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View Full Version : WY G&F in Financial Trouble...



justinthedoc
07-31-2012, 10:00 AM
Ha Ha are you kidding me, in the Casper (RED) Star front page says there in a financial crisis and want the public input on what to do. Are you freaking kidn me, how about drop your freakknnn salaries you idiots. A game warden clears over 5500.00 a month plus free room and board, elec, and water not to mention the insane re-tiremnt. I hope everyone knows that NR, or resident that tag prices are going to go up cause of the greedy devils. Please for the love of the good lord some one with common sense show up to that meeting, and tell them to take a pay cut and leave the prices alone. There is no reason to have a regional wildlife supervisor, and a regional wildlife biologist supervisor. Together those two positions clear 200k, just wastefull politic crap that me and you will pay for.

Drelk
07-31-2012, 10:29 AM
Casper RED Star. Hahaha. Couldn't have said it better.

EBOLAVIRS
07-31-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't mind people making a decent wage, the whole race towards the bottom, cutting wages, outlook is not going to help the country. With all the oil/gas drilling and exploration going on which impacts habitat and requires additional enforcement, studies, research etc. they should start dinging the oil and gas companies some to offset their impact.

justinthedoc
07-31-2012, 12:13 PM
Thats the problem there already dipping into the general fund which is state funds paid mostly by the energy tax's. A 100k a year is more that a descent wage for what those guys do. And 66k a year starting for wardens is re-donkulous with housing provided, studies; what studies. What do you know that the G&F is doing besides CWD studies. Oh and lets not forget about our invasive species buddies. Hope everyone got there decal. WTF does nobody else see the pattern with these turds. Invasive species is a joke they will tell you gloom and doom, but do any of you honestly believe that any of those tards that check your boat those 4 months of the year stop any of what inevitably is going to be here. All the invasive crap is, is a fund producer thats IT.... Do you want to know who the largest spreader is of invasive species....
Fly-fisherman (neoprene waders) and thats a fact.... This is a trend when I worked there I made 1800 a month. So dnt talk to me about descent wages. And guess what those jobs are so sought after that you could pay that and you would have more than enough quailified people taking those jobs. All that article was, was a pre-emptive strike to say that "oh and by the way 2013 licenses are going UP".

Doe Nob
07-31-2012, 12:28 PM
Triple resident tag fees - that's what you do. You run up the non-res more you are going to run them off, pretty steep already.

Colorado Cowboy
07-31-2012, 01:46 PM
The money has got to be going somewhere. There were no numbers on the budget in the story....only the projected shortfall. I'll bet the gross revenue is up substantually, even with the supposed fewer hunters cited in the story. The fees for NRs is up, along with most of the NRs buying Points. W G & F created the "Special" License for NRs that is almost double in price too.

We will have to see what happens.

jenbickel
07-31-2012, 02:38 PM
I definitely don't vote for tripling resident fees.....

HuntWYODon
07-31-2012, 02:59 PM
All states keep raising their license and tag fee's for non residents all the time. They are the first to get gouged when they need money. Wy. fee's are some of the highest. $600 for an elk tag, $795 for a limited entry elk tag in Ut.. $1200 in Nv. $595 in Az. All those states except Wy. you have to buy a license also. Hey, maybe that will be their way to make more revenue... I think there comes a point when non res just say screw it or just put in for pts.. It always seems the the Warden's and other's have brand new trucks. I could be wrong. I'm sure there are cut's they could make.
Wow ! $66 grand starting salary, in Wy. ?

EBOLAVIRS
07-31-2012, 03:38 PM
So it boils down to the guys working there now make more than you made when you were there. Oh well, I don't get were all this salary envy came from the last few years. Its all over the news, its big in the political circles, its divisive and unproductive. They have a good job I say good for them. The Wal-Mart attitude of paying the lowest possible wage to fill a spot is not the approach I want to take when you are talking about someone who carries a gun and meets you in the woods somewhere. Just like I don't want the lowest possible paid highway patrolman pulling my daughter over in the middle of the night. If they raise the cost of the licenses it won't be due to the amount of money they pay their employees. If their budget was analyzed you would find giant sink holes of money for do nothing programs and projects, just like every other government organization. If Wyoming is anything like the state I live in, they could fire every state worker and the budget would only be reduced by 10%, yet that is the only thing you will hear the politicians yelling about, the wages paid to state workers. Jealousy and envy are the most basic human emotions, easily exploited, and politicians are nothing if not skilled exploiters.

