

Bitterroot Bulls
03-05-2012, 01:55 PM
Husky,

You are right that pref points are what you want. I would guess everyone will get the combo this year as well. Pref Points are squared now, so they are especially valuable.

HuskyMusky
03-05-2012, 02:06 PM
I wonder if I want the big game combo or just the elk combo? ie..do I want a deer tag? I doubt I would come back for the rifle deer season, so I'd either have to have a big mulie cross my path during the elk/bow season, or I'd have to take an elk early on and then chase mulies with the bow. Hmmm?