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Grizbacker
04-02-2012, 08:08 PM
Ok i need some help from the experts please. I am having a lot of issues tuning my bow. It is a new 2011 carbon element. I had it all set up with a qad drop away rest and spot hog sight. The guys at the bow shop couldn't get it to tune right so they put some twist in the cables and told me it should be good to go. I get it home and sure enough i can tell the arrow is flying sideways. I take it back and tell them, and we shoot it through the paper and it is tearing right and left with no pattern. The guy there tells me this is fine because it is not tearing bad (.5 to 1.5 inches) and he doesn't want to mess with it anymore. So i decide i am done with them and take it home to try to tune myself.

So it is tearing both left and right but no pattern. Even tried each arrow individualy and still no pattern. What should i do to get is shooting strait? Thanks in advance!

dcestnik
04-02-2012, 08:35 PM
1/2 - 1 1/2" off on paper sounds very bad. Check your arrow spine charts, cam timing, rest drop, centershot and form for obvious issues before even tuning a nockpoint. My draw stops were 1/2" off and was still able to get close to bullet holes.

DaveZ
04-02-2012, 08:45 PM
The way you describe the right left tears with no pattern, I would start with checking that everthing is tight (rest, nock point, etc.). Then make sure your not getting any fletching contact. Lastly, make sure your rest is getting out of the way.

If you don't find anything that is obvious, double check all the bow specs (axel to axel, brace height, draw weight). Let me know what you find.

FYI-Your experience is why I stopped going to "Pro Shops". Except for a few, they should remove the "Pro".

RUTTIN
04-02-2012, 09:44 PM
When I paper tune, I start off with a bare shaft, that way you can be sure you are not getting any fletching clearance problems. Like mentioned above make sure you are using the correct spine arrow. Make sure your bow is in spec.(axle to axle, brace height, and cams timed right) Another problem some people have is torquing the bow, make sure you shoot with a relaxed hand. If you still have problems and don't trust your pro shop, you may consider having your bow shipped to a reputable dealer that will do the job right, like The Bow Rack in Springfield Oregon, or Mountain Archery in Idaho, both places should take care of you without any problems.

Grizbacker
04-02-2012, 09:56 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I am shooting carbon express maxima 350's with 70 lb draw 29.5 inch draw length so the spine is ok. I am pretty new to archery so not real all that great at the tuning/checking clearances with the rest. I am shooting with the cock feather oriented strait up oriented with the string and the bump on the nock perpedicular to it on the right side. Is this right? should i mess with it at all? Also it seems that my arrow is not perfectly level. By this i mean slightly downhill or the point is lower than the nock almost like the dloop is too high on the string. Is this bad?

Grizbacker
04-02-2012, 10:43 PM
Just checked my axle to axle length and it came in at 31 3/4 inches which i think is a 1/4 inch short?

RUTTIN
04-03-2012, 07:16 AM
Grizbacker, you are correct you are a 1/4 inch short. ATA should be 32 inches, and brace height should be 7 inches. I would get those in spec first and then start tuning. You could also smear some of your wifes lipstick(red works good) on your fletchings, shoot an arrow and see if you have lipstick on your rest to see if your rest is out of time. If you have your manual for your bow it should give you a good starting point on what to do to tune it. Usually a right or left tear is the arrow rest is not set for center shot, or the handle is being torqued, try having a friend shoot your bow and see what they get out of it.

Graylight
04-03-2012, 09:38 AM
If they twisted your cable, like you had said, that will explain your axle to axle being 1/4" short... You may want to take the twists out... Start with two, then go from there until you're into spec. Also, remember that spec is just the manufacturers reference point, as all bows shoot slightly different even in the same model line...


Just checked my axle to axle length and it came in at 31 3/4 inches which i think is a 1/4 inch short?

8750
04-03-2012, 10:08 AM
The way you describe the right left tears with no pattern, I would start with checking that everthing is tight (rest, nock point, etc.). Then make sure your not getting any fletching contact. Lastly, make sure your rest is getting out of the way.