justinthedoc
07-31-2012, 04:00 PM
Thats where your failing to understand how this states G&F works, its not salary envy its common sense. Its why detroit F-ed up. You dont pay someone 30$ an hour to push a damn button. Here (WY) you have a fisheries, and a big game side, funny how the big game side is the only side thats loosing the G&F money. The fisheries division profits millions of $$$. Not saying they shouldnt get paid, kudos to them for geting the money, I have many degrees could have made way more money than I did in a contract position, but chose that job because of the job. Its a great gig, thats why you can get better people with less pay, oh and by the way, the HP's here have high school degrees (not nocking a High school degree) so not exactly the cream of the crop. Its not a revenue problem thats B.S. I dare them to show us a number of any decrease in license sales, or any proof of less folks putting in for those licenses. The state poulation in the last ten years has almost doubled. Its a lie plain and simple, they just want more $$$, or are just planning more pay increases. And the trucks they replace when they get 75k miles on them. And its supposed to be that only on call LE guys can drive department trucks home. Now I see biologists, supervisors, and heck even the director of them gets to drive his green truck home and to work every day. Betcha that adds up to a few grand every month in just fuel.
No increases I dnt care if its for Res, or NR...

Let em go belly up, maybe its time to start over.

HuntWYODon
07-31-2012, 05:10 PM
Thats where your failing to understand how this states G&F works, its not salary envy its common sense. Its why detroit F-ed up. You dont pay someone 30$ an hour to push a damn button. Here (WY) you have a fisheries, and a big game side, funny how the big game side is the only side thats loosing the G&F money. The fisheries division profits millions of $$$. Not saying they shouldnt get paid, kudos to them for geting the money, I have many degrees could have made way more money than I did in a contract position, but chose that job because of the job. Its a great gig, thats why you can get better people with less pay, oh and by the way, the HP's here have high school degrees (not nocking a High school degree) so not exactly the cream of the crop. Its not a revenue problem thats B.S. I dare them to show us a number of any decrease in license sales, or any proof of less folks putting in for those licenses. The state poulation in the last ten years has almost doubled. Its a lie plain and simple, they just want more $$$, or are just planning more pay increases. And the trucks they replace when they get 75k miles on them. And its supposed to be that only on call LE guys can drive department trucks home. Now I see biologists, supervisors, and heck even the director of them gets to drive his green truck home and to work every day. Betcha that adds up to a few grand every month in just fuel.
No increases I dnt care if its for Res, or NR...

Let em go belly up, maybe its time to start over.

Amen to that.

Stig87
07-31-2012, 10:52 PM
Just curious, where did you find the salaries for game wardens?

NDHunter
07-31-2012, 11:00 PM
As long as the government is running the government, things are going to be $*@?#& up.

justinthedoc
08-01-2012, 01:17 PM
Used to be one for twenty years still have many a friend workin there. I could tell you lots more but dont need anyone loosing there job. Also dont need anyone knowing;) who I am, and being there state employees its public knowledge if you want to call the state guys in cheyenne, and if there is a warden vacancy you can find the starting salary on the state hiring page. I remember back in the day when they hired off-duty sheriff officers to help with the load so they didnt have the have a warden salary the entire year. Sure less jobs, but atleast its less revenue, and most of those SO's were pretty good dudes, and had more authority than a game warden. (in Wy you can only write game violations nothing else)

justinthedoc
08-03-2012, 09:34 AM
Well its official boys and girls there going to ask me and you to pay higher license fee's to bail there arses out again. I am figuring a 15-20$ increase for residents, and probly 100$ for NR. Let your voices be heard guys, call cheyenne let them know were sick of bailing people out. Cover your own check book, I have to cover mine.

HuntWYODon
08-03-2012, 12:49 PM
Well its official boys and girls there going to ask me and you to pay higher license fee's to bail there arses out again. I am figuring a 15-20$ increase for residents, and probly 100$ for NR. Let your voices be heard guys, call cheyenne let them know were sick of bailing people out. Cover your own check book, I have to cover mine.

