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View Full Version : Making 1000yrd shot is not what I call hunting. Your thoughts



Elkcrazedfrk
03-09-2011, 06:22 PM
So..After watching an episode of Best of the West and listening to all those guys promote their "Super scopes" is about to put me into a fit of rage. Shoot'n critters 1000+ yrds away is not what hunting is about is my opinion. They preach of adjusting their scopes for windage that they detect...Well heres a novel thought....You really think the wind is blowing the same on the other side of the canyon over 1000 yards away?????? Isn't half the hunt making the stalk. What are your thoughts? Sorry, but I had to vent.

mntnguide
03-09-2011, 06:30 PM
+1..I dont believe its right to be risking a wounded animal when so many variables you cannot control are at play. I am sure for every animal killed at that distance plenty more are wounded and not talked about...Congrats to guys who can make those shots, but i believe those shots should be at paper and metal plates only. not live animals.

Firearrow
03-09-2011, 06:53 PM
I feel the sameway about guys taking 78 yard shot with there bow, on tv, and bragging about it. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Elkcrazedfrk
03-09-2011, 09:03 PM
Amen...As true hunters e owe the animals way more respect than that..

Elkoholic307
03-09-2011, 09:53 PM
I'm pro long range but I don't care for BOTW. They push Huskemaw so much it's getting really annoying. They act like you have to have a Huskemaw to make long distance shots. They have big egos and their ideas aren't even original. Anyway, wounding animals is part of the game; especially with bowhunting. I can't tell you how many times I've turned on the tube and watched a deer get shot in the guts by a bow and arrow. I've actually been surprised several times that they showed it on tv. Unfortunately, I've also seen it first hand by other people at close ranges with a rifle. A lot of it depends on one's ability and the knowledge of their weapon. Everyone has wounded one at some point, but I have become so obsessed with my rifles that I know what my limitations are. I have taken and will continue to take a lot of game out to, and eventually past 800 yards. Patience is huge, I don't take shots I'm not comfortable with. It just depends on the situation and the variables you mentioned. Bottom line: Shooting 1k is awesome.

jjs4429
03-09-2011, 10:35 PM
I believe it is each hunters choice.I don't shoot over 300yds with my rifle or 40yds with my bow at game .I practice shooting farther than that.My hunting partner is in to longe range shooting and shoots out to 600yds all the time and is very comfortable with it.

ceby7
03-09-2011, 11:03 PM
Bottom line: Shooting 1k is awesome.

What's so awesome about it? What does it prove? Does it prove your not capable of getting any closer? I don't care how much skill someone has or how much they practice, or how patient they are. None of those are even relevant. It's all about what is ethical and what is not. Unfortunatley, ethics vary from person to person.

Livesilly
03-09-2011, 11:28 PM
I think its a personal choice for each hunter. Its nothing over 300/40 for me...

trkytrack
03-10-2011, 12:30 AM
Completely irresponsible. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to the Chuck Adams shooters too.

RUTTIN
03-10-2011, 08:27 AM
For me that is why I bow hunt, I love the thrill of having to get close.

Elkoholic307
03-10-2011, 09:13 AM
What's so awesome about it? What does it prove? Does it prove your not capable of getting any closer? I don't care how much skill someone has or how much they practice, or how patient they are. None of those are even relevant. It's all about what is ethical and what is not. Unfortunatley, ethics vary from person to person.

It proves that all the time and money that I've put into my rigs has paid off. This isn't holding over the back with a regular old duplex reticle or even with the Nikon BDC stuff. This is precision shooting. How is skill, practice and patience not relevant?

For the record, I am not taking 1k shots at animals because I am not prepared yet; although I have whacked rocks and gongs at that distance. Right now, 800 is my max range. I've recently taken a whitetail buck at 754, a doe antelope at 785, and a cow elk at 760. All one shots kills.

Maybe I think bowhunting is unethical? Or I could think that because my ability with a bow is non-existant? If I hunted with a bow I would probably be one of those guys who went home to let the deer lay in the woods overnight with an arrow sticking half way in the guts. But, I don't hunt with a bow and never will... because I have no skill or interest with them. When that big buck pops out across the canyon at 600 yards, there's no doubt that he's getting both front shoulders broken by a 180 grain Triple Shock.

T43
03-10-2011, 10:23 AM
I guess I'm somewhat neutral on the issue. I have a problem with anyone who puts the chance at an animal above their ability. I don't know that range matters. I have shot steel out to 1500 yards and it was a blast (pun intended) but the gun I was using would not be practical in the field. If people can shoot 1000 yard and make a kill shot without question that doesn't really bother me. I remember having an old relative of mine give me a hard time because I shot with a scope. Is sitting on a rock at 1000 yards shooting an unsuspecting animal any less ethical than sitting in a tree shooting an unsuspecting animal. Neither animal has any clue they are in danger and either hunter has a chance at making a bad shot. For me being out hiking, pushing myself, experiencing views and situations that very few ever have is what hunting is about. A shot at an animal is an added bonus.

The real question I have is, as technology increases peoples ability to make quality long range shots will also increase, at what point will the ethical line be drawn? Some of you have said it has been drawn already and a 1000 yard shot is beyond the limit of ethical hunting. If that is the case then at what distance does ethics become a factor and why? Is it because you don't feel comfortable beyond that distance even though someone else may?

elkmtngear
03-10-2011, 10:37 AM
Not to de-rail the thread, but since you mentioned 1000 yd shots, here is a story everybody should read. This guy deserves a Salute from America, he is a real American Hero!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363432/85-year-old-U-S-Army-sniper-veteran-proves-lost-skills-picks-target-1-000-yards.html

Best of Luck,
Jeff

arrowslinger21
03-10-2011, 12:18 PM
It is legal, and if you can make the shot every time it is ethical too, but I don't see the challenge in it. How hard is it to get 1000 yards from an animal? It's not very challenging in my opinion, and I think it would be cool to be able to do it on a range, but even if I could i doubt I would want to use that kind of a shot in the field. I don't mind shots out to 350 or 400 yards at times, especially in big country where you might have to shoot from one ridge across to the adjacent one, and that is as close as your stalk gets you. I bow hunt personally, and I feel fine with taking shots out to 60 or 70 yards, but only because I practice everyday. Even though 70 yards isn't that close in the scheme of bow and arrows, shooting 70 yards is sometimes the only option in steep and open country. I try to get as close as possible before I shoot. I just don't think that those guys shooting 1000 yards really can't get any closer than they already are.

Elkcrazedfrk
03-10-2011, 02:00 PM
One of the major points I was trying to make; Is there really that much sport in whacking an animal at 800 yrds. The animal your shooting and I stress shooting cause it sure isnt hunting or stalking, doesn't have a chance. Aside from the bragg'n rights that you can make a long distance shot; what else do you have. Save it for the varmints and have a little respect for the game animals that we are blessed to hunt not just shoot.

T43
03-10-2011, 02:18 PM
Is there any more sport shooting an animal from a tree stand?

Sharpstick
03-10-2011, 02:38 PM
For me that is why I bow hunt, I love the thrill of having to get close.

I agree totally with RUTTIN. The reason why I bow hunt is the rush I get when an animal is within spitting distance. The closer the better because the thrill becomes more intense. I remember getting so close to a bull elk once that his drool after he bugled was dropping just a couple feet from my boot. I have had fawns walk up to me and smell my pant leg...what a thrill. With that said, everyone gets their thrill in different ways and forms. As hunters, we are strong when we stand together. I really have no motivation to knock an animal down at 1000 yards, but that's okay for others as long as they have paid the price of the tag and know their limitations. There will always be a small percentage of "so-called hunters" who give us all a bad rap because the go way beyond their limitations.

Jerry
03-10-2011, 03:06 PM
First, I am not trying to step on any toes or cast any stones, just wanted to state my opinion!
I just watched the show "Long Distance Pursuit" where they shot a speed goat at 750 yards along with several other kills from 300 to 450 yards, including a shot buy the hosts 12 year old son. While all were clean kills, I still have to question the wisdom of putting this on TV. Sure there are many people that have put in the time and expense to learn how to shoot these ranges, but to the average hunter watching this, he sees a 12 year old kid make the shot and figures I can too. I applaud the shooters who can consistently make these shots, but I still thinks it sends the wrong message.
I suppose that the term "average hunter" isn't fair, seeing how I would consider myself an average hunter, But we all know the hunter that buys a rifle and a tag and calls himself a hunter and without any thought to skill level or practicing goes hunting. these are the type of hunters that will see this and say me too! I personally have walked away from many bucks because I don't feel comfortable shooting extreme distances. 350 to 400 is about my limit.
Go ahead and take your long shots, but don't glorify or advertise.
Gun ranges and shooting matches are made for this type of activity and there is no chance of "wounding" a target.

Mike
03-10-2011, 03:37 PM
I have to weigh in on this long range shooting. #1. At 800 yards, if you do make a bad shot and wound the elk, what next? Now the elk at 800 plus yards is running. A follow up shot at 800 or 900 yards! Right! #2. A wounded animal 800 yards or more is leaving the country. Now the hunter has to cross the canyon, creek, or down the mountain. So how long will it take this long range shooter to close the distance? I know from my hunting experience that a wounded elk has long legs and leaves the country. Just those two points alone makes shooting long distances unreliable for me. Mike

ceby7
03-10-2011, 03:57 PM
Is there any more sport shooting an animal from a tree stand?

Uhh, ya. Ever heard of scent control? How about positioning for a shot without being detected? Sitting for hours without moving or making noise? Those don't matter 1000 yds. away. Hell, I might as well plop myself in a lawnchair, sip on a cocktail, and wait till that elk comes walking out in the next county!

T43
03-10-2011, 04:39 PM
Sitting for hours without moving or making noise? plop myself in a lawnchair, sip on a cocktail, and wait till that elk comes walking out in the next county!

Neither requires stalking ability but one is somehow better than the other? Picking a place for a stand, setting it up, waiting for a shot etc. all takes skill but so does being able to shoot great distances with success. As mentioned before I don't hunt long range, I don't have the equipment nor do I want it. I enjoy getting to the animals and being out in the wilderness. I feel comfortable at 400 yards if the conditions are perfect but they seldom are and I have passed up shots closer than that because of it. If we want to have more people join our group (hunters) I think we need to be careful where we draw the "that's not ethical" line. The greatest concern I would have is wasting an animal but that happens, with short range shots from arrows as well. Anyone who has hunted very long has lost an animal and its bad there is no other way to describe the feeling. While you may have a problem with someone who shoots 1000 yard they may also have a problem with you "Sitting for hours without moving" and calling it hunting.

shed
03-10-2011, 05:18 PM
If I could make my arrows fly that far and hit the mark, just maybe,,,, not. I guess there are some that can make the shot, but my rifle does not want to cooperate with me. I still think that it is too risky unless an animal is bedded. Even then the vitals are somewhat protected most of the time.

Guy
03-10-2011, 06:24 PM
For me getting close and making a clean, ethical kill is not only part of the skill of hunting it is part of the responsibly we take on as hunters. I know things happen and animals will get wounded, it's part of hunting but I think we all need to do what we can to make sure it happens as infrequently as possible. I wounded a big buck deer about ten years ago by blowing his front leg off with a 650-yard shot. And I have been trained in long-range shooting and can make that shot all day long at the range. I looked for that buck everyday until the end of the hunting season, never found him. He without a doubt died somewhere, like no big buck should have to. Still feel like crap about it and decided right then and there to not to do it again. Shooting 1,000 yards at the range can be a great time, but I don't think big game animals should be used as target practice. I have had the great fortune to take seven Boone and Crockett qualifying big game animals in my life, probably more than any man should be given. All of them were taken at less than 300 yards with an average of only 189 yards each. I guess it just goes to show you don't need to shoot 1,000 yards to kill trophies. Just do what you think is right for the animal, you are taking his life. Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Codes
03-10-2011, 08:38 PM
I was watching a show (it will be nameless for now) and the hunter said I dont think we can get any closer we better take the shot. It was over 1000 yds on a elk in a open meadow, completly surrounded by tree lines. First off all why couldnt you get any closer? And if for some reason you couldnt get any closer, set up your spotter and see if there is a pattern in what he does and make a move on him at that point. I dont care how much you practice there are to many variables that come into effect with a shot at that range. We all know that "wounding" an animal happens. But there sure isnt as many variables in a 100 yd shot as there is in a 1000yd shot. Everyone should know their weapon of choice and no their limitations. Limitations on the range and in the field are completly different and dont forget that.

And I agree with the poster before about what a show like this teaches people. How many people do you think watch the show and see how "easy" long distance shooting is and go out and buy a set-up like the one on the show. You can only imagine the outcome of a situation like this.

homegrown
03-10-2011, 09:31 PM
with all do respect it is a individual choice I know I couldnt make a 1000 yrd shot and so I dont try but if you pay attention to the BOTW program those guys spend a ton of time building a perfect rest and waiting for the perfect shot yea there is a chance that things could go bad but I have had shots I thought were a slam dunk and something went wrong I think anybody who is honest could say the same thing. No body likes a wounded animal but it happens. I think its awsome to slip in close to a animal but I could see how it would be cool to make a long range sniper shot as well.