If you don't find anything that is obvious, double check all the bow specs (axel to axel, brace height, draw weight). Let me know what you find.

FYI-Your experience is why I stopped going to "Pro Shops". Except for a few, they should remove the "Pro".

The last line are my sentiments exactly!
Im pretty new to archery and I took my new bow in to have it tuned and a new sight put on at the local "Pro" shop. I am so happy they did such a terrible job because it motivated me to do some research, invest in a few crucial tools, and start learning to master my bow. I still have a lot to learn, but there is a ton of information available. Ive learned a great deal by searching this site alone. There really are not many secrets and it baffles me how the "pro" shops flail so bad at what is not rocket science.

Get a book, search forums like this and many retail sights like Spott Hogg and Gold Tip for info. Most of all learn to enjoy the learning curve. The greatest gains in knowledge come from the inevitable mistakes made during the process.

JNDEER
04-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I am shooting carbon express maxima 350's with 70 lb draw 29.5 inch draw length so the spine is ok. I am pretty new to archery so not real all that great at the tuning/checking clearances with the rest. I am shooting with the cock feather oriented strait up oriented with the string and the bump on the nock perpedicular to it on the right side. Is this right? should i mess with it at all? Also it seems that my arrow is not perfectly level. By this i mean slightly downhill or the point is lower than the nock almost like the dloop is too high on the string. Is this bad?

What are your arrows cut to?

Yes and NO!

I had the hardest time with my 2011 Element. I have a 30" draw and was using maxima hunter 350's but cut to 30". After a lot of research even if I cut them to 28" I would still be underspined!!

It is my opinion that you are underspinned. According to the charts at 70# and the very aggressive cam systems on the Hoyt your actual poundage (when selecting a CX arrow) would be around 85 or more. You may need to upgrade to the 450's.

That is what I did and had them cut to 29".... At first I still had issues with the tune. I could not paper tune or bare shaft tune AT ALL! I went to walk back tunning with my FP (make sure you use the FP) and go to say 40 yards. Than go to broadhead tunning and see if you are close. I was still off and when I tried to BH tune they kept the same distance apart while moving the rest. This was very frustrating.....after more advice it was suggested that I was torqueing my bow. I really did NOT think I was as I had a loose relaxed hold with little to no kick of the bow upon release. I tried moving my grip around and adjusting it and wamo!

That was my problem. I am now getting great BH and FP flight with them hitting the same POI.

ontarget7
04-04-2012, 06:46 AM
Ok i need some help from the experts please. I am having a lot of issues tuning my bow. It is a new 2011 carbon element. I had it all set up with a qad drop away rest and spot hog sight. The guys at the bow shop couldn't get it to tune right so they put some twist in the cables and told me it should be good to go. I get it home and sure enough i can tell the arrow is flying sideways. I take it back and tell them, and we shoot it through the paper and it is tearing right and left with no pattern. The guy there tells me this is fine because it is not tearing bad (.5 to 1.5 inches) and he doesn't want to mess with it anymore. So i decide i am done with them and take it home to try to tune myself.

So it is tearing both left and right but no pattern. Even tried each arrow individualy and still no pattern. What should i do to get is shooting strait? Thanks in advance!

Give me a call after 4:30 PM during the week and I will be glad to help you out.

Shane

ontarget7
04-04-2012, 06:59 AM
Give me a call after 4:30 PM during the week and I will be glad to help you out.

Shane

Sorry 435-592-0231

RobinHood
04-04-2012, 07:24 AM
You guys are right on. These so called pro shops can do more damage than harm. Be vary wary of the 'professional' opinion.

I have a couple suggestions:
1. I have a Hoyt Alphamax, 28.5" draw, 72 lbs. All the arrow charts said I should be shooting 350 arrows, however my arrow flight was inconsistent and the arrows were constantly hitting left. I did some research and found that was a sign of under spine arrows. I went from Beman 340's to Beman 300's a stiffer arrow and it made all the difference in the world. I figured this out using some of the pro arrow selector programs. Not saying this is your problem, but just be aware that the charts may be a little misleading.