Yep . It will be 10 times the amout of what ever the resident fee is. That's the norm in most states. Lovely. The first time I ever hunted in Wy. in 1983 it was $100.00 for a deer tag and $100.00 for and antelope tag. You could buy an additional limited quota whitetail tag for $60.00. Had three tags every year for 5 yrs. . Oh the good old days... Are gone !

jenbickel
08-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Yep . It will be 10 times the amout of what ever the resident fee is. That's the norm in most states. Lovely. The first time I ever hunted in Wy. in 1983 it was $100.00 for a deer tag and $100.00 for and antelope tag. You could buy an additional limited quota whitetail tag for $60.00. Had three tags every year for 5 yrs. . Oh the good old days... Are gone !

Maybe you should move to wyoming then you could have those three tags again! :)

HuntWYODon
08-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Maybe you should move to wyoming then you could have those three tags again! :)

LOL ! I plan to in the next couple yrs. or whenever the dam housing market goes back up !
It would be nice to pay resident fees ! You would probably be buggin me all the time though...;)

hoshour
08-03-2012, 11:07 PM
Nonresident tag prices are getting ridiculous, especially in states where you have to buy the nonresident license first and it is nonrefundable when you're not drawn. On top of airfare or gas to drive from several states away and all the other costs of hunting, including taxidermy (hopefully) it is just getting too expensive for the non-addicted.

Or, look at MT where you must buy a deer and elk combo tag for nearly $900! Give me a break!

There is always a point at which price increases become counterproductive by driving off too many customers. The revenue loss is more than what you gain from the higher prices. Just simple economics. I think many Game and Fish departments are just about there.

HuntWYODon
08-04-2012, 04:29 AM
Nonresident tag prices are getting ridiculous, especially in states where you have to buy the nonresident license first and it is nonrefundable when you're not drawn. On top of airfare or gas to drive from several states away and all the other costs of hunting, including taxidermy (hopefully) it is just getting too expensive for the non-addicted.

Or, look at MT where you must buy a deer and elk combo tag for nearly $900! Give me a break!

There is always a point at which price increases become counterproductive by driving off too many customers. The revenue loss is more than what you gain from the higher prices. Just simple economics. I think many Game and Fish departments are just about there.

You hit it on the nose hoshour. This will be my 30th year of hunting Wy. and this was the fist time in 30 yrs. I didn't apply for draw in Ut. I applied for points only. Wasn't worth the poor hunting since 2008 where I always went. The price of fuel and tags,food,etc. I bet I saved at least $1200.00. The last two yrs. I've been saying to myself I think this will be the last year for out of state. Can't afford it anymore. I still hunt in Az. a lot and have some good friends there I hunt with. Cheaper on fuel too. Az. and Nv. are two states that make you buy a license even to apply for pts.. Extorsion comes to mind...Montana ? Rip off.

BKC
08-04-2012, 10:14 AM
I agree with you guys on Montana. I have a good friend who would like me to come to Montana and hunt but the buying of a license just to get in the draw is too screwey for me. It might make sense for some but not for me. I think most G & F are pricing out of state tags right to the point that the revenue works out in their favor. Raise the tag costs and a lot fewer hunters apply or buy tags and their revenue goes the other way. It happens with everything you buy, it is about what the market will bear.I'm lucky I live in Colorado where instate fees are more than fair and we have just about anything you want to hunt. I have hunted in other states but it is hard to beat the deal I get here.

Triple BB
08-08-2013, 11:40 PM
$66k, big whoop. The per capita income in the state is in the low 50's. You can go drive a truck in the oil field with nothing more than a high school diploma for $60 - $70k. Cleaning up the Fed's mess with bears and wolves are some of the bigger expenses draining the G&F budget. The G&F can certainly cut some fat and they should, however license fee increases will happen and it'll be sooner than later.

Triple BB
08-08-2013, 11:49 PM
There is always a point at which price increases become counterproductive by driving off too many customers. The revenue loss is more than what you gain from the higher prices. Just simple economics. I think many Game and Fish departments are just about there.

Have you looked at the non resident draw odds in Wyoming lately? Demand for most antelope, deer and elk area's far exceeds supply. The way to bring it into equilibrium is charge more. That's if you're talking simple economics...

