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View Full Version : Elk and Cattle on BLM.



goatpoop
08-27-2012, 12:42 PM
While scouting for elk this month. I found an alfalfa field with public land right next to it. One day there was over 200 head of elk in that field. I hiked into this area and found out that there were a good amount of cattle on public land. I did not see a lot of elk sign in the area. I have not had any luck hunting or finding elk any on public with cattle, private seems to be almost the complete opposite. What is your hunting experience with cattle on public land? Do elk avoid water the cattle heavily use?

BKC
08-27-2012, 02:38 PM
It will be tougher this year. a lot of public land gets leased out to ranchers for summer pasture. On most years elk will tolerate cattle but with the drought all the cattle and elk seem to be going for the same grass that is in valleys, draws and next to creeks. Cows have no problem craping in water holes and creeks and elk aren't likely to use the same area if the water is tainted. A lot of crp grass in the low lands are being used by ranchers for cattle grazing due to the emergency relief the goverment granted because of the drought This has totally screwed up the deer movement because of the safe haven the deer had bedding in the tall grasses. No cover for deer cover and none for making stalks. It ought to get interesting.

tdub24
08-27-2012, 03:32 PM
In my experinces, elk have no problem tolerating cattle. Just this past weekend archery bull opened up and we were seeing one group of 60-80 elk throughout the hills along side cattle. We spooked cattle and elk out of the same draws. A few years back I even saw two cattle amongst a herd, I mean right in the heart of them following the elks every move. Soon enough, the ranchers should be rounding up their cattle and getting back to the ranch. Well at least here in NV I know they have deadlines on when the cattle have to be off BLM land, which I believe is the first part of October.

crumy
08-27-2012, 04:54 PM
I have not had much luck at finding elk with cattle. But having the cattle on BLM land irritates me. If they can free-range then the ranchers should allow hunting on 50% of their land.

tdub24
08-27-2012, 05:01 PM
If they can free-range then the ranchers should allow hunting on 50% of their land.

Agreed 100%, its funny though, some of the ranchers try to tell the public that where they are grazing on public land is there property and they put up no trespassing signs. Luckily with today's technology, you can get landowner maps put right on your GPS. Not a fan of cattle in the hills either.

crumy
08-27-2012, 05:19 PM
I have had that happen to me once. Rancher telling me it is his land. Turns out he was also an outfitter and had people with me. I had setup glassing this field and he came up on horses telling me I couldn't be there and he wouldn't call the gamewarden if I left. I had my gps and was well inside the BLM block. (Thanks to my gps as I walked past at least 4 private property signs on blm land.) I told him that luckily I had a satellite phone and would be happy to call. He just mumbled and rode off. Glad he didn't call the bluff on the phone.

MSUcat61
08-28-2012, 12:29 AM
I have not had much luck at finding elk with cattle. But having the cattle on BLM land irritates me. If they can free-range then the ranchers should allow hunting on 50% of their land.

BLM, Forest Service, State, etc. act just like any other land owner and establish contracts for the resources (grass, timber) on the land to interested parties (ranchers, logging companies, etc.). If you're so worried about it, you should probably purchase the grazing lease. I've never had trouble finding elk with cattle. The only issue I've run into is annual fall round ups in October interfering with the elk because of all the activity. And actually the last and biggest bull I shot, I spotted while on horseback, driving cattle; spotted the elk the day before the opener, went in the next day and shot a nice bull (was planning on going somewhere else too, but couldn't pass up a fairly sure thing).

ivorytip
08-28-2012, 07:09 PM
this topic has allways had it two sided facts. i use to believe cattle and elk dont use same areas but after this last two years i threw that theory out the back door. im finding most elk and biggest bulls right in the middle of the cattle. i guess over the years they learn where they are safe at. and as far as that blm with no trespassing sign go.... i just purchased that sd card for my gps and good god!!! i couldnt believ all the blm thats posted. im going to make the most of it come thursday:cool:

dying to kill
08-28-2012, 09:40 PM
Agreed 100%, its funny though, some of the ranchers try to tell the public that where they are grazing on public land is there property and they put up no trespassing signs. Luckily with today's technology, you can get landowner maps put right on your GPS. Not a fan of cattle in the hills either.

lol i hear ya guys but us ranchers have been hit hard with the drought, kinda need a break every were we can get it , i can only speak for oklahoma but the drought assistance programs and access to new grazing ground has really kept us in bussiness.

ivorytip
08-29-2012, 06:32 PM
very true dying to kill, there is allways more than one way to look at things. thanks for your post. we are all praying for that drought in the midwest comes to an end. its just sickning.

dying to kill
08-30-2012, 10:00 PM
thats no joke my grand dad is almost 80 and been farming and ranching his whole life and has never seen it this dry here. luckly weve been able to weather the storm so far, but i know others almost his age that have had to sell their whole herd theyve spent their life time building up , talk about sickning

wapiti66
08-30-2012, 11:15 PM
being a farmer myself, I'd much rather share the mountains with the cattle and ranchers than a group of tree-hugging hippies. beef taste too good not to let them utilize all that grass we can all share and enjoy. ranchers should also follow the rules and not try to claim it is private.

dying to kill
08-31-2012, 11:10 PM
thats no lie some land owners can be a bit more hard to get along with then others, i know some guys that will let any tom dick n hairy hunt on them n others that throw a fit if u get with in 20 yards of their fence. i love to hunt but ill let a hunter or two on me every now and then if they show common kindness and are respect full,that goes alot farther than catchin em out there n them sayin i didnt think u would mind!!! when i was younger several very kind land owners let me hunt on em, i feel the favor needs to be passed on. not every one hunting on private land should have to pull out the check book. but thats jus my 2cents

ivorytip
09-01-2012, 07:39 AM
i know aroudf here alot of private land gets closed to hunters due to the fact that these so called hunters are shooting cattle. id love to wittness this first hand. takes one idiot to mess things all up.