2. I have hunted with my bow for 3 years pretty hard. Lots of bumps, bangs, drops, etc. I took it to a local shop and I think he screwed things up even more. So l did as others mentioned and logged onto ArcheryTalk.com and found a well known archrey shop in Wisconsisn to do a full tuneup, cleaning, and new strings for $129. They paper tune everything, run it through the chrono, and make sure the bow is entirely within spec. He is a Hoyt dealer, so he knows his stuff. Give him a look if you get a chance. Some of the best cash I have spent on my bow.
http://scottcustomarchery.com/custom-shop/deluxe-bow-tuning/

I dont trust the shops around here and dont have the tools to do it myself, so this was my only option. It has proven beneficial and helped me gain confidence in my equipment.

Grizbacker
04-04-2012, 11:05 AM
You guys are great thanks for the help. I do not have the money and time to invest in a bowpress and learn to completely tune it myself. I am kind of leaning towards what one of you guys said and sending it to a reputable dealer to do a full tune. Shane, imay still give you a call one evening this week and see if you can help. For those that asked, my arrows are cut to 28 7/8" and I am using 100 grain tips. Im off to try it on the paper again will check back here again tonight.

Grizbacker
04-04-2012, 11:41 AM
You guys are right on. These so called pro shops can do more damage than harm. Be vary wary of the 'professional' opinion.

I have a couple suggestions:
1. I have a Hoyt Alphamax, 28.5" draw, 72 lbs. All the arrow charts said I should be shooting 350 arrows, however my arrow flight was inconsistent and the arrows were constantly hitting left. I did some research and found that was a sign of under spine arrows. I went from Beman 340's to Beman 300's a stiffer arrow and it made all the difference in the world. I figured this out using some of the pro arrow selector programs. Not saying this is your problem, but just be aware that the charts may be a little misleading.

2. I have hunted with my bow for 3 years pretty hard. Lots of bumps, bangs, drops, etc. I took it to a local shop and I think he screwed things up even more. So l did as others mentioned and logged onto ArcheryTalk.com and found a well known archrey shop in Wisconsisn to do a full tuneup, cleaning, and new strings for $129. They paper tune everything, run it through the chrono, and make sure the bow is entirely within spec. He is a Hoyt dealer, so he knows his stuff. Give him a look if you get a chance. Some of the best cash I have spent on my bow.
http://scottcustomarchery.com/custom-shop/deluxe-bow-tuning/

I dont trust the shops around here and dont have the tools to do it myself, so this was my only option. It has proven beneficial and helped me gain confidence in my equipment.

How do you like those new strings? I really like that option, but am not so sure i want new strings. The bow is brand new and there is nothing wrong with the factory ones on it.

RobinHood
04-04-2012, 01:20 PM
I change my strings each year, so I am used to new ones.

There are a couple things I like about it:
1) the bow is tuned with those strings on it. So if you need an extra twist or a twist taken out that is done to ensure the bow is shooting properly when it gets to you.

2) and much less important, I choose the colors so I can customize the color of my bow.

It is a good plan if you want to be able to pick up your bow and shoot, knowing it is properly tuned

ontarget7
04-04-2012, 04:18 PM
You guys are great thanks for the help. I do not have the money and time to invest in a bowpress and learn to completely tune it myself. I am kind of leaning towards what one of you guys said and sending it to a reputable dealer to do a full tune. Shane, imay still give you a call one evening this week and see if you can help. For those that asked, my arrows are cut to 28 7/8" and I am using 100 grain tips. Im off to try it on the paper again will check back here again tonight.