Shane
03-10-2011, 10:26 PM
If all the closer you can get is 600 to 1000 yards on any animal, you need to work on your hunting skills. There is a difference between shooting and hunting and they should remain in different areas. I have seen guys who shoot thousands of rounds a year at the range out to 1000 yards and further and are good miss a shot at an animal at 150 yards because they are not prepared for the emotions. I just dont see any point in the distance shots. If I can get with in 15 yards of a screaming bull or a very skidish speed goat with my bow (and I am terrible at sneaking in, but with patience it has been done), a rifle hunter should be able to get closer than 600 yards easily. I rifle hunt too and can get with in 600 yards with out trying real hard, it just takes a little planing

NDHunter
03-10-2011, 10:34 PM
There is absolutely no way that a 1,000 yard is an ethical shot in the field, in fact it shouldn't even be a debate. I did just a little bit of researching online about it and while I am most definitely not an expert, and I can't verify what some guys have said, here is what a few guys said:

-With a 30 fps change in muzzle velocity at 1,000 yards, it would result in hitting 10 inches low.
-The bullet will drop about 22 feet.
-It will take roughly 1.5 seconds or so for the bullet to get there.
-With a 10 mph crosswind, the bullet can drift from 6-10 feet.

Soooo, what if your bullet doesn't come out of the barrel at exactly the velocity that you expect it to? What if you range the animal at 1,000 yards, but it is actually 1,020 yards. I don't know how much that bullet will drop in 20 yards, but that far out, I'll bet it is more than 6 or 8 inches. What about the 1.5 seconds that it takes for the bullet to get there? What if the animal takes 1 step forward and now the bullet hits the guts.
I agree that it'd be cool to try shooting at a 1,000 yards, but ONLY on the range. There is absolutely no way that any hunter should EVER even consider a shot like that.

Elkcrazedfrk
03-11-2011, 12:43 AM
I'm happy to see that most here agree with me on this one. I appreciate everyones opinion. Those who are ok with making the "long" shot on an animal are really missing out on what "hunting" is all about. I've been a bow hunter most of my life here in Wyoming. Always been a spot and stalk guy. I feel very blessed to have expierenced many many encounters with animals at close range (2 to 60yrds) Some resulting in a successful harvest, but most have been the highs and lows of a missed opportunity. I wouldn't give those times up for anything. Good luck to all this fall. Thanks for all the discussion towards this thread.

Elkoholic307
03-11-2011, 08:16 AM
I don't think I am "missing out" on what hunting is all about. We just have different interests; you can keep hunting with your bow and I'll keep hunting with my LR rifles. To each his own.

Elkoholic307
03-11-2011, 07:01 PM
I have to weigh in on this long range shooting. #1. At 800 yards, if you do make a bad shot and wound the elk, what next? Now the elk at 800 plus yards is running. A follow up shot at 800 or 900 yards! Right! #2. A wounded animal 800 yards or more is leaving the country. Now the hunter has to cross the canyon, creek, or down the mountain. So how long will it take this long range shooter to close the distance? I know from my hunting experience that a wounded elk has long legs and leaves the country. Just those two points alone makes shooting long distances unreliable for me. Mike

That is a valid point, Mike, although I disagree. An elk's will to live is incredible, but that is when their adrenaline kicks in. A gunshot at that range does not really spook elk, or deer for that matter. More often than not, after a long distance shot, they will just stand there looking around. It seems that they're not sure if the sound is dangerous or not. Also, the shot echoes and a lot of times they don't know which way to run. So, #1. If I did make a bad shot, I would most likely have a follow up shot, or the elk would just lay down and eventually die because of no adrenaline to push it. #2. If the elk does run off, there's just as much a chance it runs toward you, than away from you. My hunting experiences have shown me these examples several times. It is pretty funny to watch animals when they aren't sure what to do.

Elkoholic307
03-11-2011, 07:48 PM
As I read thru this thread, “too many variables” seems to be the popular phrase. I’m curious to know what everyone means by that. I would say one variable is human error or inability. The people that shoot once a year right before hunting season could be a variable because they’re not proficient with their weapon. But my guess is, it’s mainly wind and time of flight. I am aware of both. Do you think I only shoot at far distances when the conditions are perfect? It doesn’t matter if it is still out or blowing 15 mph, I am still out shooting and will compensate for whatever necessary because I have the data and equipment to do so. At long range, a hunter has a lot of time for proper preparation and time to find a solid rest. The hunter also has time to study the animal, hence the patience to take the shot at the right time.

You can get close to almost anything, but what about when you can't? It's not like long range rifles can only shoot long range. I still try to get in close for the shot, but reality is sometimes you can't. And, when I can't, I know I can still make the shot farther away. Trust me, confidence in yourself and your weapon is a great feeling. Years ago, I watched my brother pass up a 600 yard shot on a B&C bull elk. At that point in time, I wasn’t prepared for that range either. But, now I am; and I believe it’s going to give me a big advantage.

Long range obviously isn’t for everyone. We reload to squeeze every ounce of accuracy out of our rifles. We use high quality equipment from rangefinders, to wind meters, to levels, and drop charts for proper bullet placement, etc.

If you can’t shoot long range or have no interest in it, that’s fine. Just don’t stand in the way of those that can.

Skybuster1329
03-11-2011, 07:52 PM
I couldn't agree more with Guy or Mike. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Elkoholic307
03-11-2011, 08:12 PM
That's it?

Shane
03-11-2011, 08:25 PM
You can get close to almost anything, but what about when you can't? It's not like long range rifles can only shoot long range. I still try to get in close for the shot, but reality is sometimes you can't. And, when I can't, I know I can still make the shot farther away.

Not sure how to make the little quote bubble but the above was was posted by Elkoholic

If you can't get any closer than 1000 yds, 800 yds, 600 yds, or even in most cases 400 yds you aren't really trying very hard. I have never had a case when that was as close as I could get. I have walked 2+ miles extra to close that distance, that is was hunting is all about, not saying i can't because it will require too much extra work.

ceby7
03-11-2011, 08:50 PM
I've recently taken a whitetail buck at 754, a doe antelope at 785, and a cow elk at 760. All one shots kills.



You just said that you still try and get close, but sometimes you can't, yet you've "recently" killed 3 animals past 750 yrds. You must not try that hard. It's clear that in this argument you're not going to change your mind and neither am I. I've stated my opinion and I will leave it at that.

NDHunter
03-11-2011, 10:45 PM
Elkoholic, are you Jim Burnworth?

jhpam3117
03-12-2011, 08:29 AM
I agree! Just because you can hit something at 1000 yards doesn't mean you should shoot an animal at 1000 yards. The energy lost and the variables to consider make it a very risky shot. For me the fun of hunting is to see how close I can get to an animal (esp. for bow season). My .300 RUM can shoot out to 1100+ yards but the energy the bullet looses is too great of a risk in dropping the animal. Anything over 700 yards for me requires additional stalking.

T43
03-12-2011, 09:29 AM
This is getting more interesting with every post. For the most part people don't like 1000 yard shots but the distances they are comfortable with varies a lot. Like I have said before I am not comfortable much past 400 yards with my current set up. Some of you say you would take a 600 or 700 yard shot but not a 1000 yard shot. Why? I know most 1000 yard hunters have a lot of gadgetry to help them place the shot exactly where they want it but I wonder how many of you that would shoot 600 or 700 yards are using nothing more than a guess at a holdover. That in my mind would be worse. I suppose my real question has yet to be answered. What is that magic number where the ethical line is drawn?

dito
03-12-2011, 10:24 AM
Hey Elkaholic what kind of range finder do you use? I don't think I'll be shooting over 400 yards. But it does help to be able to range stuff from far out.

Elkoholic307
03-12-2011, 01:15 PM
I'm currently using the Zeiss Victory PRF but I was using Swarovski and Leica in previous seasons. All three are great.

Rob
03-12-2011, 01:49 PM
Reading all these posts I figure I might as well add my 2 cents. First of all growing up in Iowa where we were limited to shotguns that at the time had a 100 yd range. If we were allowed to use rifles my walls would be full a giant bucks, but wait a minute, there wouldn't be any giant bucks because everyone would have rifles and the big old bucks sneaking away at 400 yds would be too easy of a target. I know this argument will never end and to each his own, but for me hunting is the challenge of out-witting an animal on his terms and getting as close as I possibly can. If the animal blows out of there before I get within 400 yds rifle or 50 yds bow then the animal wins and I will learn from my mistakes and move on.

bern0134
03-12-2011, 02:25 PM
Shooting a 1000 yards is an awesome feat. I am no where near the capability of shooting that far much less do I feel comfortable at shooting at anything beyond 250 yards. However I would like to be comfortable at shooting distances out to 600 yards but paper and steel only. That way I could be comfortable at shooting an animal to out to 400-450 yards. But keep in mind those shooters/hunters (what ever you want to call them) on BOTW get paid and have the equipment to shoot at those distances. Its their job to be able to shoot those distances. How many of us can afford the setups they own really? We all have our own ethics when it comes to hunting which is the reason for the mixed opinions. It would be interesting to see everyone's setups that have made a comment on this thread. By the way my largest elk and mule deer were shot within 125 yards. Well within my comfort zone. Sorry just wanted to put in my 2 cents (which is why I joined this forum). Good Luck on your draws this year

dito
03-12-2011, 06:28 PM
I'm currently using the Zeiss Victory PRF but I was using Swarovski and Leica in previous seasons. All three are great.

Which would you say is the best out of all 3?

Elkoholic307
03-13-2011, 10:15 AM
The Swaro will probably give you the most consistent readings at 1k+ but the Zeiss is definitely quicker and gives solid readings under 1k and also has a scan mode. The Leica model I was using was the 1200; I imagine they made improvements to the 1600. The 1200 was still good, just falls short to the other two.

The Swaro is probably better but the Zeiss is more compact and extremely clear. And, like I said, gives reading very, very fast and also has the scan mode where you can hold down the button and it will continually give you several readings. That way, you can double check, triple check, etc. and not get a 'false' reading that will throw your shot's placement off.

Booner
03-13-2011, 12:00 PM
I guess I really don't have a problem with how anyone hunts unless they are road hunting, on 4 wheelers chasing the game down to get a shot at it, or the people who blaze away at anything that moves and have no clue what ethics are. Most people who shoot long range have the equipment to do it. I understand that there are probably a lot of people who try those long shots and have no clue what they are doing. I respect the people who do know what they are doing. I don't have the equipment to shoot that far, 500 is my limit but have only shot that far once. I figured a rough estimate that most of my shots have been under 300 with probably 70% under 250. Of my biggest trophies, 8 were all under 300 except 1.


What about running shots? Where do you draw the line there?

Elkcrazedfrk
03-13-2011, 01:05 PM
Wow..I didn't expect this big of a response. After reading through all the posts I was initally frustrated in knowing how little chance an animal has when they are gett'n whacked from so far away. I guess what I really need to remember is that some are satisfied with that and there is really nothing I can do about it. What I can do is hold my head high knowing that I put the odds in the favor of every animal I hunt. The trophies I have harvested were earned by my ability to successfully hunt them and thats something to be cherished.

Booner
03-13-2011, 01:54 PM
You are right Elkcrazedfrk, there is nothing you can do about it. I think maybe everyone might think about this a little more when they are making that shot at long range knowing there are a lot of people who do really have and issue with it. But it's not going to stop them.

Elkoholic307
03-13-2011, 10:58 PM
Give it a rest, you guys are acting like it's a sin!

elktracker
03-13-2011, 11:52 PM
That is a valid point, Mike, although I disagree. An elk's will to live is incredible, but that is when their adrenaline kicks in. A gunshot at that range does not really spook elk, or deer for that matter. More often than not, after a long distance shot, they will just stand there looking around. It seems that they're not sure if the sound is dangerous or not. Also, the shot echoes and a lot of times they don't know which way to run. So, #1. If I did make a bad shot, I would most likely have a follow up shot, or the elk would just lay down and eventually die because of no adrenaline to push it. #2. If the elk does run off, there's just as much a chance it runs toward you, than away from you. My hunting experiences have shown me these examples several times. It is pretty funny to watch animals when they aren't sure what to do.

Elkoholic307, how can you say Mike has a valid point but then disagree? To me you are saying you agree with Mike's comment but you just don't care because you would rather take the long shot and risk wounding an elk and not recovering it. (Not trying to put words in your mouth, that's just what I got out of your comment) Why not just get closer and take a shot that is more likely to put the elk down and where you could actually make a follow up shot if the animal bolts?
I am pretty sure any animal that gets hit with a bullet, whether or not it knows where the shot came from is going to take off and have its adrenalin up. I am sure they stand there looking around if you miss completely, but a wounded animal is not going to think about which way to run, they are just going to take off. If you are already a kilometer away, finding that blood trail could be pretty tough by the time you get over there.
By you saying that your experience has shown you these examples many times you are saying that you have not put an animal down on more than one occasion, and then you say that it's funny to watch them not know what to do?
I wasn't completely against long range shooting until I read this thread.

