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sellout
02-19-2012, 11:31 AM
The Mule deer hunting in western Wyoming has dropped drasticly due to over hunting, hunting magazines like Eastman's selling out all the good hunting areas in Wyoming, poor management from the game and fish, hard winters, and preditors ( wolves)

Wyoming is not the place to hunt deer in Wyoming

F.O.E

Colorado Cowboy
02-19-2012, 12:47 PM
Don't necessarily agree with everything you say, but everyone's entitled to their views.

squirrelduster
02-19-2012, 01:01 PM
That's funny. Eastman's has nothing to do with the deer decline anymore than Remington does.

Deer fluctuate due to environmental conditions such as weather and predators more than hunter pressure.

Try hunting in a screwed up state like California, no lion hunting, high bear population and too many coyotes equals a declining deer herd. Throw in a bad winter and you have a recipe for disaster. The anti everything people make it worse. One crappy hunting location in Wyoming is still better than the majority of California.

sellout
02-19-2012, 01:08 PM
When the deer population is on the decline and the game and fish do not reduce the number of tags given out, and stories are published about how wonderful the hunting is, just to help thier buisnes going has a lot to do with the decline.

Bitterroot Bulls
02-19-2012, 01:10 PM
I will agree that exposure in magazines (even Eastmans) has increased pressure and affected draw odds in some places, but it certainly isn't the cause of the mule deer decline. There is a pretty good arcticle on just that in the latest issue of Eastmans.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, has affected mule deer more than habitat loss. When people stop purchasing 5 acre "Ranchettes" on the winter range, we will be making real progress.

Grantbvfd
02-19-2012, 01:14 PM
That's funny. Eastman's has nothing to do with the deer decline anymore than Remington does.

Deer fluctuate due to environmental conditions such as weather and predators more than hunter pressure.

Try hunting in a screwed up state like California, no lion hunting, high bear population and too many coyotes equals a declining deer herd. Throw in a bad winter and you have a recipe for disaster. The anti everything people make it worse. One crappy hunting location in Wyoming is still better than the majority of California.

Couldn't agree more. Eastmans make areas known to more people. Just because Eastmans says it's good doesn't change the number of tags in an area.

Growing wolf populations, harsh winters, deer migration.... There are a ton of factors. Predators are becoming a huge issue all over the country. From Minnesota to California they are here. Maybe instead of pointing fingers at companies(like Eastmans) who help hunters, sell out should concentrate on talking to politicians who are letting this predator invasion happen.

sellout
02-19-2012, 01:22 PM
Trust me I have been involed in meeting with game and fish, politicians. I have wrote many letters and posted my concers to get the wolves under control if not stopped, because I agree they are hurting the population of wild life.


The more people know about a good hunting area the more people want to hunt it. The will become over hunted and the population will go down.

When you grow up hunting an area and know the area well, when you have seen the number of deer decline, and the number of Californa License plates going up is a recipe for disaster.

Colorado Cowboy
02-19-2012, 01:37 PM
Trust me I have been involed in meeting with game and fish, politicians. I have wrote many letters and posted my concers to get the wolves under control if not stopped, because I agree they are hurting the population of wild life.

The more people know about a good hunting area the more people want to hunt it. The will become over hunted and the population will go down.

It won't become over hunted if the tag numbers stay the same. Points required will undoubtly increase, but this has nothing to do with how many people hunt an area. Wolves are anothe subject. Wyoming had the right idea with their first management plan that the fed idsapproved. Treat them like any predator...shoot on sight. I've seen firsthand what the wolves can do. If (and when) they get here to Colorado, thats what I intend to do.

sellout
02-19-2012, 01:40 PM
I hope that Colorado will be able to take care of the wolves before they become a problem like they are in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana

Tenmilestyle
02-19-2012, 02:21 PM
I believe most states game dept. can't and will not act in time to manage a declining areas wildlife. States will not cut across the board due to loss of revenue. So some of the most depleted areas get some dosing of quota cuts. I beleive state revenue is put higher than game management. I live in a state that is living proof of this! All through the 80's and early 90's Mule deer tag quota's stayed very high or gained tags. All the time habitat was disapearing,then a series of major winter kill ratio's. The tag numbers in some of the most desirable units stayed high for another 3-5 years after. Almost wiping out gene pools that produced some of OR best bucks.
As far as magazines like eastmans effecting hunting,there is no doubt finding a honey hole that will last for many years is way less likley in these days. We live in an information age! With so many tools to help people spread knowlegde and secrets about hunting it is drawing more people outdoors,wich in the long run might save hunting all together.