Ilovethewest
09-02-2012, 07:47 AM
i guess i dont have a problem with the grazing on public land issue. What really bothers me is the "extreme" ends of both sides of the issue. I too have seen no hunting signs on public lands, and roads closed with no tresspassing on roads open to public use........and I have sure seen my fair share of "slob hunters"....especially in Wisconsin.......shooting game on private lands, leaving junk around, gates open............but i do think most people are reasonable people, rancher and hunter alike. I think that b/c of a few radicals, both rancher and hunter, there seems to be an atmosphere of distrust from both sides. Long term, I think this is detrimental to all parties involved. How do you get the radical ranchers to calm down and the slob hunters to grow up???? Not sure the answer to that, but if we can somehow get by those folks, I think we would have a much better relationship b/w rancher and hunter. There certainly would be less animosity shown toward each side.

xtreme
09-02-2012, 11:43 AM
I raise seedstock registered Beefmaster cattle on private property with no chance to graze public land. When the cattle graze through my area there are no elk, no deer, and no bear left. There is no food left, absolutely no game left, game is displaced. Cattle are allowed to rub on my Newell Post breaking them. When I complained, I was informed, it is my responsibility to fence the cattle out. I am not going to fence my place, a yard of 1 acre. The cattle are allowed to go through the entire subdivision wrecking anything in their path. These are 1800 type laws not fit for 2012.
On a recent visit to the high country, one mile above my house there was lush forest, animals, deer, antelope, and elk that I could watch. There were cattle nearby on private property but the gates were open and soon everything will change. I want the cattle off public land as well as the treehuggers.

graybird
09-02-2012, 09:50 PM
Last year, I watched a rancher for 4 consecutive evenings drive thru a closed road to the backside of an area I was hunting by walking into the area. They would show up at about 3:00 in the evening and leave at dark. Just so happened, I caught them wearing orange one evening. Sure did upset me as I walked the 3+ miles into the hunting area when they misused their grazing rights to go hunting. We spoke with the Forest Service asking for our key to the closed road because it was obvious he wasn't using the access properly. Even spoke with the game warden, which he said he would take care of it. I guess we'll see later this year if our complaining did any good.

trkytrack2
09-03-2012, 04:29 AM
It will be tougher this year. a lot of public land gets leased out to ranchers for summer pasture. On most years elk will tolerate cattle but with the drought all the cattle and elk seem to be going for the same grass that is in valleys, draws and next to creeks. Cows have no problem craping in water holes and creeks and elk aren't likely to use the same area if the water is tainted. A lot of crp grass in the low lands are being used by ranchers for cattle grazing due to the emergency relief the goverment granted because of the drought This has totally screwed up the deer movement because of the safe haven the deer had bedding in the tall grasses. No cover for deer cover and none for making stalks. It ought to get interesting.

Elk avoid water tainted by cattle? I've watched bull elk come into a small pond, where just 45 minutes before 20 head of cattle had watered and crapped and pissed in the pond, and the bull would piss in it, roll around in it and then drink the water. I've also watched bull elk piss in a fresh elk wallow, roll around in it and then drink the water.

dying to kill
09-04-2012, 09:43 PM
i guess i dont have a problem with the grazing on public land issue. What really bothers me is the "extreme" ends of both sides of the issue. I too have seen no hunting signs on public lands, and roads closed with no tresspassing on roads open to public use........and I have sure seen my fair share of "slob hunters"....especially in Wisconsin.......shooting game on private lands, leaving junk around, gates open............but i do think most people are reasonable people, rancher and hunter alike. I think that b/c of a few radicals, both rancher and hunter, there seems to be an atmosphere of distrust from both sides. Long term, I think this is detrimental to all parties involved. How do you get the radical ranchers to calm down and the slob hunters to grow up???? Not sure the answer to that, but if we can somehow get by those folks, I think we would have a much better relationship b/w rancher and hunter. There certainly would be less animosity shown toward each side.

i agree everyone work together to make every one have a better experience

Grizbacker
09-05-2012, 07:41 PM
We have lots of issues with a certain landowners here in MT. It is not unusual to see state or blm land "posted" and the rancher thinking they own it because the lease the grazing rights. There are also some that think because their land blocks of all the easy access to public land that they therefore own the public land. When someone is willing to put in the work and hike hard to access it they act as if you are trespassing.

Another pet peeve of mine. Ranchers who accept federal or state subsidies yet dont let people hunt. If you are going to accept public tax dollars, then you should be required to open up your land to the public for recreation. Huge scam if you ask me and wish it could be addressed legislatively although it never will due to the money the landowners throw at the politicians.

ivorytip
09-05-2012, 09:30 PM
also have a problem with outfitters posting private, had a head to head run in with that 2 days ago, he actualy told me to leave. i pulled out my trusty gps and showed him i thought i was on blm... as i was. then i left, no reason to argue after proving a point. makes me ill. and ro go along with griz backer... idaho does an acsess yes program where fish and game pays land owners with our donated money to let us hunt it. then prop owners allways say... i am sorry but we only let friends and family hunt. not cool. also, there is a ton of land that land locks blm and stae land, there should be acsess allowed to these free lands through private if land locked.