Elkoholic307
03-14-2011, 09:44 AM
Yep, I said he has a valid point; meaning I understand where he's coming from but disagree with his point. If you haven't noticed, I've given up on this thread. It's like beating a dead horse. This thread is probably the most dramatic one on the forum and I'll take the blame for that. I knew full well what Eastmans' view on long range was when I signed up for this forum and decided not to bring the topic up or post yardages with my pictures. But, then I seen this thread and couldn't help myself. Now, I've decided it's a waste of my time defending it here because nobody else seems to have experience. I'd have to re-read the thread but I think Guy was the only one with a legitimate point why he doesn't take long shots. Most everyone else's posts against it were getting repetitive and based on emotion, not facts.

Before now, I had never heard of this 'invisible ethical line' that stops at 400. That just seems ridiculous to me. Yesterday I went out and shot a 6.5" 3 shot group at 1210 yards. A month ago my dad shot a 1.5" inch group at 757 yards. I think it's unethical for people to be satisfied with a 2" group at 100 yards and take that rifle hunting. How many of them are going to jump a buck and try 'leading' it because it's running off. Or, how many are going to try holding over the back because the buck is 'around' 300 yards?

But, once again, I am wasting my time. It has come down to you don't care what I have to say, and I don't care what you have to say. All I know is my personal limitations. I don't need a lecture on ethics. I know what my equipment is capable of and I know what I am capable of.

Elkcrazedfrk
03-14-2011, 11:20 AM
Elkoholic has a good point. We are now beating a dead horse. So how about we all agree to disagree. I'll close by saying I'm right and Elkoholic is wrong..lol...I'm kidding. Spring is finally in the air, I'm headed out antler hunting.

T43
03-14-2011, 12:08 PM
How far will you shoot at one of them?

Jerry
03-14-2011, 02:11 PM
I'm beginning to think that this thread is immortal! Nothing can kill it! Doesn't seem to matter how CLOSE or FAR an argument is nothing can reach it!!! :)

xtreme
03-14-2011, 02:43 PM
I can't make the 1000yd shot, but I can make what I call a long shot. I am no longer able to walk very far so I practice through 600 yds and try to be 400 or closer for mule deer.
The older I get the farther I shoot.

Booner
03-14-2011, 06:42 PM
HAHA Jerrry, you are right, all it did was make everyone argue, this isn't the place for that. We are all hunters and should respect the way everyone hunts as long as it is legal.

Elkcrazedfrk
03-14-2011, 10:16 PM
Amen...Sorry for creating this MONSTER!!

MI-address-ROCKYMTN-heart
03-19-2011, 06:14 PM
I'm new to this website and the serious idea of western hunting. I am planning to hunting elk and mullies this fall in Colorado. I live in southwest MI and rifles are illegal where I live and hunt. For us, a LONG muzzleloader shot is 200 yards, shotgun is 125 yards and archery is 40 yards. That is pretty much the norm for us. We have the same debates that I'm reading about in this thread. My only real concern is that I or someone I know is not put in harms way while in the woods. I choose to believe that every hunter has the same high standards as I do while chasing game. That they will know the limits of their shooting abilities, physical conditioning, equipment, terrain, weather and game before they set up for a shot. Let alone before they squeeze the trigger. In doing so it helps me to keep my debatable opinions to myself. The results will speak for themselves and on those facts I will clearly point out if a person had a lapse in judgment if they would dare to tell the truth. If they desire to be ethical, then they wont need my observations. And if they're not, then my opinion wont matter.

I marvel that people can shoot accurately at 1000 yards. I am expecting to be competent up to 300 yards this fall. I do have one request. If you find yourself setting up for a long-range shot and you happen to notice another hunter stalking closer to "our" prey, who appears out of place. Don't shoot. It may be me and I probably wont know you're there. And it would SUCK to see my prize drop in front of me. Happy hunting.

mthuntress
03-20-2011, 01:44 AM
I shoot out to 800 yards with my 270 win. and the only animal that I'll shoot that far is a dog got to keep my friends beef cows alive lost to my calfs in the last 10 years.The only deer that I've shoot over 250 yards was at 550 and ONLY took the shoot was the other hunter wounded it and didn't follow through.talk about making me mad.

nebowhunter
03-20-2011, 11:36 AM
I have my own opinion on the matter, but that is not what is important. It is not for me to tell someone else what they can or cannot do as long as it is legal. We as outdoorsman shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves. This just gives those who want to do away with our sport more ammo when they are talking to that 80% that doesn't have an opinion either way.

CrimsonArrow
03-20-2011, 03:30 PM
This has been a great thread, with valid points on both sides. I think a hunter must decide for themselves how far to shoot, and the decision to shoot long range must be made with confidence that is based on experience. That being said, as a strict bowhunter, I personally need to feel a connection to any animal I hunt. I could never be satisfied with killing an animal from afar.

JeremyBatey
03-30-2011, 04:51 PM
I love to bow hunt, so this isn't really something I'll deal with personally, but I once witnessed my uncle drop a deer with a rifle from a tree rest at 320 paces. At the time, I didn't think much about it. I wasn't impressed with killing the deer at that range with a rifle. I was a young hunter, and wrote a story about it. Some people read it and sent me some comments. For probably 15 years, one particular comment never jumped out at me. But recently, as I read back over it, it suddenly did.

The reader said, "Your uncle must be a crack shot! I've never heard of anyone attempting an offhand neck shot on a deer at 320 paces with a .223."

My ego blinded me from the skill in what my uncle had achieved. He had told me later when I asked, "Why the neck?" that "I don't like them body shots. They mess up all the meat."

Hunting takes many shapes and forms. I'm learning to be careful of what I call "easy" and "hard".

mtmuley
04-01-2011, 11:21 AM
I agree completely. Taking a 1000 yard shot sort of takes the hunt out of hunting. Isn't part of the experience to pit yourself against the animal and challenge yourself.

T43
04-01-2011, 06:30 PM
How about this angle. The other day I was watching some long range hunting show and the shot they took was over a pretty good sized draw. Suddenly I had a thought (doesn't happen often but does happen). What would someone do if they were in said draw and had this 900+ yard shot go zinging over their head? I have been shot over in the field and I know the whip crack sound of a bullet going by so I started to wonder. With shots like these becoming more common how long until we see an increase in hunter conflicts. I'm still not going to say I'm against long range shots and I know close encounters of the stupid kind can happen at any distance but it did make me wonder if this may become a problem.

Elkoholic307
04-03-2011, 02:46 PM
Blaze orange is easily seen.

T43
04-03-2011, 03:00 PM
That may not be true depending on terrain. It is also not required in every state.

Elkoholic307
04-03-2011, 09:31 PM
I was referring to Wyo. since it's the only state I know. Either way, I don't see it becoming a problem. I see run 'n' gun hunting being more dangerous than long range hunting. You should see how people act when they have a handgun antelope tag in their pocket.

camodrifter
04-14-2011, 03:25 PM
if you cant get closer than 700 yards you really need to get out of your truck!

T43
04-14-2011, 03:41 PM
I think it is more about being able to shoot farther than it is about not being able to get closer. The challenge is more in the shot and less in the stock.

dank9879
04-14-2011, 08:24 PM
This is always a touchy subject I agree with Jerry when he says these shows promoting long range hunting may be sending the wrong message and making people think that anyone can go out and take long range shots at animals. I believe that long range shooting is a benefit of technology and I give props to those guys who can make those one shot kills at extended ranges (especially our US snipers). My question to those who so badly hate it is are you shooting the same rifle and Daniel Boone at the distances he hunted? Or are you shooting a modern sporting rifle with a scope. Are you using a traditional bow with no sights, shooting at 20 yards like the natives did? Or you using a modern compound bow with fiber optic sights? Yep technology. Just depends on how far each person wants to go with it.

MTWillie
04-14-2011, 10:47 PM
1000 yards at an exploding target, yes. At any animal, possibly one that could in return hunt you back, no.

ruttingbuck
04-15-2011, 08:22 PM
Long range shooting isn't MY definition of "Fair Chase". I take pride in getting as close to an animal as possible before making a precise shot. My shortest shot with a rifle is 17 yds on a 170ish mule deer and 2 yds with a bow on a whitetail doe (I was on the ground). Most of my shots are under 100 yards.

Maxhunter
05-01-2011, 10:29 AM
+1..I dont believe its right to be risking a wounded animal when so many variables you cannot control are at play. I am sure for every animal killed at that distance plenty more are wounded and not talked about...Congrats to guys who can make those shots, but i believe those shots should be at paper and metal plates only. not live animals.

Very well said! I personally think it's for instant gratification and look at me I'm a great hunter. There called shooters not hunters either it be bowhunting or gun hunting. I also feel they don't respect the animals they pursue. A lot of hunters see these DVDs and shows and will definitely attempt those shots and they can't hit an 8" plate at 20yds with a bow or a paper target at 200yds with a gun. I commend their ability on targets but not live animals!

tikkamike
05-10-2011, 12:35 PM
This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen on any forum. "ethical hunting" what is that? I love to hunt and shoot just as much as the next guy I respect the animals so to speak. In the sense that I have to outsmart them on their terms. Taking an animal is a satisfying feat in itself. HOWEVER if your all wanting to be fair to these animals, then the High Fencers are UNethical hunters, the animals cant leave. Aalso people who go out on a farm where the deer are used to seeing the farmer every morning are UNethical hunters because that deer never expected that in a million years (much like that deer at 1000 yards) that farmer John was just biding his time till the day he could come out with the ole’ 06 and blast one of those little furry fellers. Ppeople who hunt over feeders... again UNethical. You might as well start feeding the neighbors cat till he gets comfortable with you then blast him with a shotgun at 5 yards. Dont even get me started on bow hunters! A bow hunter is restricted the vital zone on an animal and can only take a broadside or quartering shot. Sometimes they can pull off a facing shot and sometimes an arrow in the shoulder will put one down (Deer and antelope) probably not an elk. And arrows are so affected by wind at all ranges how can that be an ethical weapon of choice? At least with my rifle I can break the shoulders if that’s the only shot or if heaven forbid I wound an animal I can put one up the tail pipe and put them down as they are gimping away. How many follow up shots can be made on a wounded animal with a bow? Dont tell me its all about shot placement because that has already been shot down with the long range debate. (you cant rely on shot placement because there are too many variables) like wind! right bow hunters? My point is what defines "ethical hunting"? The person as an individual! I know people that shouldnt take 200 yard shots with a rifle from a dead rest. They go out the day before opening morning and shoot a little rock on a hill to check their zero and call it good. I personally feel comfortable taking an animal at 1000 yards I shoot my rifles all the time and I know what my limitations are. I only take the shot IF the conditions are right. just because I know I can do it doesnt mean I am going to take the shot every time. the conditions need to be pretty good for me to attempt this shot. but there are tricks to the trade, although not fool proof, they are very effective. First thing I do is find an animal and I want it to be standing still or laying down. then I evaluate the conditions at my location using a wind meter that also measures temperature, elevation, humidity, pressure etc,, then i use my optics to evaluate vegetation and mirage if present. then if possible (which it usually is), I check vegetation, mirage etc. between me and my target. then i input all this information into a ballistics program which calculates drop, wind drif, spin drift coriolis effect. and I dial that into my scope adjustments. and I practice this on a weekly basis. And I have done it enough to know my limitations. To top it off I use a 300 grain sierra match king with a ballistic coefficient of .765 to help make up for my short comings in evaluating the conditions. How many of you put all that effort into your shots? No body wants to wound an animal, but it happens weather you are a bow hunter, handgun hunter, or rifle hunter, long, short or medium range. its all in your ability. and the only way to measure your ability is to practice not just at the range but in hunting type scenarios. So to all of you “ethical” hunters out there, Get Over Yourself! It is a ridiculous argument. Nobody follows all the rules all the time because as we can all agree some of them are absolutely ridiculous. So Apparently none of us are ethical.

Mike

plentycoupe
05-30-2011, 08:08 AM
Wow, I guess that last comment put an end to all the debate. Figured I would join in though. Sitting in sunny Afghanistan while my friend hunts my bait station this spring in AK. No hunting animals for me so may as well read posts on here. I posted asking about some Mule deer stuff in Wyoming but no reply yet......soooo

I hate to see these debates with hunters fighting hunters on who has the MOST and BEST ethics. The debates that pretty much say if you don't do it my way, you shouldn't do it.

I am not a long range hunter, but I did kill a caribou with one shot at 368 yards a few years ago. Was pretty awesome and I considered myself just as much of a hunter as when I shot the blackbear from a treestand with a longbow at 10yds and when I snuck up on the sleeping grizzly bear at 35 yards and watched my buddy miss the shot with his compound.