Drhorsepower
02-19-2012, 02:40 PM
I hope that Colorado will be able to take care of the wolves before they become a problem like they are in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana


Dear Eastmans.

Can someone block this guy. I think it is husky musky under another screen name. We don't need negative attitudes on the best forum on the web! This forum is not made to bicker. It is intended to learn and educate folks. Not debating. the atmosphere is pretty mellow around here and that's how we like it.

Ikeepitcold
02-19-2012, 02:43 PM
Dear Eastmans.

Can someone block this guy. I think it is husky musky under another screen name. We don't need negative attitudes on the best forum on the web! This forum is not made to bicker. It is intended to learn and educate folks. Not debating. the atmosphere is pretty mellow around here and that's how we like it.

Here Here! Dr I agree. Lets keep this forum to a positive attitude!

sellout
02-19-2012, 02:56 PM
This is not huskey musky. Arn't forums to let people share thier opinion and thought on topics??? And all I am trying to do is let people know that the Mule deer in Wyoming are on the decline and some of the reasons why. Would you want to spent the money for a out of state tag, to find out that all the info of the area you have been reading about is not true. Or would you want to know the facts before hand??

Colorado Cowboy
02-19-2012, 03:06 PM
This is not huskey musky. Arn't forums to let people share thier opinion and thought on topics??? And all I am trying to do is let people know that the Mule deer in Wyoming are on the decline and some of the reasons why. Would you want to spent the money for a out of state tag, to find out that all the info of the area you have been reading about is not true. Or would you want to know the facts before hand??

I'd sure like to know the areas you say are have been lied about. How about some specifics!!

Bitterroot Bulls
02-19-2012, 03:12 PM
sellout,

I, for one, hope you stick around. I understand your frustration with your hunting area being "discovered." That happens with or without a magazine or a forum. This forum is pretty tight. Maybe somebody here can help you get on to some deer during these lean times. Maybe you can help somebody here out as well.

Mule deer numbers are cyclical. They should rebound, maybe not to their former greatness, but still better. Hunters sticking together is going to be the biggest help. Hunters have always been big game's best friend.

I posted my thoughts on some misinformation (IMO) on Montana, including some overly optimistic information on some units. I posted about it in the MRS section of the Forum. Maybe you could do something similar in the WY MRS forum.

jenbickel
02-19-2012, 03:13 PM
I don't think it's magazines like eastmans that causes the deer population decrease. It's definitely has to do with winter kills and predator kills. Even if eastmans says where it is good to hunt, does not make an area over hunted. Most of the areas that are good hunting are hard to draw areas. The game and fish isn't going to give out more tags just because the area is popular. I don't have a problem at all telling people where my honey holes are. Also, out of staters that are looking to hunt here in wyoming shouldn't just go off of what a magazine says. It's a good place to start but if you are wanting even better information, there's no better way than to go straight to the source. By that, I mean drive to wyoming and do your own research.

gatheringsheds
02-19-2012, 03:15 PM
If none of us replied to sellout perhaps he will just fade away.

sellout
02-19-2012, 03:19 PM
This year's hard winter killed more deer in western Wyoming than the Wyoming Game and Fish Department has seen in years.

Preliminary results show the Sublette deer herd lost between 45 and 60 percent of its mule deer fawns and the Wyoming Range herd lost as many as 75 percent of its fawns. Those are some of the worst losses recorded in the Wyoming Range herd since 1990, according to a Game and Fish release.

The numbers are also a minimum, since some deer will keep dying from depleted reserves even as spring continues.