Ilovethewest
08-09-2013, 07:24 AM
I find it funny that people always cry the "cut the wages" chant anytime there is a money issue............unless they happen to be in that field. You never hear someone say "cut my wage" it is always "cut someones elses wage"..............just an observation over the years.

my wife faced a similar situation as a teacher in Wisconsin. many people were shouting for cuts in pay, even some people with govt jobs in different areas. They sang a different tune when their budgets and salaries were cut. and..........when several small businesss closed in our small town due to lack of sales, shortly after all these cuts, they cried fowl too.

the moral is people who have money, spend money. poor people don't spend money. cut wages so everyone is poor, and we all suffer.

mnhunter
08-09-2013, 07:36 AM
Wow.....a game warden makes more than I did as 2LT leading a recon PLT in AFG, and makes almost as much as I do now as a Major in the US Army?!?! I might have to consider a career move, probably pretty much the same risk patrolling during the first weekend of antelope gun season.

Ilovethewest
08-09-2013, 07:36 AM
but this is a state issue, and I am not a WY resident, so this is your guys fight. My only stake in this is non-resident tags fees. as a member of a family who has spent tens of thousands of dollars in tag fees in Wyo since the 50's, it is a shame that we contantly get hammered with high tag fees. There is a reason I do not hunt Montana.

as in most cases, some Middle Ground needs to be found that spreads out the pain and benefits all parties involved.

Have a good day everyone!!!!!!

Colorado Cowboy
08-09-2013, 08:14 AM
Wow.....a game warden makes more than I did as 2LT leading a recon PLT in AFG, and makes almost as much as I do now as a Major in the US Army?!?!

I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I saw this!!! Used to be the military (and for that matter government in general) made less than their civilian counterparts. When I was drafted in 1963 after I graduated from college, I was paid $78.00 a month, provided a roof over my head, food and uniforms! Great first full time job with a college degree!

Disclaimer......as a disabled vet, I am in no way disrespecting our military. Without them, we would be nothing. Just saying........

mnhunter
08-09-2013, 09:28 AM
No offense taken ;)

I actually love my choice of careers, even with all the crappy vacation it has sent me on over the last decade, I wouldn't have done anything different. I might have found a career for after I retire though.

xtreme
08-09-2013, 02:35 PM
I was in the $78.00 crowd a little before CC. I did get an extra $65.00 for jump status. There needs to be some changes made.

shootbrownelk
08-09-2013, 02:44 PM
I definitely don't vote for tripling resident fees.....

I'll second that one Jen. Our resident fees are high enough.

canvsbk
08-09-2013, 03:03 PM
This subject and resident preference points raged on for weeks this winter over on MM. It quickly evolved into simple name calling with little or no original suggestions for a fix. Lots of finger pointing though.

WapitiBob
08-09-2013, 04:18 PM
The fix is the end user pays more money. Comments of the Dept operating more efficiently, like a business, etc, etc, are nothing but white noise. They're a bureaucracy, that's how they operate, and it's not changing.

AT Hiker
08-12-2013, 07:56 AM
Another helpful fix would be to charge an access fee for non-hunters, you know the millions of non-hunters and non-fisherman that utilize the public spaces for free. Maybe the dreaded "tax increase" would help, or make it a legislative decision that everyone that hikes, camps, bird watches, etc has a conservation stamp. Hunters and Fisherman front the bill for ALL wildlife management, then we are turned around and sued by anti's and guess where the money comes from...wildlife management.

On the salary note, $66k starting is pretty steep. But it sounds like it is just a tad higher than the average wage in WY, so I have no problem with it. But they could offer early retirement and buyouts to get rid of some of the "upper management" that is likely duplicated throughout the state.

CoHiCntry
08-12-2013, 10:18 AM
Residents need to pony up and pay more. Even a minimal increase with the amount of resident licenses sold would make a big difference. Not just in Wyoming, but all states in my opinion should increase resident fee's and quit gouging non-residents. I don't have a problem with what the salaries are. If you want good qualified people you have to pay good wages.

Ilovethewest
08-12-2013, 10:41 AM
in Wisconsin, we have state park stickers that you must have to go into a state park with a vehicle whether your hunting, fishing, or hiking or whatever. Never been to Yellowstone, or any wyo state park, but something similar would help, and that would also bring in money from people other than hunters/fishers.