I am also not sure on how much of the long range shooting is actually "hunting". But who is to say it is not. The long range shooters spend just as much money on their tags, rifles, bullets and all the other items that put the money back into the wildlife as the shortrange shooters do.

Where are the "wounded game" statistics to support the claims that all the "variables" cannot be overcome? I mean I have seen some short range shooters do some pretty stupid things. And don't even bring into account the bowhunting debate over long versus short range.

As for the animal. Killing it at 100 and killing it at 1000 are the same thing. It is dead and the hunter has won the battle of man versus animal.

I absolutely love to hunt. I am looking forward to bears upon my return to AK next spring, Dall sheep next fall and fingers crossed mule deer in October. There will be plenty others in between.

If the goal for this thread is to say that long range hunting is wrong.....well.....as I said before they are still a valuable asset is supporting our rights to hunt and fish with the money provided.

What if PETA came on here and told all the short range.."ethical"... hunters that all hunting was wrong and unethical and no animal should ever be harmed. Would that mean that you are going to give it up.....Hopefully not, so why tell your fellow hunter, the one that does all the right things to make a vital shot(not the aim high and letter fly guy) that what he is doing is wrong and he should stop.

Work together to keep hunting a right this great country.

My $.02

Elkoholic307
05-30-2011, 11:00 AM
Yeah, it looks like Tikkamike ended this. Nobody has a reply lol

Drhorsepower
05-30-2011, 08:16 PM
As I read thru this thread, “too many variables” seems to be the popular phrase. I’m curious to know what everyone means by that. I would say one variable is human error or inability. The people that shoot once a year right before hunting season could be a variable because they’re not proficient with their weapon. But my guess is, it’s mainly wind and time of flight. I am aware of both. Do you think I only shoot at far distances when the conditions are perfect? It doesn’t matter if it is still out or blowing 15 mph, I am still out shooting and will compensate for whatever necessary because I have the data and equipment to do so. At long range, a hunter has a lot of time for proper preparation and time to find a solid rest. The hunter also has time to study the animal, hence the patience to take the shot at the right time.

You can get close to almost anything, but what about when you can't? It's not like long range rifles can only shoot long range. I still try to get in close for the shot, but reality is sometimes you can't. And, when I can't, I know I can still make the shot farther away. Trust me, confidence in yourself and your weapon is a great feeling. Years ago, I watched my brother pass up a 600 yard shot on a B&C bull elk. At that point in time, I wasn’t prepared for that range either. But, now I am; and I believe it’s going to give me a big advantage.

Long range obviously isn’t for everyone. We reload to squeeze every ounce of accuracy out of our rifles. We use high quality equipment from rangefinders, to wind meters, to levels, and drop charts for proper bullet placement, etc.

If you can’t shoot long range or have no interest in it, that’s fine. Just don’t stand in the way of those that can.

+1

Summed up in a nutshell. If 1k yards is the only opportunity I have at the buck of a lifetime, I want to be prepared for it.

Btw I just switched to a vld bullet from a nosler. I am in heaven.

338ultra
05-30-2011, 08:48 PM
I can't make a 1,000 yard shot. I wouldn't try it at 500 yards even though I practice that far. While I do believe there are plenty of people that can make a 1,000 yard shot and beyond ethically, I agree with some of the posters on this forum, that they shouldn't be glorified on these TV shows. I'm not going to tell someone they are not being ethical because they are making a 1,000 yard shot, that's not my call, it's up to the individual hunter. If we start drawing these lines for everyone, then someone can come along and say we are not being ethical, because we aren't sneaking up on these animals and being able to slit their throats with a razor blade. There's too many devisive lines that are being drawn among hunters, when we are being attacked by anti-hunting groups to stop us from hunting all together. We all share one thing in common, the love of being outdoors and chasing these animals we have such a passion for. Don't glorify the long distance shows by watching them and eventually they will go away. They are driven by the all might dollar to sell their products. By showing those kills, their viewers believe they can make those shots if they just have that type of setup. It was kinda like me as a little white kid at 12 years old on a basketball court. I know I can dunk, I just need Nike Air Jordans to be able to do it!!!

T43
05-31-2011, 09:39 AM
How far away would you have to be to get a 1 shot kill on this thread. Dead horse BANG! dead horse BANG! etc. etc.

highcountry
06-01-2011, 01:25 AM
Wow, I guess that last comment put an end to all the debate. Figured I would join in though. Sitting in sunny Afghanistan while my friend hunts my bait station this spring in AK. No hunting animals for me so may as well read posts on here. I posted asking about some Mule deer stuff in Wyoming but no reply yet......soooo

I hate to see these debates with hunters fighting hunters on who has the MOST and BEST ethics. The debates that pretty much say if you don't do it my way, you shouldn't do it.

I am not a long range hunter, but I did kill a caribou with one shot at 368 yards a few years ago. Was pretty awesome and I considered myself just as much of a hunter as when I shot the blackbear from a treestand with a longbow at 10yds and when I snuck up on the sleeping grizzly bear at 35 yards and watched my buddy miss the shot with his compound.

I am also not sure on how much of the long range shooting is actually "hunting". But who is to say it is not. The long range shooters spend just as much money on their tags, rifles, bullets and all the other items that put the money back into the wildlife as the shortrange shooters do.

Where are the "wounded game" statistics to support the claims that all the "variables" cannot be overcome? I mean I have seen some short range shooters do some pretty stupid things. And don't even bring into account the bowhunting debate over long versus short range.

As for the animal. Killing it at 100 and killing it at 1000 are the same thing. It is dead and the hunter has won the battle of man versus animal.

I absolutely love to hunt. I am looking forward to bears upon my return to AK next spring, Dall sheep next fall and fingers crossed mule deer in October. There will be plenty others in between.

If the goal for this thread is to say that long range hunting is wrong.....well.....as I said before they are still a valuable asset is supporting our rights to hunt and fish with the money provided.

What if PETA came on here and told all the short range.."ethical"... hunters that all hunting was wrong and unethical and no animal should ever be harmed. Would that mean that you are going to give it up.....Hopefully not, so why tell your fellow hunter, the one that does all the right things to make a vital shot(not the aim high and letter fly guy) that what he is doing is wrong and he should stop.

Work together to keep hunting a right this great country.

My $.02

Plentycoupe- I couldn’t agree more with your post.

I think whether you’re a short-ranger or a long-ranger you’re out there because you love being in the outdoors, love the physical and mental challenge and love being around people who have that in common. Spending the time to be prepared and using good judgment and restraint is what ethics is about, not some arbitrary number of yards.

By the way, one thing I think we can all agree on is that it’s because of the sacrifices your making that we have the right to hunt and own firearms, among other things, so thank you for your service!

powellpounder
06-02-2011, 12:14 AM
I thinks its everyhunters choice and they should have limits set on their own capabilities. Me I wish people would start talking on how close the shot was instead of the distance.

plentycoupe
06-02-2011, 04:28 AM
Plentycoupe- I couldn’t agree more with your post.

I think whether you’re a short-ranger or a long-ranger you’re out there because you love being in the outdoors, love the physical and mental challenge and love being around people who have that in common. Spending the time to be prepared and using good judgment and restraint is what ethics is about, not some arbitrary number of yards.

By the way, one thing I think we can all agree on is that it’s because of the sacrifices your making that we have the right to hunt and own firearms, among other things, so thank you for your service!

No problem brother! I love the job, just don't love the time away as much! Soon I will be back to sunny Alaska and then, with fingers crossed, I will find a place to hunt Muleys in Wyoming next year.

highcountry
06-02-2011, 10:43 AM
Plentycoupe- I have a cousin who lives in WY and is helping me locate some deer hunting (also getting points and trying to dial in some muley hunting in colorado). Let me know if you need info or a few hunting partners!

plentycoupe
06-03-2011, 05:05 AM
HEy brother I sure do appreciate the offer. I will be in contact via pm. I am looking to put a hunt together in Wyoming, hopefully next year. I have will have three points in July so that should give me a few options.
I am always looking for information and new hunting friends. Maybe we will put something together for mule deer and then Alaska after that!
Thanks again
Jason

Colorado Cowboy
06-09-2011, 05:24 PM
Wow what an interesting thread, lots of different viewpoints to be considered. First let me say something about these TV shows...they never tell you how many animals they miss or cripple to get that perfect footage. I can only speak for myself when it comes to how and when I shoot. I have a custom rifle that is fully capable of the accuracy necessary to shoot less than minute of angle groups at 1000 yards. I have done all the homework, developed my handloads and done lots of practice, but does that mean I am going to shoot anything at 1000 yards? Probably not. I have killed a few antelope and deer at the 500 yard mark when I determined I could not get any closer and was confident that I could make the shot. I really don't want to have to chase an animal down that I have made a bad shot on, done that too many times with several of my former hunting pals. Not fun and a potential waste of some good eating.

All that said, do I think that it is ethical? Thats for each individual to decide for themselves, I know what I will do.

NM_Archer
06-10-2011, 09:56 AM
FAIR CHASE HUNTING!!!!!! Shooting an animal at 1000 yds doesnt seem very fair or respectful to the animal. Just my 2 cents. Nothing better than the thrill of getting close with a bow!!

NCbowhunter
06-22-2011, 04:08 PM
If it is a quick humane kill and feeds you or your family, then I don't have a problem with it. I have more problems with people who try to take our hunting right away from us. I will spend my time and energy fighting them rather than telling a fellow hunter how he/she should hunt. I don't enjoy shooting (guns) as much as some people, but I practice so as to make good shots and quick kills, and I know my limits. Some people love to shoot long range and translate that into hunting, to each his own. I like to hold a bow and blend in with nature hoping to get an opportunity to take an animal, then honor that animal by using its meat to nourish my family. If it has a great rack, cool, if not, then I will probably not have to tenderize the meat as much, just as cool.

packmule
06-22-2011, 07:36 PM
If folks can make the shot more power to them. If they wound them and know it, then it's something the hunter has to live with and it can eat at them just as equally as the excitement of of walking up and shooting one point blank. I'm prepped to shoot 800yds if need be (I'd like to be <600yd), but I acknowledge that sometimes trying to get closer can go from being a good idea to being upset that you had an opportunity at a deer you'll probably never see again.

paarcher
07-09-2011, 03:52 PM
Hunting is called hunting for a reason. Why cut the hunt short? If it were easy we'd just call it shooting!

Elkcrazedfrk
07-09-2011, 06:25 PM
Wow!!Ill say it again. I never thought starting this thread would create this much diverse dialog. All in all, after reading all the posts, the one statement that sticks out the most is those who preach WE SHOULD NOT FIGHT WITH EACH OTHER. LETS FOCUS OUR ENERGY ON THOSE WHO TRY AND TAKE AWAY A PASSION AND OR OBSESSION THAT WE ALL SHARE. Not yelling with the capslock; just saying that if I take anything away from this that will be it. Good luck this fall and remember whatever distance you are shooting "aim small miss small'

jenbickel
07-10-2011, 04:38 PM
I think it is definitely a "to each their own" sort of topic..
PERSONALLY I love love love stalking in super close! But I am a bow hunter... The only thing I hunt with a rifle is my antelope and that's only if I am unsuccessful with my bow. I have my gun set up to where I am comfortable shooting 500 yards but I have never actually shot anything over 300 yards. The majority of my shots are 150 yards or less.. Except for when I am prarie dog hunting :)
I could never feel comfortable or happy at making a long distance shot. If I wanted to do that, I would sit on my back porch and shoot deer. But where is the fun in that? I love getting all dressed up in my camo and trying to be sneaky and scent free.
But that's just my preferences :)

Mwalczak
07-23-2011, 12:14 PM
What's so awesome about it? What does it prove? Does it prove your not capable of getting any closer? I don't care how much skill someone has or how much they practice, or how patient they are. None of those are even relevant. It's all about what is ethical and what is not. Unfortunatley, ethics vary from person to person.


I think "skill, practice and patience" are not only relevant, but the entire foundation of any responsible shooter.

Elkcrazedfrk
07-23-2011, 08:32 PM
I think "skill, practice and patience" are not only relevant, but the entire foundation of any responsible shooter.\

Very true..Doesn't matter whether your shooting 10 yrds or 500.

NVhunter
07-27-2011, 07:52 PM
I am also neutral on the long range shooting. In December 2010 I had wounded a non-typical buck in the rear leg on a shot at about 260 yards, we lost him over night. The next day followed the blood trail up the mountain and we spotted him at about 700 yards bedded under a rock pile. As we started moving towards him he got up and started moving away, there was no way we were going to be able to get closer so we set up on the tripod and my dad told me to hold my .270 with a stock scope about 6 feet above his head. So at 650 yards I was able to drop this buck with a complete hail mary of a shot. Now this buck is on my wall, but I do not brag about that shot, a lot of the time I dont even mention it. But I think when a long range shot is your only option sometimes it can pay off and some times it can really screw you.