Game and Fish also conducted a survey of all deer carcasses using volunteers to canvass deer habitat. This year's survey, completed this month, showed more than 400 dead deer in the Wyoming herd, the highest number since the early 1990s.

The fawn loss could impact hunting for the next few seasons. Officials already proposed limiting the hunting season for the Sublette mule deer herd to three days, taking away the last weekend of the general season and eliminating the "any deer" season in some areas.

For more information contact the Jackson Game and Fish office at 307-733-2321 or the Pinedalen Game and Fish office at 307-367-4353, or visit the Game and Fish website.



Read more: http://trib.com/news/opinion/blogs/outdoors/article_4b603d02-88b9-11e0-9cc5-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1mrgrSTLe

jenbickel
02-19-2012, 03:24 PM
Is that where you live? I'm just curious as to how different your winter has been there as compared to here. We have had an unbelievably mild winter but I wonder about the rest of the state. I'm also waiting for one of our nasty march storms...May mess up a lot!

sellout
02-19-2012, 03:28 PM
HARVEST REPORTS for 2011 are not out yet.

jenbickel yes our winter has been very mild this year. For now it has been easy on the deer this winter, but if we do not get the snow or spring rain there will not be any feed for the next winter

Ikeepitcold
02-19-2012, 03:48 PM
I don't think it's magazines like eastmans that causes the deer population decrease. It's definitely has to do with winter kills and predator kills. Even if eastmans says where it is good to hunt, does not make an area over hunted. Most of the areas that are good hunting are hard to draw areas. The game and fish isn't going to give out more tags just because the area is popular. I don't have a problem at all telling people where my honey holes are. Also, out of staters that are looking to hunt here in wyoming shouldn't just go off of what a magazine says. It's a good place to start but if you are wanting even better information, there's no better way than to go straight to the source. By that, I mean drive to wyoming and do your own research.

So true. We have all had our secret spots found by others but like she said the mags are a place to start. Someone else was probably hunting your spot before you did and it was their honey hole.

sellout
02-19-2012, 04:03 PM
For those of you who do not understand the point of all this, I am not saying it is all the magazine fault, the game and fish, and winter kills also play a part of the decline. I am also saying that if you want to hunt a big deer wyoming is not the place anymore Now if Eastman's came out with an story in the mangazine and said that the hunting in a area is bad no deer would you put in for that area?? NO. Now if they come out and say this is the greatest place to hunt would you put in for it? Yes. That is one way that areas get over hunted. The game and fish are more inerested in the money than they are about the deer, that is why they give so many tags. If people would stop talking the area up and stop putting in for the area the game and fish might stop selling so many tags.

buckbull
02-19-2012, 04:56 PM
sellout, I think you are over simplying the issue. Most of the limited entry units for nonresidents take multiple preference points to have a chance at drawing a tag. Just because Wyoming may have a bad year for deer doesn't mean I'm going to stop applying and lose my 4 years worth of points. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think there will always be a higher demand for tags than the number of tags available.

sellout
02-19-2012, 05:02 PM
I am not saying that only non resident overr hunt the areas because the residents hunt it as well. In some of these area a resident can buy a tay over the counter. If you want to put that is fine just be prepared to not see very many deer, and not very big deer. Good Luck

Not all of Eastman's magazine write ups are bad some are truthful, In the new jounernal for Feb/ Mar in the wyoming section Guy Eastman has a good write up about Mule deer in wyoming. He says the deer are at a 30 year low, and "would consider holding out on applying for a deer tag this year in the cowboy state".

Musket Man
02-19-2012, 08:28 PM
sellout. Have you read the MRS for this year for Wyoming? You are not saying anything about the deer decline thats not in it.