I know many of you resident Wyoming hunters will hate me.........but it does suck being a non-resident and paying huge license fees. Especially if your hunting Federal Land. Federal Land is paid with Federal Tax dollars, and I living in Wisconsin pay just as much as a Wyoming resident when it comes to Federal lands. So I would rather see an increase in Resident tag prices than another incease in non-resident.

But in general, I hate always sticking it to hunters and fisherman. I don't want to see ANY tag price increased.

Finding ways to get money from all the other people who use and enjoy the land and wildlife seems a more fair route. Havent been to Devils tower in decades.....but are their vehicle fees to go there? if not, there should be. Maybe certain "scenic roads" in the black hills or in the bighorns, tetons or ect. You would have to be creative, but simply gouging us non-resident hunters more and more does not seem fair to me. There are also trails in Wisconsin that you must have a "trail pass" to bike, hike, or walk on. Those passes cost money. I am sure something like that could be implemented to help the finances of the WGFD.

It is sad that us hunters always pay the price and the non-hunters simply whine and get their way.

Topgun 30-06
08-12-2013, 11:13 AM
Just a couple off the cuff comments:
First--- I have no idea where the salary information came from because the current salary range for a starting Warden up through a top supervisoy level with seniority ranges from $42,768 to $77,400. That's a far cry from the BS the OP is putting out about the average guy CLEARING $5,500 a month. With the college degree that's required just to be able to be in the mix for a job, that is not that much money in this day and age, especially one in LE dealing with persons who are armed out in the boonies, along with the other multiple duties their position requires!
Second---The NR fees amount to about 80% of the money taken in by the G&F on a yearly basis. When you look at the measily fees paid by residents and all the licenses that are available to them for a fraction of the NR fees, it is more than ridiculous! I'm not saying that the fees should be tripled, but in many cases they could be doubled and they wouldn't be out of line. A resident can buy every license available to them and shoot over a dozen animals a year for less than what one NR deer license costs! IMHO they need to pony up to help THEIR G&F Department that does a fantastic job with the money they take in to oversee the huge number of things that are mandated of them.
Third---A new way to increase funding of the Department is definitely needed, as was mentioned by others. It could be a fraction of a cent on fuel, a few cents tacked onto a motel room, a stamp required of anyone using state and federal land, rather than just hunters paying the freight, etc.

shootbrownelk
08-12-2013, 11:52 AM
Have you looked at the non resident draw odds in Wyoming lately? Demand for most antelope, deer and elk area's far exceeds supply. The way to bring it into equilibrium is charge more. That's if you're talking simple economics...

I think the way Wyoming G&F figures is, if one guy or group can't afford the tag fees there is always someone with deeper pockets who'll buy that tag offered, whatever the cost. Had a warden tell me once (years ago) that they like it that way. More money from fewer hunters (the special license fee). He said, what's their alternative? Hunting elk at home in Illinois? There are not enough tags to satisfy the demand, and never will be.

Topgun 30-06
08-12-2013, 12:12 PM
There has always been more demand than available decent tags, but that will end up running it's course one of these years like it already has in Idaho and Montana where they are now crying for hunters to buy tags that aren't being sold.

Colorado Cowboy
08-12-2013, 02:50 PM
While I am not defending the G & F pay to their staff, one thing to remember is that what they publish is the salary range is not the true dollars budgeted. In private industry where I was employed for 40 years in upper management(2 large multinational aerospace companies), the money shown annually on W2 forms is not the true amount. We used to figure at least 33 % additional for benefits, sometimes more (vacation, holidays, retirement, medical, etc). Being government I am sure it is much higher.

Topgun 30-06
08-12-2013, 03:14 PM
We're talking salary and normally, no matter what position you're talking about, there are fringe benefits that also figure into each person on the payroll like you mentioned. Here are stats right off the net and they aren't out of line with other states listed:

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of May 2011, the mean annual Fish and Game Warden Salary was $55,670, with Maryland offering the highest Game Warden pay at $69,410 (median annual). The lowest of the high paying states was Wyoming, coming in at $52,370 (median annual salary). The BLS indicates that Game and Fish Warden pay in some states can start at $27,090 per year. Those with additional education tend to earn more than Game Warden's who do not have degree's.