Elkoholic307
08-04-2011, 04:18 PM
I could never feel comfortable or happy at making a long distance shot. If I wanted to do that, I would sit on my back porch and shoot deer. But where is the fun in that? I love getting all dressed up in my camo and trying to be sneaky and scent free. But that's just my preferences :)

Lol, that's exactly what I do, with does anyway. I would feel absolutely silly dressing in camo and spraying myself with scent killer and then 'stalk' through the alfalfa up to one.

Sending a 250 gr. AccuBond from far away is a much more thrilling way to punch a fun ticket, as Primos say.

Drhorsepower
08-04-2011, 04:29 PM
Same kind of debate but I can compare the two, I hear people say running dogs to catch bear and lion is cheating and no fun. That is a crock of crap is alot of work to run dogs. Ask any SUCCESSFUL houndsmen how many hours a week they put in with their dogs and I guarantee you it is more than think. We spent about 40 when running ours. It is alot of work. It is also alot of work to shoot that ranges. You can't go buy a rifle and head down to Sportsmans and buy the best ammo you can buy. You spend alot of time on the range and reloading room. It is all for the same result just a different way of getting there. Any type of hunting you do you are going to spend alot of time and energy doing it, same goes for shooting long range or getting in close.

catman
11-06-2011, 11:31 PM
Ethics and competance are the issues with any shot. I watched a local hunter last week park in the middle of the paved highway, jump out, shoot from the road illegally at a deer 75 yards away then leave without checking for blood! clearly he was not ethical at any distance! I had a very unsuccessful back surgery 5 years ago. While trying to heal I built a long range deer and varmit rifle and both practiced and digested everything i could on rifles and shooting. I am now much worse physically than the day I had surgery or the 2 follow ups. I must now hunt only from the road since a trip thru walmart puts me in bed. I hunt with someone always but longer shots are often my only chance. Yet I know my ability AND stay well within that ability while my horses get fat. Many say long range hunting has no challenge and is not hunting. I hope and pray you are never in my situation because being out now is the challenge! be safe everyone! catman

anglinarcher
11-07-2011, 01:43 PM
1000 yrds. Really?.. That's it?... That is as close as you could get, and that was the best chance at getting that animal?...OK:confused:

Drhorsepower
11-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Here we go again....

sjsmallfield
11-07-2011, 04:44 PM
Here we go again....

No kidding. Let it go already!

Elkoholic307
11-07-2011, 10:18 PM
This thread should just be killed.

Quiethunter
11-10-2011, 11:28 AM
Okay, so I read the first two pages of this thread and this one, so I apologize if this has been covered or beat to death.

We, as hunters should NOT impress our views, limitations on others. We must each have our own set of ethics and limitations we live and hunt by, and we cannot make them inflexible nor can we impress our limits and ethics on others as long as they are using good judgement and working within the laws.

I personally have dabbled in long range, and while I learned a lot from it, I ultimately moved on to archery for a different kind of challenge. I do see that those who do it, are doing so for the "trophy shot". Is this any less admirable than working toward a "trophy animal" by whatever your definition is of each? Each is a form of hunting. Those who do the long range hunting typically spend as much time planning and practicing to make these shots as I do to make a 60 yard shot on elk with my bow.

I don't do the long range thing, but do not fault anyone who does.
I do spend most of my time practicing and in the woods with a bow in my hand and my rifle shooting skills have seriously been neglected. I now limit myselft to point blank range with a rifle (I define point blank as that distance where I am still holding on fur using the center cross hairs based on ballistics and critter size).
As an archer, I am also targeted by those who feel I am not "killing ethically" (can one truly call killing ethical?). The elk I have killed with my bow died anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes from being shot with an arrow. I have had a mule deer that required a follow-up shot and therefore lived for an hour after the initial shot - which was a good one.
My one shot using long range equipment at 506 yards was essentially an instant kill on an antelope.
I am not a slob hunter lobbing arrows indiscrimanately, and these guys are not slob hunters lobbing bullets with no consideration.

Please, lets stop bashing others who fundamentally are as ethical as any other good hunter.

clbrown23
02-13-2012, 08:39 PM
I saw this thread and I couldn't help but to read a few and chime in. With it at eleven pages I have not read all of the prior posts so I apologize in advance if I repeat anything that has already been stated. Here's my thing, I think when people dislike long range "shooting" for the reason of; too many variables, you could wound the animal.... its crazy. Any kind of hunting can result with a wounded animal and that is just the name of the game. I believe that experience and knowing your personal limitations, and making ethical shots are the bottom line to making ethical kills. I think someone who practices shooting at long ranges over and over has a lot less chance of wounding an animal than a newbee hunter who picks up a gun without practice and takes a shot at an animal 100 yards away. That's just the way it is. Bowhunting has a lot of variables and can end up wounding an animal very easy. We as hunters need to make sure that we are taking shots we are comfortable and experienced at taking to prevent wounding animals. And every now and again something happens and they get wounded anyway. Thats hunting.

I also think that long range "shooting" takes a lot of hunting away from the sport. Use to be, and still is for some of us, finding the animal 1000 yards away is when the hunting starts. That's when we start thinking about the wind and what the best way is to close the distance on the animal. When you are long range "shooting" you don't have to play the wind or pursue the animal for a better shot, its seems to be; see the animal take the shot. When are they going to actually hunt the animal? I have never done any hunting of this sort because I actually enjoy the "hunt" playing the wind, sneaking in close to the animal, calling the animal in, fooling them into thinking I'm a cow in heat. It seems to me the long range "shooters" enjoy the marksmanship of hunting more than they do the actual hunt. It's more of a thrill for them to shoot and hit a target at 700 hards than it is to sneak up on an animal, fool them, or anticipate where they are feeding to, head them off and wait for them to walk into range. Lastly, with the technology and optics in our day n age it seems the skills for long range hunting are not extremely difficult to learn. I have heard of people with next to no shooting experience pick up a long range rifle practice with it a little and be shooting 600 yards consistently. I think that anyone that is an experienced shooter can learn to shoot long range with the optics and rifles that are being used, (I have never done or tried this first hand though so I can't talk from experience). Which leaves the only real challenge of filling a tag, locating the animals.

Now here is my last point, I'm not against long range shooting, hunting or anything else. I think it is very impressive that people can shoot that far and consistently. I am not against going along with people who go long range hunting. Like I said before, depending on which you do it is completely a difference in interests. I truly believe long range shooters enjoy that marksmanship more and the traditional hunter enjoys the hunt, challenge and thrill of out smarting and pursing a wild animal. I do believe that there should be a different record book for long range hunting. Bow hunting is more of a challenge and therefore got its own record book with lower standards because of the difficulty of the sport. I believe that because long range hunting is less of a challenge there should also be a record book for it alone, where the standards are much higher than normal B&C scores.

I just realized this post has taken way too much time from my evening. All in all, to each his own. It really comes down to what your passion and interests are. But I do believe a separate record book for long range hunting should be constructed.

Elkoholic307
03-20-2012, 12:21 PM
I have heard of people with next to no shooting experience pick up a long range rifle practice with it a little and be shooting 600 yards consistently.

Like my wife? :D

Muleys 24/7
03-27-2012, 09:54 PM
I think if one has the skills and proper set up to do so, more power to you. Long range shooting has alot of different challanges and if one can pull it off that's great. For me the hunt starts when I get out of the truck,gear up, and head into the back country to pursue game, no matter what the distance of the shot.

Manualman
03-28-2012, 02:17 PM
Why do most bow hunters use a compound bow. So they can shoot farther? To each his own

Ikeepitcold
03-28-2012, 02:43 PM
Okay, so I read the first two pages of this thread and this one, so I apologize if this has been covered or beat to death.

We, as hunters should NOT impress our views, limitations on others. We must each have our own set of ethics and limitations we live and hunt by, and we cannot make them inflexible nor can we impress our limits and ethics on others as long as they are using good judgement and working within the laws.





I personally have dabbled in long range, and while I learned a lot from it, I ultimately moved on to archery for a different kind of challenge. I do see that those who do it, are doing so for the "trophy shot". Is this any less admirable than working toward a "trophy animal" by whatever your definition is of each? Each is a form of hunting. Those who do the long range hunting typically spend as much time planning and practicing to make these shots as I do to make a 60 yard shot on elk with my bow.


I don't do the long range thing, but do not fault anyone who does.
I do spend most of my time practicing and in the woods with a bow in my hand and my rifle shooting skills have seriously been neglected. I now limit myselft to point blank range with a rifle (I define point blank as that distance where I am still holding on fur using the center cross hairs based on ballistics and critter size).

As an archer, I am also targeted by those who feel I am not "killing ethically" (can one truly call killing ethical?). The elk I have killed with my bow died anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes from being shot with an arrow. I have had a mule deer that required a follow-up shot and therefore lived for an hour after the initial shot - which was a good one.
My one shot using long range equipment at 506 yards was essentially an instant kill on an antelope.
I am not a slob hunter lobbing arrows indiscrimanately, and these guys are not slob hunters lobbing bullets with no consideration.

Please, lets stop bashing others who fundamentally are as ethical as any other good hunter.


I have to agree. This is obviously a very touchy subject and I think a healthy one. It shows just how individual we all are as hunters.

Timberstalker
03-28-2012, 04:59 PM
I don't have a problem with people doing it in a controlled environment, for example private property. But when I have snuck into 400 yards of a herd of elk just to have someone 350 yards behind me waiting for me to shoot so they can start blazing away at running elk 750 yrds away and over my head. I have a problem with it.

Colorado Cowboy
03-28-2012, 06:43 PM
I don't have a problem with people doing it in a controlled environment, for example private property. But when I have snuck into 400 yards of a herd of elk just to have someone 350 yards behind me waiting for me to shoot so they can start blazing away at running elk 750 yrds away and over my head. I have a problem with it.

That made me think about the time several years ago here in Colorado when my Dad and I had about 150 head feeding towards us out of an Aspen grove. We were sitting in a little draw about 400 yards from the closest ones. My Dad had a cow tag and wanted to let them feed closer...like 200 to 250. All of a sudden bullets started whizzing over our heads from behind us. 4 guys were shooting at them from at least 800 yards away!. All the elk took off and Dad didn't shoot. These idiots had 2 cripples down, both cows. They shot about 15 times. About 20 minutes later one of them comes over and ask us if we had any cow tags, they only had one! We just shook our heads, said no and started hiking back to the truck. At the truck we met a warden and told him what happened and he took off looking for them. Don't know how it came out, but I guess you can guess how we felt.

So much for my experience with long range shooting. I like it less than 400 yards.

packer58
03-28-2012, 08:02 PM
In my opinion, having the ability to shoot accuratly at extended ranges is just another hunting tool. You should always try to get as close to your animal as possible, but if there is no way to close the distance and you feel comfortable with the shot you should take it. Just this last season I killed my Nv. bull at 635 yds +/-, No way to get any closer. I had plenty of time and a good solid rest across my day pack. If there was any way possible for me to close the gap I would have.

I think what turns most people off about long range shots is the crap on TV, It's not so much about the hunting experience...........Just bragging about how far the shot was.....

Bitterroot Bulls
03-28-2012, 08:28 PM
Did this thread get resurrected again?

Sheesh.

Ikeepitcold
03-28-2012, 08:31 PM
Did this thread get resurrected again?

Sheesh.

BB I thought the same thing and had my finger on the cancel button after I made another comment.

Muleys 24/7
03-28-2012, 09:13 PM
Did this thread get resurrected again?

Sheesh.ha, my bad, I think I was the one that kicked it up again......I havn't seen this thread till last night( I don't know how....there's 11 pages) after reading back a few pages I realize why it needs to die....

Edelweiss
03-29-2012, 08:06 PM
I shoot F-Class competition at 1000-1400 yards every weekend. I know how to read the wind, and shoot more a month than most people who shoot a lot do all year.

Usually I go through a barrel or 2 a year on the F-Class rifle.

I am also a military firearms instructor, and while I feel that everyone can always learn a lot more about shooting, I am pretty confident because of the distances I shoot every week out well past 1000 on big game and varmints. And I have taken quite a few animals at long distance.

Long range shooting shooting with a rifle is rocket science literally. That being said it's not something that only a select few can learn to do. All it takes is the right equipment and a lot of ammunition to get figured out.

Shawn Carlock of Defensive Edge Gunsmithing in Idaho is kind a fairly famous long range shooter, he's also a several time state champion sniper competition guy and shoots F-Class. Has killed some animals with a 17 pound 338 Edge at distances to include 2000 yards. He does it the right way, he uses a ballistic solver and weather machine to get his shooting solution using a mil-dot type reticle.

Todd Hodnett of Accuracy 1st also uses a ballistic solver (that he invented). Todd is the several time National Champion Sniper Competition winner and a defense contractor (because the military likes his sniper math so well). Shoots 338 Lapuas and even AR-308 type rifles in excess of 1000 yards at game, successfully.

