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HuntinFever
04-09-2012, 04:26 PM
Does anyone know which unit in Colorado they were hunting on in the last episode? For clarification it was the episode where Ike was hunting with the guy from savage arms.

In God We Trust
04-09-2012, 09:30 PM
Not sure what unit, but I think it is private property.

Ikeepitcold
04-10-2012, 09:23 PM
It was on private property at the Hill Ranches in Southern Co.

Muleys 24/7
04-10-2012, 09:59 PM
That was a nice buck. I just watched it about an hour ago

Ikeepitcold
04-10-2012, 10:49 PM
Ya it was. It was on last season but cool to see it again

In God We Trust
04-11-2012, 10:46 PM
One more thing, that was an early season rifle buck tag which takes 3+ years to draw or you pay an outfitter a ton of cash for a tag.

Ikeepitcold
04-11-2012, 11:20 PM
Ya probably but it was the CEO of Savage arms so I'm sure he can afford it.

BKC
04-12-2012, 08:32 AM
One more thing, that was an early season rifle buck tag which takes 3+ years to draw or you pay an outfitter a ton of cash for a tag.

The Hill ranch doesn't have an early rifle tag for the public. That hunt had to be bought ( written off as advertising or research or ? ) by the savage arms guy.

In God We Trust
04-12-2012, 02:54 PM
The Hill ranch doesn't have an early rifle tag for the public. That hunt had to be bought ( written off as advertising or research or ? ) by the savage arms guy.
If that is the case then that is B.S. I wish the colorado DOW would quit pandering to the rich with tags only wealthy people can afford. The wildlife allegedly belongs to the public. Yet somehow more Govenors tags, land owner vouchers, and outfitter vouchers go to the highest bidder every year. The whole system is corrupt and polluted with political dishonesty!

buckbull
04-12-2012, 03:57 PM
If that is the case then that is B.S. I wish the colorado DOW would quit pandering to the rich with tags only wealthy people can afford. The wildlife allegedly belongs to the public. Yet somehow more Govenors tags, land owner vouchers, and outfitter vouchers go to the highest bidder every year. The whole system is corrupt and polluted with political dishonesty!

I couldn't agree more. If they have that kind of money to burn and need to kill something that bad then they need to hunt a high fence opperation and leave the public animals for the public.

BKC
04-12-2012, 06:31 PM
If that is the case then that is B.S. I wish the colorado DOW would quit pandering to the rich with tags only wealthy people can afford. The wildlife allegedly belongs to the public. Yet somehow more Govenors tags, land owner vouchers, and outfitter vouchers go to the highest bidder every year. The whole system is corrupt and polluted with political dishonesty!
Im not sure if anyone knows how the ranching for wildlife works. Basically the land owner and the colo dow work in conjunction to improve wildlife habitat and if the landowner can prove that his land can support better than average carrying capacity then the colo dow gives the land owner more tags, agreed upon by both as long as the public gets to 10% of those tags ( issued through the draw).These tags are over and above the tags they would already get just base upon the size of the ranch, even if they weren't in the program.
The Hill Ranch has 1 buck deer tag available to the public. I heard that they don't want to shoot does because that would cut into the number of deer ( 1/2 bucks+/-) born each year. This means they get 9 tags, above and beyond the tags they already have issued to them even if they weren't in the program. They can choose to use them as they see fit and can sell them for whatever they want and can use them any time of the season with any weapon they want! The public tag is for Nov. 19-28. Maybe the deer are rutting but alot of the ranch is starting to get snow and this limits how much land you can really access. Ranch's can also close parts of the ranch for their cattle operation, pregnant heifers in a big pasture screws you on access also. Oh by the way, you have to leave the ranch every evening and check in every morning. No showing up a couple of days before the season and scouting.
If this seems unfair, now lets talk elk. They give out 3 either sex bull tags. Triple the above numbers and you can see how many tags they get , again over and above the ones they get even without participating in the program. They do have 26 cow tags available thru the draw if your interested on checking out the ranch. The trouble with this is it takes 2 or 3 points to get these cow tags and then you must wait about 20 years ( currently 20, maybe 30 or more if you start point chasing now) if you want to hunt a bull. The either sex tag is also Nov. 19-28. They want all their ranching for wildlife hunters in and out during those dates. Well after the good weather, the rut, the first frost, the first snow, and most importantly after all their paid hunters have got 2 1/2 months to find and shoot
Bobby Hill does not want you and I on his property. He has to and that is a big inconvience to him. He also owns the Cieolo Vista ranch, which doesn't participate in the ranching fror wildlife program. It is, I think, bigger than the Hill ranch. Don't hate the player, hate the game ( the dow).
His hunts do make good TV for all the primos, eastmans, bone collectors, jim zumbo, Drurys, team reltree, blah blah...etc, but when you know the whole story, they are not so much fun to watch.
I have 21 preference points for elk and I will not be using them on the ranching for wildlife hunts. I will take my chances on the good old public land!