Game Warden Salary

Annual Median Salary

National Average
$55,670

Maryland
$69,410

Washington
$61,180

North Dakota
$54,440

Wyoming
$52,370

Texas
$52,980


Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics as of May 2011, http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333031.htm

Colorado Cowboy
08-12-2013, 04:09 PM
Just pointing out that salary alone is not how a department should be guaged on how it spends it's money. I don't have a position on Wyoming and it's pay practices, just pointing out that salaries are not the only thing we need to look at.

wyohunter1
08-14-2013, 09:23 AM
62686267
Here is a house owned by the Wyoming Game and Fish that one of our area game wardens gets to live in. Not sure if there is any expenses for the Warden or not.

Triple BB
08-14-2013, 08:57 PM
A couple things I was enlightened to regarding G&F housing, supposedly the IRS taxes them at the fair market rental value same as income. Second if they didn't offer housing in some of these dink towns around the state, you'd never get a warden to move there because no one wants to buy a house they couldn't sell later on...

DryFlyGuy
08-14-2013, 10:09 PM
A couple things I was enlightened to regarding G&F housing, supposedly the IRS taxes them at the fair market rental value same as income. Second if they didn't offer housing in some of these dink towns around the state, you'd never get a warden to move there because no one wants to buy a house they couldn't sell later on...

The house pictured above is in Cody, Wyoming. I don't want to misinterpret what your intent was, so I'll just ask. Are you implying that in addition to the base compensation and all other fringe, there would be an inability to staff these dink towns without providing a house?

trkytrack2
08-14-2013, 11:11 PM
How many think the gazillion dollar new WG&F building has anything to do with $$$$ shortfalls?
Lottery sales in Colorado are huge money makers. Ten percent (10%) of all state lottery sales go to the Colorado Parks and Wildlife.
The moron Wyoming legislature for years has shut their eyes to the fact that, every year, millions and millions of Wyoming dollars has been collected by the Colorado State Lottery's two leading sales outlets on the border of Colorado and Wyoming (Hwy 85) by refusing to allow a Lottery in Wyoming. That may change in the future and if they get their heads out of their butts, they could channel a portion of those Lottery sales to the WGF.

shootbrownelk
08-14-2013, 11:38 PM
How many think the gazillion dollar new WG&F building has anything to do with $$$$ shortfalls?
Lottery sales in Colorado are huge money makers. Ten percent (10%) of all state lottery sales go to the Colorado Parks and Wildlife.
The moron Wyoming legislature for years has shut their eyes to the fact that, every year, millions and millions of Wyoming dollars has been collected by the Colorado State Lottery's two leading sales outlets on the border of Colorado and Wyoming (Hwy 85) by refusing to allow a Lottery in Wyoming. That may change in the future and if they get their heads out of their butts, they could channel a portion of those Lottery sales to the WGF.

Getting the Wyoming (rancher) legislature to pull their heads out of their asses would take 10 gallons of WD40 and a tractor!

Topgun 30-06
08-15-2013, 08:41 AM
FYI the new building has nothing to do with the budget shortfall, as the Department went to the Legislature and the money to build that structure came out of a special appropriation from the General Fund, not their yearly budget. Also they only get about 6% of their funding through the GF, which is mostly dedicated money for certain mandated programs like the wolf and grizzly monitoring, and the rest is through license sales, Federal funds from taxes on hunting/fishing equipment, etc. I guess people that are bitching expect those Wardens to live in a shack! Each one has to maintain an office at their home, keep their state vehicle housed so it's useable in a minutes notice in emergencies, etc. It's not as glamorous a profession as most of you let on and when they'd like to be out hunting they're stuck doing enforcement work around the clock that time of the year. The Warden I know keeps his own horse at his own expense for use in the game biology part of his job so he can cover areas better and not have to use a quad, which a lot of ranchers don't even want on their property.

birdhunter
08-15-2013, 01:30 PM
Not every house a game warden lives in is that nice either. The houses around the NE part of the state are average or smaller. Some wardens also choose to live in their own house. I guess its asking to much to provide a house for some one that protects our hunting rights. You also have to remember that pretty much everyone that a warden encounters in the field is armed with a dangerous weapon. Two years ago, wardens in this part of the state made possibly the biggest poaching bust in the NATIONS history!!! I'm pretty sure not one of them received any type of bonus for that. I don't see why people think that they should receive a salary of 20k or less when professional athletes make in the millions for doing jack squat!!!