MWScott72
02-21-2012, 10:34 AM
In a perfect world, tag quotas are not set by "unit popularity", rather they are set based on the biological health of the herd and what level of hunting it can support and still maintain a healthy balance. Game managers & biologists are human like the rest of us and simply get it wrong sometimes...but, I believe that they are trying their best to get things right (just like the rest of us). If a magazine like Eastmans recommends an area as a good unit, that recommendation is not going to lead to overhunting because the quotas are set independent of Eastmans (or any other magazine's) recommendation. The tags offered are based on what the herd should be able to support - not hunter popularity. It does affect the draw odds however, and that unit that used to take only a point or two to draw could double or triple in points required for the tag. I found it very interesting this year in talking to antelope biologists in WY that some of the "blue chip" units recommended by Eastmans were not held in the same high esteem by many of these biologists. That's where Eastmans recommendation to "do your homework" comes into play.

honeybadger
02-21-2012, 07:33 PM
I am from western wyo and it is sad that the deer population has dropped, hopefully WGF will do something about

jjenness
02-22-2012, 04:08 PM
Its sounds like things are pretty bad down there Sellout. I think that you should do your part and not hunt the deer in your state this year, and that will at least be one more deer left for next year. Hopefully other people take your example to heart, and most everbody will stop hunting deer in WY until the cycle relplenishes itself. I will be sure to post pictures of the deer that I shoot this year to help tide you over.

MT Muley
02-22-2012, 10:37 PM
I think another reason for the decline of Mule Deer is the increase of people running around the mountains all winter, letting their dogs chase deer around through the heavy snow. I have personally seen this happening in the Bridgers for years now, and saw a dismal amount of deer on my Bridger buck hunt last fall. There are so many factors decreasing the population, I have a hard time seeing them come back. I sure hope I'm wrong though.

Shooter
02-23-2012, 02:58 AM
No magazine has anything to do witht he decline of deer in western wy. Take a look at the record books. G, H, and K are no secrets.

Jon Boy
02-23-2012, 10:18 AM
I think another reason for the decline of Mule Deer is the increase of people running around the mountains all winter, letting their dogs chase deer around through the heavy snow. I have personally seen this happening in the Bridgers for years now, and saw a dismal amount of deer on my Bridger buck hunt last fall. There are so many factors decreasing the population, I have a hard time seeing them come back. I sure hope I'm wrong though.

Thats why I dont start shed hunting early if its a rough winter. So far its been really mild and the deer seem to be in good shape so ive started early.

RUTTIN
02-23-2012, 09:43 PM
I think another big problem with deer mortality, that a lot of people don't take into account are vehicle mortality also. I know a few of the areas I see in my travels with work, the deer come down into the more populated areas to winter. (there is another problem, people building on winter range) And people don't look out for the deer.

Drhorsepower
02-24-2012, 12:09 AM
I think another big problem with deer mortality, that a lot of people don't take into account are vehicle mortality also. I know a few of the areas I see in my travels with work, the deer come down into the more populated areas to winter. (there is another problem, people building on winter range) And people don't look out for the deer.

I read an article in a magazine about a year ago regarding vehicle deaths. I don't remember the unit/road/ or exact statistics but it really brought into perspective how many deer are killed by vehicles. They kept track on 30 something miles on a highway in a hunt unit and I want to say they averaged a deer killed a day and that unit issues something like 40 tags or something like that. 365:40. I didn't really realizw how many deaths by vehicles occurred.

brandenbowhunter
02-24-2012, 06:03 PM
I agree that Eastman's MRS had made it harder to draw tags...part of the game...
Hunting TV shows have ruined a lot of hunting too...but that is the day we live in

sjsmallfield
02-26-2012, 02:33 AM
[QUOTE=but that is the day we live in[/QUOTE]

Exactly!!!

iowashedhunter
02-26-2012, 12:42 PM
If you want to see a deer decline from overhunting just look at what Iowa has done to our whitetail herd in the last 4 years.They have been slaughtering the doe hers relentlessly and now no one can figure out where all the deer went? REALLY?? I would be willing to bet that weather plays a much bigger role in mule deer decline then hunting does along with habitat loss.

Roughneck Country
02-29-2012, 08:21 AM
Eastmans is just a resource to use to find info like any other. If people didn't pick a few things up here and there from the mag they would get it other places. I know eastmans is only one of several sources I use. The internet, forms like this one and even info found on outfitter web sites is used. I know I have scouted out places from pictures I have seen posted before as well. Don't blame Eastmans for a deer decline, at the end of the day it is fish and game that needs to set quota's and manage the population.