Colorado Cowboy
04-13-2012, 08:19 AM
15% of the limited quota tags for Deer, Elk & Antelope are skimmed right off the top to go to private land owners. To qualify as a private landowner all you need is a minimum of 160 acres of "agricultural land". Tag allocations are a pretty convoluted process. The formulas for dividing up the tag allocations gets really confusing.

First the 15% landowner set aside comes off the top.
Second the Resident vs Nonresident ...depending on the unit and demand, up to 35% for NRs.
Then there is the "Hybrid Draw" for high demand units....another 20% set aside.
New for 2012 is special Youth tags for late season anterless, another 15%.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out why "point creep" exists.

Edelweiss
04-13-2012, 11:14 AM
I can kind of see both sides of the fence.

1. you have a rancher that has property, he could just as easily never allow anyone to hunt. This is the case in Wyoming where land-owner tags have to go to the land-owner, for his personal use. They are not a voucher, they have his name/family names on them.

2. it gives the rancher an incentive to allow people on his property. But more importantly to the DOW, the land owner is providing the habitat either way. They might as well get some good out of it.

3. It provides anyone, not just CO residents an increased oppurtunity to spend money in CO. As I understand it, the landowner vouchers can be bought by residents as well as non-residents? For me it's nice to know you can have a CO cow elk or pronghorn landowner voucher for $800-1500 if you fail to draw a tag.

Colorado Cowboy
04-13-2012, 12:28 PM
I have hunted on a Ranching for Wildlife tag on a ranch north of Craig. Myself and 2 buddies drew either sex elk tags with 10 pts. We thought we would have a great hunt. The only problem with these tags is that the ranch gives you access only ( and in our case, not all the ranch was available). The ranch we hunted on had been worked really hard by the outfitter and the elk were pretty much gone into the adjacent NF. We saw nothing the first 2 days, then the elk started filtering back because of the hunting pressure on the NF. I shot a 5x5 (the only elk I saw!)and one of my hunting buddies shot a cow. We hunted hard for the whole 9 days and never saw another elk. There were 7 other hunters and they drew blanks. The bottom line IMHO, is that these RFW ranches don't give a damn about the RFW hunters! The only reason that you are there is so they can get a few extra tags to sell to their outfitter. I'll never waste another pt on this type of hunt.

BKC
04-13-2012, 02:07 PM
I have hunted on a Ranching for Wildlife tag on a ranch north of Craig. Myself and 2 buddies drew either sex elk tags with 10 pts. We thought we would have a great hunt. The only problem with these tags is that the ranch gives you access only ( and in our case, not all the ranch was available). The ranch we hunted on had been worked really hard by the outfitter and the elk were pretty much gone into the adjacent NF. We saw nothing the first 2 days, then the elk started filtering back because of the hunting pressure on the NF. I shot a 5x5 (the only elk I saw!)and one of my hunting buddies shot a cow. We hunted hard for the whole 9 days and never saw another elk. There were 7 other hunters and they drew blanks. The bottom line IMHO, is that these RFW ranches don't give a damn about the RFW hunters! The only reason that you are there is so they can get a few extra tags to sell to their outfitter. I'll never waste another pt on this type of hunt. I had like experience about 9 years ago with a deer tag and a rfw hunt. There are definitly good animals on a lot of these ranches but they do everything for you not to kill anything big. If you shoot a BIG bull then you just took 10K or more out of their pocket and thats not good for their BUSINESS!

In God We Trust
04-13-2012, 09:33 PM
A lot of the problem is the wildlife commission for the DOW here in Colorado is loaded with ranchers and outfitters. Not so many average hunters. They have a you scratch my back I will scratch yours system while they screw the average hunters. Somehow this group has the authority to set tag distribution for Colorado. I would like to see landowner vouchers made illegal to sell for a profit. We can't sell our tags to the highest bidder but these crooks can.