DryFlyGuy
08-15-2013, 09:41 PM
There are a lot of emotion based arguments here.

Does my company expect me to live in a shack? My company doesn't care. They pay me and I am responsible for my own housing.

So is providing housing now something that should be expected? Does that go for other public servants? How about private enterprise? It is expected for wardens? How about policemen, firemen, postal workers, teachers, non-profit mental health professions, dog catchers, on and on and on.

They have to work when they would rather be out hunting? Me too.

They didn't get a bonus for doing their job? Me either. I worked 293 hours last month and my salary stayed the same. There were 22 regular work days. At eight hours a day, that is 176 hours for the month. I did $4000 worth of redesign work on a project and saved a County $400k on construction costs. My salary still stayed the same.

Athlete's make a ton of money why? Because that is what the market is bearing. I understand that we may not value an athlete's contribution to the greater good just like 'animal activists' gristle at the thought of a profession that uses the term 'game' warden. I'd venture to guess that every game warden out there had a good understanding of the earning potential beforehand. Anybody who pursues that career path doesn't do so with dollar bills in their eyes.

They work in a field where almost every person is armed with a dangerous weapon. Well, my sister is a social worker who works in homes where she encounters convicted criminals that are bat-crap crazy with long histories of despicable violence. She goes to their houses when they are in crisis and she is armed with a DSM-IV book, notepad, and pencil What's your point? Wealth distribution? Take from these people over here whom I don't value and give to these folks over here because they chose a service-based profession that is publicly funded and tightly budgeted.

I thought the topic at hand was about another government agency publicly maneuvering to avoid living within their means. I shudder to think of the dire results stemming from the drastic measures they will be forced to take. Remember how bad that sequester stung? I would hate to see those dark days of inevitable disaster again.

Instead this discussion devolved into an argument by emotive language. If I wanted to be swayed by a fallacious argument in favor of expanding taxpayer funded programs, I wouldn't think to be on an Eastman's hunting forum. This simplification and leap to adverse consequences smacks of social engineering.

EBOLAVIRS
08-15-2013, 09:50 PM
Lol worrying about government employees making 100k a year is like worrying about a pinhole leak in your bucket when someone else is sucking water out the top with a 10" hose. The people who make all the money in government are your elected officials. Post up some of their houses errr should I say mansions. I love all this tea party rage at cops, firemen, teachers, etc. while fat cat politicians just sit back and laugh. My local representative who is a republican cashed in on millions in government rice subsidies last year alone, yet he wants me to worry about the cop down the street who bought a new diesel truck. No thanks, I am not so stupid to buy the rhetoric.

Ilovethewest
08-15-2013, 10:15 PM
both sides play the classwarfare game. and so many people buy into it. getting people to pick "sides" and "blame" someone else is the reason this country has the problems it has. Us folks in the middle get trampled on while the extremes on both sides run things. It is sad.

But I think I am done with this thread after this post. emotions are getting too high.

DryFlyGuy
08-15-2013, 10:27 PM
WY G&F: We are in financial crisis, we are seeking public input.

Minions: Let's start a lottery so hunting goes to highest bidder! The poor game wardens! Let's slash the salaries of the boots on the ground! Let's hose those darn out of staters, they can afford it! Let's make those residents pay more, a little bit from so many will surely be tolerated!

It seems to me that we are accepting the notion that: 1.there is indeed a true financial crisis 2.that it is so dire 3.the department is already so efficient 4.the experts within the department have exhausted all internal viable options and 5. without 'public input' (code speak for increased revenue), the inevitable outcome is that our quality of life will be diminished to an unacceptable level.

I think if the department is actually interested in public input, why not have an independent audit performed by a qualified entity and make bare the information to a comprehensive approach on improving the efficiency those services that are vital, growing those services that are solvent, trimming those services that are non-essential, and after evaluation/implementation of the audit recommendations; then determine if they are truly in crisis and beat the 'woe is me' drum.

It seems to me that there is, at least at some level, some shameless and disingenuous gamesmanship going on here. I do not doubt that they are having trouble balancing the checkbook, but who doesn't struggle with that?

DryFlyGuy
08-15-2013, 10:51 PM
Sorry for the rant. Read a little bit of the scriptures to hit the reset button.

I hope someone out there perforated a trophy antelope this evening while I was busy being a keyboard scholar! :)