You would be weak on spine with that set up. When you are weak on spine it is a waste of time to shoot through paper because you will end up moving your rest to compensate for the tears you are getting through paper. When in reality it is the weak spine causing the bad tears. Its not the end of the world and you don't have to be out more money to get it to shoot good. It won't be optimal because of the weak spine but it will do until you can purchase more arrows down the road. Just give me a call and I will give you a few tips and help get you through the frustrations you are going through.

Shane

cnalder
04-04-2012, 06:58 PM
I'm with everyone on the "Pro" shop thing. I had similar problems with tuning and they couldn't help me out. I shoot a Bowtech Justice at 70lb w/29" draw. Arrow is cut to 28.5". Started with beman 340s and could never get them to paper tune or shoot well. Broadheads made it even worse. Like Robinhood I eventually went to the beman 300s. Solved all my problems until I had a reputible "Pro" shop in Boise put on a new string. They couldn't get any arrow to paper tune and told me it was my rest and that I was shooting the wrong arrows. Of coarse they wanted me to buy a new rest and arrows from them. Said no thanks I'll work on it. Got home and immediately saw my veins hitting the riser. Simple solution and my FP and BH group together again. Definitely is worth learning to tune you bow as I'm not sure many of the shops know how to do it correctly.

I'd be extremely unhappy if I bought a new Element, given the price, and the shop couldn't get it tuned. Good luck.

Grizbacker
04-04-2012, 07:26 PM
You would be weak on spine with that set up. When you are weak on spine it is a waste of time to shoot through paper because you will end up moving your rest to compensate for the tears you are getting through paper. When in reality it is the weak spine causing the bad tears. Its not the end of the world and you don't have to be out more money to get it to shoot good. It won't be optimal because of the weak spine but it will do until you can purchase more arrows down the road. Just give me a call and I will give you a few tips and help get you through the frustrations you are going through.

Shane

Shane,

I'll give you a call tomorrow (thurs) evening if that works for you. Thanks again!

ontarget7
04-04-2012, 07:35 PM
Shane,

I'll give you a call tomorrow (thurs) evening if that works for you. Thanks again!

Not a problem

wolftalonID
04-05-2012, 10:18 AM
Last year I had Sportsmans put on new strings for the first time in years from original purchase. I also decided to try some maxima bluestreak select arrows and find out if they shot any better than the Sportsmans branded hunters.
Everything was nearly the same and my shot groups were fine. I did notice though with the new strings my arrow tip sat down when at rest. I use the wisker biscut rest. I had never noticed it do that before. My groups were fine so I didnt think it was an issue. I asked anyway when I went by the shop the day before a week long hunt. My regular tech was not there. There was this other person there I had never seen. I asked about the way the arrow was sitting. Next thing I know they took my entire rest and site off the bow!!! I was so pissed. They had not moved in 4 years, as well both were completely adjustable! By the time they got it back together it was totally FUBAR and I just said thankyou and left. I could not get ahold of anyone I knew in Boise due to the hunt season, so reluctantly went to Cabelas shop for some help. They used a laser to realign my set up, and got my bow shooting nice groups again. However they did not have a paper frame to test through and my sight, rest and arrow are 3/8" closer to the riser than they ever were before. I can hold decent groups but had to adjust in my grip to get the same site picture as I had before. I know its not right as well. My groups past 50 yards are all over the place when before they were within 3" of each other.
It all started with new strings because I needed them.....its very frustrating to say the least.
Good luck with finding a "pro" you will need it. And be ready to clock any bozo that decides to disassemble your bow to fix it!! LOL.

BKC
04-05-2012, 12:09 PM
I had a "pro shop" who said they make there own custom strings replace the original string on my PSE. After 3 trips back there to have them fix the twist on my string I gave up. The peep ( G5 ) was always different every time I pulled back. The d loop string was always pointed to the side every time I tried to hook my release on it. I live about 45 minute drive from the "pro shop". I spent more in gas than I did on the string! The guy who made the strings calls his company DRAGON SILK CUSTOM STRINGS ( Denver area). Never use this clown!