A 70 (or realistically 60) yard bow shot is a completely different animal than shooting at 1000 yards. As the bullet is going faster at 3000 yards than the arrow is at 5.

The biggest difference between Hodnett and Carlock when compared to the Best of the West, Long Range Precision and any other of these similar "dial and kill" idiots is that humidity, barometric pressure, tempature, altitude and more than anything wind play a huge issue with every shot. The concept of using dials or reticles in relation to a distance is absurd. As the consistancy over several hours of 1000 feet of altitude can change a shot at 1000 yards enough to miss by 30 inches.

Hodnett and Carlock calculate each shot sequence before they take it. They build a new algorithm every time.

Turrets and Balistic reticles only get you close. While Mil type reticles are harder for most to get the hang of, they are of a consistant value. Horus reticles are even better, as a you can adjust your reticle hold based on reading bullet strike and trace.

Something else that isn't really talked about much on those shows is the need to reload. A 30 FPS difference in speed at 1000 yards is enough for a 30 inch deviation in flight path and bullet strike. I personally think if you have a MIL reticle you should have a mil turret. Why confuse things?

Yes 1000 yards is a long ways, if you shoot it a lot it's a lot closer than you think and if you have the right equipment and knowledge it's not that far at all.

The biggest thing is you have to question everything. Consistency is everything.

1. Eye relief perfect/ perfect paralax!
2. Rifle is held/supported the same way every time.
3. The ammunition must be perfect, bullet concentric to bore, powder charge perfect, neck tension perfect, BC computed to be perfect at your velocity.
4. Scope must do exactly the same thing every time, 1 click moves it exactly the same as the next. Most often this is not the case.
5. Rifle needs to be of sufficient weight for you to be able to read your shots, or you need a spotter with good optics. The preferred system would be for the rifle and spotters spotting scope to have the same reticle so they can make accurate calls. Ideally a Horus so they can tell you where on the grid the bullet hit.

BKC
03-29-2012, 08:42 PM
At best, on a good day and with the right conditions, I have shooting skills for a 500 yard shot. My weapons may be better than that but I would rather trust the other 500 yards to my hunting skills. It has worked for me so far!

Old Hunter
03-29-2012, 09:25 PM
I'd rather get close, and hold dead on. Works everytime.

Elkoholic307
03-29-2012, 10:01 PM
Holding dead on from far away works pretty good too.

Old Hunter
03-29-2012, 10:11 PM
Hardly the same thing. I can do it with open sights.

Bitterroot Bulls
03-29-2012, 10:48 PM
Muleys 24/7 I am shaking my finger at you...

Muleys 24/7
03-29-2012, 11:14 PM
Muleys 24/7 I am shaking my finger at you... Haha,I don't think there has been enough input yet.............:p kidding

Edelweiss
03-30-2012, 07:11 AM
Sorry new here, and kind of bone headed on forums.

I like it here a lot though. No sales pitches, no stalkers, no attitudes, nice outfit.

T43
03-30-2012, 10:21 AM
Holding dead on from far away works pretty good too.

Read this again. He obviously knows what he is talking about.

"The biggest difference between Hodnett and Carlock when compared to the Best of the West, Long Range Precision and any other of these similar "dial and kill" idiots is that humidity, barometric pressure, tempature, altitude and more than anything wind play a huge issue with every shot. The concept of using dials or reticles in relation to a distance is absurd. As the consistancy over several hours of 1000 feet of altitude can change a shot at 1000 yards enough to miss by 30 inches."

Now do you use mathematical calculations for every shot or do you fall into the "dial and kill idiots" category. I believe I know the answer based on your previous posts.

Old Hunter
03-30-2012, 10:28 AM
How do you know what the wind is doing 1000yds away? How do you know what it's doing along the way to 1000yds?

Elkoholic307
03-30-2012, 11:00 AM
Watch the foliage and read the mirage.

Old Hunter
03-30-2012, 11:17 AM
Sounds like a bit of guessing? Fine for target shooting. All you get is a bad score if you guess wrong.

BKC
03-30-2012, 01:27 PM
Read this again. He obviously knows what he is talking about.

"The biggest difference between Hodnett and Carlock when compared to the Best of the West, Long Range Precision and any other of these similar "dial and kill" idiots is that humidity, barometric pressure, tempature, altitude and more than anything wind play a huge issue with every shot. The concept of using dials or reticles in relation to a distance is absurd. As the consistancy over several hours of 1000 feet of altitude can change a shot at 1000 yards enough to miss by 30 inches."

Now do you use mathematical calculations for every shot or do you fall into the "dial and kill idiots" category. I believe I know the answer based on your previous posts.

When I was in college, I had to get thru 2 semesters of calculus. Now I just want to hunt and not have to do "mathmatical calculations".

Strap Assassin
03-30-2012, 03:34 PM
Bottom line: Shooting 1k is awesome.

Shooting 1k is awesome, if you're in the military. Show some respect for our wildlife or take your beliefs to the mountains of Afghanistan.

Elkoholic307
03-30-2012, 04:24 PM
I appreciate the advice, everyone, but you're all wasting your time.

By the way, I really like the "Dial & Kill" slogan. It would look good on a Team 3 Ball t-shirt. I'll leave out the idiot part though.

Bitterroot Bulls
03-30-2012, 04:40 PM
Guys, I think we can safely say that not everybody is going to see this issue in the same way. How about we just let it go, and find some common ground. Then we will see how long this thread can do dormant before being dragged up again.

Old Hunter
03-30-2012, 04:49 PM
A little controversy perks me up. :)

Jerry
03-30-2012, 05:03 PM
I cannot believe that this is still being beat to death!
How many times can the same things be said!
C'mon give it a rest!

Elkoholic307
03-30-2012, 06:02 PM
How many times can the same things be said!

That's what happens when people comment on threads without reading them first.

ChadH
03-30-2012, 06:39 PM
That's what happens when people comment on threads without reading them first.

Or looking at the date for the original post/thread. :)

Old Hunter
03-30-2012, 07:04 PM
No matter. Keep bringing it up, and i'll keep beating the horse.

Edelweiss
03-31-2012, 06:55 AM
Obviously you think it an unethical shot, and a long ways away. It probably is for you.

Old Hunter, one word answer to the How do I know what the wind is doing at 100 yards? : MIRAGE!

I shoot at 1000-1400 yards every week for competition.

Elkoholic307
03-31-2012, 08:47 AM
No matter. Keep bringing it up, and i'll keep beating the horse.

One question. Why???

Montana
03-31-2012, 09:30 AM
Why not... Here we go :) The reason this is so controversial is because it is unethical. It doesn't matter how good of a shot you are or how often you practice, it is a matter of what happens when that animal takes a half step at a 1000 yards and your point of aim went from behind the front shoulder to in the a$$. And if you say you can only do it if the conditions are perfect, you're not being honest with us and more importantly yourself. Because the only way the condition exist, of the animal not being capable of moving, is if it is bedded, and bedded animals vitals aren't exposed at that distance. If you shoot at that distance it is only time before an animal is wounded and not recovered. We, at one time or another will experience losing an animal but shooting at long distances will greatly increase your odds. And I should clarify, all of this is in reference to a numbers game. You might get away with it a few times but I am referring to people who consistently harvest high numbers of animals on an annual basis.

There we go :) That's my 2 cents :)

hvfd21walker
03-31-2012, 09:36 AM
I think we all are missing the point here. We will all never see eye to eye on how we hunt, what we hunt or what we use to harvest the animals we hunt. Our passion is always under attack by people that do not understand why we do what we do. We all have to agree to disagree and stick together to keep this passion alive. Thats just my 2cents.

Old Hunter
03-31-2012, 10:09 AM
Obviously you think it an unethical shot, and a long ways away. It probably is for you.

Old Hunter, one word answer to the How do I know what the wind is doing at 100 yards? : MIRAGE!

I shoot at 1000-1400 yards every week for competition.

Let me ask you. What's the difference between your 1000yd target shot, and the 1000yd shot at an animal? What part of the shot at the animal is hunting? Which one is harder? Which one are you more accurate at? Ever wound an animal? Ever miss?

Can the animal see, smell, or hear you at 1000yds? Other than the shot. What skills do you need to hunt at 1000yds?

ChadH
04-01-2012, 12:21 AM
Let me ask you. What's the difference between your 1000yd target shot, and the 1000yd shot at an animal? What part of the shot at the animal is hunting? Which one is harder? Which one are you more accurate at? Ever wound an animal? Ever miss?

Can the animal see, smell, or hear you at 1000yds? Other than the shot. What skills do you need to hunt at 1000yds?

This is not targeted just at OldHunter, his post was just the last in a string. I've stayed out of this for to long to handle it anymore. I am not a "long range" guy, but all these small minded caricatures are just to much, and it is far to pervasive in our society. The whole society needs to learn some manners, and tone it down about 10 notches.

Just because I don't like sitting behind a reloading bench turning brass to within a micron doesn't mean I don't respect someone that does (I do enjoy reloading though). Just because I don't shoot iron sights much anymore (I did for many, many years and I guess I shoot one white tail doe a year with a Savage 99 that was my grandpa's) doesn't mean I don't respect someone who does. Just because I don't (or can't) shoot reliably at 1000 yards doesn't mean I don't respect the time and dedication it takes someone like Edelweiss or Elkoholic to hone that craft. I don’t recommend every young guy with cable TV, run out and start throwing bullets downrange at long distance just because they think they can because some guy on TV did. But to be honest, every hunter has a maximum range well short of what his weapon is capable of reproducing consistently (I don’t care if you shoot a bow or scoped firearm, muzzle loader or 45-70 with iron sights, yes Quigley went “down under” and a whole lot of guys hit the hills trying to be him as well. Tom Horn you aren’t.) Don’t try and sell yourself as someone who has never “stretched the max” a bit, or wondered “If I can”. If you are human, you have. I have SEEN Eastman’s shows where Guy shot animals further than his post in this thread says he LIKES to shoot (Mike is a different story, we love you Mike). The bottom line to me is this, I describe "ethical" as the ability to truly self evaluate, look critically in a mirror and honestly assess who you are (in this discussion that means asking what you are capable of) and doing the right thing in light of that evaluation (everyone should practice this in all areas of their lives). Don't for one minute tell me that still hunting the woods, shooting with iron sights, means you are a more ethical shooter (or even necessarily a more ethical hunter). For instance, there is no way in H. E. double hockey sticks that you can shoot as well (actual repeatable accuracy) with iron sights at even 50 yards as you can with a more modern sighting platform (protest all you want, no you can't). You can, I am 100% positive, shoot very adequately for a hunting situation, but not technically as well. That “hunting situation” part means we ALL make judgement calls. So extending the logic to many of you are using, we should all rail on the choice to shoot iron sights, or bows or whatever isn't the most accurate method of shooting. After all, your logic states that the lower the chance of a bad shot, the more ethical you are, and so because repeatably accurate shots are less likely to be bad shots they are by definition more ethical. Should mandate you use the better sighting platform (not just the many arbitrary distances people use to define what is ‘ethical’) to ensure you are the most ethical hunter possible. Or maybe we should MANDATE that every hunter shoot X number of 1000's of rounds at a range every year, keeping a skill that has a "shelf life" at it's peak. And using this logic bows are out (and I just dumped a bunch in a new rig, DANG), they aren't as accurate and don't produce the kinetic energy to "ethically" dispatch an animal as quickly as whatever firearm you are using (heard that one for years about bow seasons and archery equipment). Oh, and all you front loaders out there, can't use them any more. And why is it that some states won't let you use a scope on a muzzle loader, it makes it more accurate, so it is more ethical right? Or is ethical more "Primative", you can't have it both ways. These are just stupid divisive arguments about what happens "if" (the animal moves, or stops moving or the wind picks up/dies down or whatever). The challenge is in testing yourself, how you test is up to you. You ALL have my respect .... as long as you give respect.

And by the way, to me the word 'Old' means 'Old enough' to know how to exercise self control in what you do, in what you say (or type), AND in knowing when to let it go. Disrespect is deserving of disrespect, and to the respectful person respect is due, so lets all practice respect. I wish the Mods would lock this thread out and put it to bed. This is to great of a site for this GAR BAGE (said with a french accent :)).

Chad

Musket Man
04-01-2012, 01:38 AM
I know this is very controversial and im not saying im for 1000 yard shots but it all comes down to what you are comfortable with and hod good you are. there are guys that can shoot better at 1000 yards then some ever will at 50 yards.

Old Hunter
04-01-2012, 10:25 AM
Chad,

If we were talking about 500yds. I might not say anything. Moving it to 1000yds puts it into sniper range. I have no doubt 1000yd shots can be taken by a few. It would take a lot of training to be proficient at it, and then i'd like to what the odds are in the field of a miss. At it's best it has to be a low percentage shot. I've seen misses more than once on TV shows. I just watched one last night. 756 yds and he shot 2 ft over the deer. Spotter says. "You shot high". He takes another shot, and drops the deer. Was that a good percentage shot?

The problem I have is Joe Average sees shows like that, or threads like this, and thinks he can do it too. He's take a few shots at the range, and then goes in the field, and wounds an animal. My concern is always for the animal. Have enough respect for it to give it a fast kill. There's so many things that can go wrong with 1000yd shots that it can't ever be a sure thing. Only those who are highly skilled should attempt it. I think that list of hunters is very small.


Now, since you had to bring up my style of hunting. Let me talk about it a bit. Just so you understand me a little.

My dad started me hunting when I was 8 years old. Small game with a .22 to start off, and then when i was 11 years old he bought me a 30-30 for deer. Which I continued to use for elk and deer until now. With some ML recently.
What he drove into me from the beginning is to respect the animals. To never ever take a chancy shot. He taught me to give the animal evry chance to escape. To always still hunt, and let the animal be able to use all it's senses to beat me. I've never wavered from what I was taught. I cannot count the animals i've passed up, because the shot was chancy. Without bragging, because I was also taught to not do that either, I can say i've never taken a shot that didn't kill the animal in 61 years of hunting. I could never say this if it wasn't the self control my dad taught me.
Is my way the only way to hunt. Of course not. That would be ridiculous for me to say that. Everybody should hunt the way they like. I just want to see everybody do it in a responsible way that gives respect to the animal. If that means taking a 1000yd shot, and you can do it everytime? Good deal.

hvfd21walker
04-01-2012, 11:02 AM
Well put ChadH.

brandenbowhunter
04-02-2012, 09:05 PM
To each his own...only problem is the guys that think they can, and really can't...I know plenty that can...and a few that can't that think they can...but guys on the internet telling them they can't...just makes them try more...the bad ones that is...they don't care.

Montana
04-02-2012, 10:30 PM
lol... This is great. I love it.

Jon Boy
04-02-2012, 11:53 PM
lol... This is great. I love it.

Very entertaining, no one is going to change anybodies opinion on this issue lol I for one love long range hunters, it keeps people from discovering the rush of bowhunting :D

AG166
05-30-2012, 11:31 PM
I agree. There's no way I'd take a 1,000 yard shot! BOTW does push the Huskemaw optics pretty hard with some impressive shots,
but I bet you money, they edit some of those videos with some shots that didn't go according to plan... ie... wounded animals. Let's put this into some monetary terms.
Spotting scope able to "accurately" judge a trophy that far away- $3,000
A scope that good to put the crosshairs on the point of impact- $2,000
A rifle that good to accurately shoot at 1,000 yards- $3,500
Practice time with superior ammunition @ $50 a box- $300 (we all know you can't just chamber 1 round and send it down range at
a 1,000 yards like it shows on TV)
With all that, your looking at close to $10,000 just in order to pull the trigger. Take into account all the logistical support, guide services, fuel, lodging, etc.... your looking between $15-20,000 for a hunt.
No thanks, I'd rather hike my a$$ off in the greatest country in the world, and harvest a good buck than spend that much to say I took one at a 1,000 yards. To put it square, I'd rather spend $20,000 of my own money if I was in the military to snipe off some a$$hole who was trying to kill one of our soldiers. Nuff said.:p



So..After watching an episode of Best of the West and listening to all those guys promote their "Super scopes" is about to put me into a fit of rage. Shoot'n critters 1000+ yrds away is not what hunting is about is my opinion. They preach of adjusting their scopes for windage that they detect...Well heres a novel thought....You really think the wind is blowing the same on the other side of the canyon over 1000 yards away?????? Isn't half the hunt making the stalk. What are your thoughts? Sorry, but I had to vent.

Muleys 24/7
05-30-2012, 11:35 PM
Great, here we go again.......

Old Hunter
05-31-2012, 07:31 AM
$10,000 is pretty high. I'm sure it can be done much cheaper.

I don't think i've spent $10,000 in 60 years of hunting. I'm so cheap. :)

BobT
05-31-2012, 09:52 AM
Guys, I think we can safely say that not everybody is going to see this issue in the same way. How about we just let it go, and find some common ground. Then we will see how long this thread can do dormant before being dragged up again.

Almost 2 months!

Colorado Cowboy
05-31-2012, 10:13 AM
When I was in the Army going thru basic training (many years ago!) they started us out with BB guns at 1000" (yes inches)....does that have any relevence? Ha ....laugh a lot at that! Probably about as much as me shooting at an animal at 1000 YARDS!!!

Sabot
06-02-2012, 07:35 PM
My .02 :

1) I bet we all agree that throwing shots out beyond 500 yards without proper practice and knowledge is fairly irresponsible.
2) Most of us do not have access to a place to learn the craft of long range shooting with enough ability to actually hunt with it.
3) Those that do have the equipment and skill to hunt at long range are not taking wildly risky/irresponsible shots. Challenging, but their level of ability is different from the average guy.

I echo the sentiments of those that feel like we shouldn't be telling each other how to hunt or what hunting is or isn't. That's the exact mindset of those who are against it all together and would argue that hunting itself is stupid and unnecessary. I am well aware that every year a few guys will buy some expensive gear and think they can try long range shots. VERY FEW will connect on those shots. Unless you have tried it, you have no idea how hard a 1000 yard shot is. Then there are the idiots who will sling a shot out at long range hoping to get lucky...they wont. If they do and wound an animal, that is a shame, but they are the extreme minority and not worth even discussing. There will always be idiots like that.

The whole premise here is that somehow long range hunting is not really hunting because the animal is so far away. With all due respect to the animals, hunting is about the hunter. If he has the time, money, and skill to put himself atop a ridge and artfully bag an animal on the next ridge over, he's a hunter in my book and an elite one at that. Anyone can bow hunt or pop a deer at 200 yards. Very few will ever possess the skill to make a shot beyond 500 yards and I think that at least a small portion of the angst against long range hunting is that it is by its very nature something that few have access to trying to learn.

Old Hunter
06-02-2012, 11:52 PM
Sabot.

I don't want to start this up again. I just want to ask you a simple question. What is the difference between someone taking a 1000yd shot on an animal, and someone taking a 1000yd shot on a target? How are they different? Couldn't the target shooter take the same shot on an animal? Would he then be a hunter?

Sabot
06-03-2012, 05:46 PM
Fair question. From a certain point of view there is no more difference than a 25 yard bow target in your back yard and a 25 yard shot on a trophy game animal with a bow. Now lets look at the significant differences:

1) Known distance. Target shooting at 1000 yards is generally done on a pre-set range due to safety space limitations. Long range hunters have no such advantages. Even with the best range finders and repeat hunts in the same area, game animals are unpredictable. Is that elk at 917 yards or 971 yards? Get the math wrong and its a clean miss 100% of the time. Unlike misjudging 217 versus 271 where the shot will likely still hit the animal, but in a way that may leave it wounded.
2) Adrenalin -per the above comparison, there is a big difference in the amount of concentration and self control involved in shooting a bow in your back yard versus at a game animal. Target shooters aren't typically faced with oxygen deprivation, heavy clothes, packs and pounding hearts from hiking up a ridge either.
3) Repeat shots - On a long range target, I can blast all day until I get the wind and dope right. Game animals don't stand still for very long in general and even less so with dirt licking up around them. Even when I do figure out the dope, if I try to use it in a hunting situation without accounting for different temperature, altitude and wind, its a miss 100% of the time
4) Environment - Target shooting at long range can be done 365 days a year. One can decide it's too hot, cold, or windy today to shoot. Hunters are restricted by set seasons, generally cold, and with totally unpredictible winds. Long range target shooters have the advantage of shooting on their range in the same direction with the same sun angles, and same prevailing winds on most days.

Comparing hunting to shooting is about like comparing the driving range to a golf course. There are similarities and extreme differences. The skill needed to master a driving range is modest compared to shooting par on a golf course.

Have done a bit of long range shooting, I will hold to my main point that for every 100 guys that think they are going to go out and successfully take a long range shot on game, only a handful of the best practiced and luckiest will connect. There is no need to fear the rise of long range hunting as tied to a massive increase in wounded animals. It's just way too hard to hit ANYTHING past 500 yards to make the slightest difference on the sport. Take a look at how many long range rigs are for sale accross the net and you begin to see that many people thought they could throw enough money at their rifle to be successful at long range and then found out that it's a challenge that money alone can't solve.

I don't bow hunt, but I have a tremendous respect for the amount of skill it takes to get within bow range of an animal and then to execute that bow shot often holding draw for a long time. The challenges that bow hunting present are in the same class as what draws people to long range hunting....ITS NOT EASY!

Old Hunter
06-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Fair answers, but #1 bothers me, and the main reason i'm not a fan of such long shots. Should a 1000yd shot be taken at an animal if the exact yardage and wind speed isn't known for sure?

Not a big deal on a target. A very big deal on an animal.


Also, let me touch back on my original questions. Does someone who can deal with the conditions in the field compared to a target shooter. Make him a better shooter, or hunter?

Sabot
06-03-2012, 07:37 PM
Thanks for the honest dialogue Pete.

In reference to #1, all I can tell you is that if taking a shot with less than a 50% chance of a hit makes you uncomfortable, then I do understand your objection to it. The lower probabilty of a hit is exactly what makes taking such a shot attractive and exciting. The consequence to the animal is that of all animals shot at at long range, FAR fewer are hit or killed than other types of hunting. If your concern is that there is a higher % chance of wounding, I think you can look at it this way: For all of the animals shot at under 400 yards, X percent will be hit and killed and Y % will be merely wounded and never recovered. We hear tons of these stories every year.

At long range, the % of X (hit and killed) is WAY lower per shots taken, and Y (merely wounded) may be higher than those wounded at shorter range. For example (made up numbers): For every 100 shots taken inside 400 yards, 80 might be hits and 65 might be DRT with 15 not recovered. At long range, you MIGHT get 15 total hits per 100 shots and maybe 5 are not lethal. Don't know if those numbers are anywhere near reality, but I'd agree that there may be a larger % of hit wounded and not killed, but the total numbers are going to be tiny in comparison to closer range. When we hunt at traditional yardages, we accept the possibility that some of our shots may result in wounded game...even if we are dead certain it's a layup shot, things still happen. If you accept the same premise in long range, then now we are just debating what an acceptable % might be. For some, the shot needs to be 90% sure to drop instantly to feel ethical about it, and I respect that.

My broader perspective is in the area of bird hunting> I shoot hundreds of shells a year at hundreds of birds, and the nature of the chaotic, fast pace of wing shooting makes it impossible to be certain every shot taken will result in a clean kill. Like most waterfowlers, I detest sky busting birds that are beyond reasonable range, but that reasonable range involves a ton of subjectivity. As a result, I'm sure that ther are dozens of birds that I have shot at that flew off and died (based on thousands shot at). That is acceptable to me.

For your final thought, I would absolutely argue that someone who can deal with field conditions and still make the shot is a better hunter than someone who can merely make a long shot on steel. Being a better hunter has more to do with putting yourself in position to make a shot and then making it. But that is only my opinion and what would impress me more.

I'm certain that there are far better civilian shooters from an accuracy perspective than many military snipers, but can they make that shot under battlefield conditions? That's what makes snipers better marksman, but that is purely my subjective opinion. They are 2 similar, but very different pursuits, yet both involve making a 1000 yard shot.

Perhaps a big point of view difference here is that I see long range shooting and long range hunting as related, but totally different pursuits. The guns and ammo are actually VERY different. I would never long range target shoot with Nosler Accubonds, and I'd never hunt with Sierra Match Kings.

Old Hunter
06-03-2012, 09:27 PM
Just so you understand me, because you may have missed my past posts. I was taught to hunt from my dad in the early 50's. His style was still hunting in timber. He drove it into me to never take anything but safe shots. It's how i've hunted big game all my life. I do take long shots for coyote hunting, but a miss or wound doesn't bother me like it would for deer and elk.

Not to brag, because it's nothing to brag about, but i've never lost an animal. (big game). That's not really had to do if you have the discipline to pass up unsafe shots. All my skills revolve around getting close. 100yds is a long shot that I rarely take. What needs to be practiced is running shots, but even then they aren't taken unless conditions are perfect. Most of my shots with a gun could be taken with a bow. Probably 90% were taken with a 30-30 for deer and elk.

So, you can understand why I might cringe when I read about 1000 yd shots. All I can hope is that whoever is doing them, has the skill to make the shot.

az.mountain runner
06-03-2012, 10:53 PM
Bow hunters definitely love the challenge of up close and personal , and personally I see no hunting skill in long range shooting, and that is basically the only skill I see is long range capability .for me no thanks , I'd rather hunt for my game and go home empty handed ,than bench shoot an animal .

Sabot
06-04-2012, 06:21 PM
I appreciate the honest discussion Pete and I respect your approach to hunting 100%.

Az Mtn runner - I understand that long range hunting has no appeal or point to you. It is far more complex than just "bench shooting an animal". Just because there is no traditional stalk involved doesn't mean there are no hunting skills involved. Hopefully, we as sportmen do not condemn those who choose to hunt in a way that is uninteresting or "not hunting" to us.

For example, it is my view that modern muzzle loaders are just as effetive as rifles at ranges where 90% of kills occur (under 300 yards). I think a muzzle loader season is unneccessary unless you are going to only leyt guys use primitive style muzzle loader. Likewise, in some states, you can bow hunt with a cross bow. Again, I think that is dumb and not fair to true archers. HOWEVER, I would never criticize those that enjoy those two variations of muzzle loading and archery, because I appreciate the freedom we have to pursue what makes us happy (life liberty and the pursuit...). The day we start telling each other how they should or shouldn't hunt is the day we have joined forces with those who wish to regulate us out of existence all together.

I suppose part of the fun of getting on the internet is to argue about stuff with people in order to vent our opinions. Nobody ever gets their mind changed or changes anyone else's. That said, I will sign off of this thread and thank all who have engaged in the discussion in a civil way.

BKC
06-04-2012, 07:09 PM
I appreciate the honest discussion Pete and I respect your approach to hunting 100%.

Az Mtn runner - I understand that long range hunting has no appeal or point to you. It is far more complex than just "bench shooting an animal". Just because there is no traditional stalk involved doesn't mean there are no hunting skills involved. Hopefully, we as sportmen do not condemn those who choose to hunt in a way that is uninteresting or "not hunting" to us.

For example, it is my view that modern muzzle loaders are just as effetive as rifles at ranges where 90% of kills occur (under 300 yards). I think a muzzle loader season is unneccessary unless you are going to only leyt guys use primitive style muzzle loader. Likewise, in some states, you can bow hunt with a cross bow. Again, I think that is dumb and not fair to true archers. HOWEVER, I would never criticize those that enjoy those two variations of muzzle loading and archery, because I appreciate the freedom we have to pursue what makes us happy (life liberty and the pursuit...). The day we start telling each other how they should or shouldn't hunt is the day we have joined forces with those who wish to regulate us out of existence all together.

I suppose part of the fun of getting on the internet is to argue about stuff with people in order to vent our opinions. Nobody ever gets their mind changed or changes anyone else's. That said, I will sign off of this thread and thank all who have engaged in the discussion in a civil way. This is a long thread with a ton of responses but this may be the best response. Well said Sabot.

Old Hunter
06-04-2012, 09:01 PM
Sabot,

Let me address your ML comments. I completely agree that the ML season should have been kept more primitive. However, Colorado has tried to keep it that way. They banned inlines, but it only lasted one year. Too much pressure from the manufacturers. They tried to ban BH 209 powder, but again they failed. They are sticking to no scopes, pellets, or sabots. This in itself limits a muzzleloader to much shorter distances than a CF gun. Unless you have eyes like an Eagle. The average guy with somewhere around 125 yds max distance. That puts it right back to the distance of a traditional sidelock muzzleloader. Even with a scope and sabots that other states allow. 300yds is quite a stretch. Way to much drop to the bullets, and wind will blow the bullet around quite a bit. Much much harder than CF guns that are only dealing with a few inches. You also have to deal with no fast follow up shot.

I'll tell you what i'd like to see in Colorado. Give us a primitive ML season. You'd be required to use a sidelock, primitive sights, black powder, and a round ball. (PRB) Give us a bit longer season during the rut like archery, because we'd have to get close, and being able to call them in would help. As it does in archery.

Then they could pick a later time in the year, and have a modern muzzleloader season. You would be able to use inlines, sabots, scopes etc. Maybe even let them use smokeless muzzleloaders too. Maybe it could be combined with the rifle seasons. This way everybody is happy, and the DOW doesn't lose any money on tag sales.

Then you have to look at archery. Compound bows were never the intention of giving bow hunters a month long season. A compound bow is the inline ML of the archery season. It was suppose to be a primitive hunting season. That's why more time was given to get it done. I know my local warden wishes the season was shortened to be like the other seasons. Compound hunters are something like 90% right now. So, it's become a problem. I wouldn't be surprised to see the season shortened. I have no dog in that fight. Just talking about what i've heard.

In God We Trust
06-04-2012, 09:22 PM
We have enough seasons in Colorado already. I see nothing wrong with inline smoke poles or compound bows. What next rifle seasons that you have to use iron sights with. I bow hunt as well as smoke pole and rifle. I see nothing wrong with the way things are. If you want to hunt with an old school smoke pole than do it during smoke pole season. If you want to hunt with a recurve then we have an archery season. If you like rifle hunting we have a rifle season. I like to hunt with a lever action rifle for deer sometimes with open sights, I am not asking for a special season. I don't care if people shoot animals at 25 yards or 1000 yards. Hunters need to quit bickering over petty B.S and stand together against anti gun and anti hunting groups. This thread is ridiculous and needs to go away, enough is enough!

Old Hunter
06-04-2012, 10:06 PM
It doesn't matter what you think. It's what the DOW thinks, and that's what I was passing on.

Interesting you make a post like you did, and then complain about bickering.

N.Y.ArcheryMadMan
06-12-2012, 06:44 PM
I Definintly perfer Archery over anything else. I think as a Bowhunter you are actually a better Hunter. 9.5 out 10 times you are up close and personal to the animal you are hunting... And to get that Close it is like a Chess Game and you have to get into the mind of the Animal... I will ALWAYS enjoy the Challenge and the Thrill of Bowhunting.....

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 12:30 PM
Just thought you guys might want to see this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6HAIm1pX4 I am pro Long range hunting, just because you dont have the skill to do it doesnt mean you should stomp on people who do. That is Shawn Carlock, patent holder of the 338 EDGE and developer of the 338 EDGE +P. His longest kill to date is an elk at 1310 yards with his 338 Edge (300 rum necked up to .338). heres another great video show casing the extreme accuracy of some of his long range hunting rigs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqCMfTZuWB8

ivorytip
09-08-2012, 01:33 PM
cool video

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 01:44 PM
ivorytip, i see that you are from idaho, Shawn is from Northern Idaho.

Old Hunter
09-08-2012, 03:46 PM
Just thought you guys might want to see this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6HAIm1pX4 I am pro Long range hunting, just because you dont have the skill to do it doesnt mean you should stomp on people who do. That is Shawn Carlock, patent holder of the 338 EDGE and developer of the 338 EDGE +P. His longest kill to date is an elk at 1310 yards with his 338 Edge (300 rum necked up to .338). heres another great video show casing the extreme accuracy of some of his long range hunting rigs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqCMfTZuWB8

Good shooting. Where's the hunting part?

Some of us think there's a difference. Some don't. We don't have to agree. Hunt the way you want to, and stop saying we don't like it because we can't do it. Maybe we don't want to.

trkytrack2
09-08-2012, 05:20 PM
X2....In God We Trust.

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 06:48 PM
Good shooting. Where's the hunting part?

Some of us think there's a difference. Some don't. We don't have to agree. Hunt the way you want to, and stop saying we don't like it because we can't do it. Maybe we don't want to.
Put it this way, if i showed you that video and they said the range was 230 yards and it took .25 MOA up for elevation and shot, you would think "Hey that was a good ethical shot!" but since you know its 500+ yards you think its unethical?!?!

This guy practices and shoots at least 500 practice rounds a year not including hunting. The bullets he uses is $40 for a box of 50, his brass is $1 a piece or more, he uses around 90 grains of powder per shot. lets say he get 5 reloads out of each case. Thats $100 in brass+ $400 in bullets+ 6.5 pounds of powder at $23.99 a pound so $156 in powder so all that added up is $656 JUST in practice. That doesnt include gas money to get to where he practices.

Also he can shoot 1/2 MOA or better PAST 1500 yards so you cant tell me that him shooting at game at 1000 yards is unethical.

Lets say its the last day of your out of state mule deer hunt. There is 30 minutes of shooting light left and you see a 200" buck a 890 yards but you are not capable of makeing that shot and you cant get any closer, you would have to pass on the buck. On the other hand he is not out of range for me, or Shawn.

And one more thing then i will be done with my little rant, Shawn puts it this way, he said "I wont take a shot unless i would be completely astonished if i missed."

Ok, done with rant, go about your weekend.

Old Hunter
09-08-2012, 07:05 PM
Like I said. Good shooting.

If you knew me. You wouldn't ever ask me those what ifs. It's not my hunting style.

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 07:16 PM
And im not claiming to know you. But just remember that those deer or elk that are out of range for you, arent for me.:p

sjsmallfield
09-08-2012, 07:20 PM
I thought this thread died along time ago.... Oh well.

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 07:38 PM
like stated before this thread is immortal!

Drhorsepower
09-08-2012, 07:38 PM
I thought this thread died along time ago.... Oh well.

This thread is like herpes, just keeps coming back and brings back bad memories.

Old Hunter
09-08-2012, 09:09 PM
And im not claiming to know you. But just remember that those deer or elk that are out of range for you, arent for me.:p

They never were in my range. Even though I could take them. You're trying to convince me of your style of hunting. Not going to happen.

Now, lets drop it.

Ikeepitcold
09-08-2012, 09:31 PM
Hey BB look what's back! Hahha Dr. The gift that keeps on givin!!

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 09:33 PM
They never were in my range. Even though I could take them. You're trying to convince me of your style of hunting. Not going to happen.

Now, lets drop it.
ah well to each his own.

Old Hunter
09-08-2012, 09:35 PM
to each his own.

Damn right!

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 09:45 PM
BTW www.longrangehunting.com is a great website.:cool:

Elkoholic307
09-08-2012, 09:53 PM
True. Lots of great folks and an immense amount of knowledge there.

barnesuser28
09-08-2012, 10:05 PM
True. Lots of great folks and an immense amount of knowledge there.
hey Tom right? Member of Team 3 Ball?:D

Elkoholic307
09-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Better believe it!

barnesuser28
09-09-2012, 10:18 AM
Better believe it! Your youtube videos are awesome.

Elkoholic307
09-09-2012, 10:47 AM
Thanks! A lot more to come this year. We've been filming long range doe antelope kills lately. Here's a still from a video a few nights ago.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/tj_vanderploeg/doedomination.jpg

She done got run over by a 270 gr. TSX!

barnesuser28
09-09-2012, 10:57 AM
Thanks! A lot more to come this year. We've been filming long range doe antelope kills lately. Here's a still from a video a few nights ago.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/tj_vanderploeg/doedomination.jpg

She done got run over by a 270 gr. TSX!
At about 400 yards with a 375 rum leaving a softball sized exit hole in her neck?:D I saw tikkamike's thread on lrh.

Elkoholic307
09-09-2012, 11:00 AM
Lol yeah, it was pretty gnarly.

barnesuser28
09-09-2012, 11:05 AM
the legs look like they are 4 feet long. i hope to shoot one in about a month from now. at 500+ yards :D.

Elkoholic307
09-09-2012, 11:11 AM
Nice. What state and with what gun? 338 LM?

barnesuser28
09-09-2012, 11:13 AM
wyoming unit 23 and savage 338 Lapua pushing the 280 grain Barnes LRX at 2707 fps.

Elkoholic307
09-09-2012, 11:20 AM
Sweet. Is that the 111 LRH or 110 FCP?

barnesuser28
09-09-2012, 11:21 AM
FCP wearing a 6.5-20x50 Mark 4

Smokinchevy
09-12-2012, 07:46 PM
I agree that it's not ethical, yes the shots can be made, I have friends that shoot LR and push "Nightforce" and "Trijicon" on me, too expensvie for my blood. I am of the opinion that the longe range business is just that, a business, its probably a blast shooting and hitting targets that far out, but it seems to me that a majority of the hunt is missing with this type of approach. I also believe in freedom of choice and would never push my opinion on others, but strongly believe that the stalk is just as satisfying, if not more, than a kill.

montanahunter10
02-28-2013, 05:47 PM
Havent been impressed with BOTW. I have a friend that guided for them last spring, it aired last week i believe, spring bear hunt in western montana. He said he wasnt impressed with how they reacted to shooting animals, and that they even wounded a bear and didnt want to track it.

Elkoholic307
02-28-2013, 05:49 PM
Long range hunting should be banned!!!!!

ssliger
02-28-2013, 07:04 PM
I thought this thread died!!!

dhershberger
02-28-2013, 10:29 PM
NO! NOT AGAIN! I hate this thread.

Shane13
02-28-2013, 11:02 PM
If you have practiced and CAN make the shot, then it's ethical. If you can't make a good shot at 100 yards, then that's too far. "Ethical" shot distance is different for every shooter. I don't shoot 1,000 at anything, but I have better things to do than to run down those that can and do. It's legal. They enjoy it. They put meat in the freezer and antlers on the wall to enjoy. More power to them. It's OK if we don't all hunt the same way. :)