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View Full Version : Holy crap wyoming!!



NDHunter
09-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Anyone else see these new proposed license fees for Wyoming? Quite a few tags are going up between 30-50%. $1,330 for a special elk tag?!?!?! How bout the $7,290 for the grizzly tag... Is that in case they get de-listed???? Man that state is getting expensive.


http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/WGFD/pdfs/WGFDFUNDING_FEECHART0002941.pdf

Manualman
09-12-2012, 10:00 PM
I like that they already list Grizzly tags for $6000 and they want to raise them. How much will they be when you can actualy hunt them.

MOHunter
09-12-2012, 11:01 PM
Wow, that's unreal. With all the negative press on their deer herd you can bet I won't be paying $520 for a tag. And I've been choosing them over MT for elk mainly due to the tag price. They may just price me out of the state altogether.

Muleys 24/7
09-12-2012, 11:36 PM
Some of those prices are a pretty big jump! After I burn my points/money invested, I'm not sure if I'll start building them again?

Whisky
09-13-2012, 08:29 AM
Ouch!!!!!!

Fink
09-13-2012, 01:11 PM
Wow, that ought to improve the odds on the special draw...

Murdy
09-13-2012, 02:00 PM
Wow, that ought to improve the odds on the special draw...

Probably will improve the odds on the general draw too.

I started buying pps in Wyoming last year, choosing to start building in Wyoming over Montana largely due to price of the tags . . . . Oh well.

Whisky
09-13-2012, 02:16 PM
Probably will improve the odds on the general draw too.

I started buying pps in Wyoming last year, choosing to start building in Wyoming over Montana largely due to price of the tags . . . . Oh well.

I as well.

30Hart
09-13-2012, 02:25 PM
Crazy, Moose and Sheep tags will be $5000 apiece before I draw and I already have 12 PPs! Odds will defintely improve as this will start to price the average hunter out of the equation like it did in Montana. The rich won't care...really hurts the average Joe.

JNDEER
09-13-2012, 03:10 PM
Probably will improve the odds on the general draw too.

I started buying pps in Wyoming last year, choosing to start building in Wyoming over Montana largely due to price of the tags . . . . Oh well.


I as well.

x3.

Does anyone know when they may vote on this or what the talk is to wether or not this will happen??

Colorado Cowboy
09-13-2012, 05:13 PM
I will be sending a letter to the Governor, Wyoming Wildlife magazine and the head of G & F. If this passes for 2014, I'll be using all my points next year and finding a different place to hunt. This is absolutely assinine!

I just went to the Wyoming G & F website and found the article. It's under "News" and if you read it carefully. you'll find a place to comment. I did...and they probably won't like what I had to say!

sigpros
09-13-2012, 07:21 PM
Here is what I left in the comment section

After reading the proposed fees increases for big game, I have a few comments to make. First i will be coming out in October to hunt some cow elk. I planned this hunt last minute and hope to have a good time. I chose to come to wyoming because I have been building points for antelope and wanted to come out and check out the land before I do an antelope hunt. I bought the tag and will be buying supplies and gas in your state. I also rented a cabin to stay in. So there will be about $2000 spent in your state on this trip. Next year I will burn my antelope points to beat the increase. And I will not be coming back. I quit hunting colorado over this same kind of stuff. Maybe you should vote in a sales tax to help fund your department like we do in Missouri. Sure glad I didn't buy those mule deer and elk points yet! Montana isn't that much further of a drive.

Thank you for your time

Chris

Colorado Cowboy
09-13-2012, 08:35 PM
Just did a little number crunching....for NR's. Antelope & Elk go up 37% & 30% respectively. Deer a whopping 61%!!!! These are for regular permits, not specials. $520 for a deer tag is a bit much. I think I'll start looking in Canada, not much more to drive for me. Last year I spent almost $10,000 for my guided elk hunt, motels, meals, guide tips, fuel and incidentals. They sure as hell need to find a way to get some of the tree huggers and wolf lovers to pony up some bucks to help run the G & F Dept.

Ilovethewest
09-13-2012, 09:38 PM
I love wyoming b/c it can still be hunted by the average joe. Its a state that if you work hard and do your research, you can have quality hunts without paying a ton. Its sad that average joes always get the shaft. But.....its always good to look at the silver lining. You could reduce the number of overall hunters. So lets say a unit now take 5 PP's to draw for an elk. 5 PP's x 50.00 is 250. Add that to the 575 of the current price, and your at 825. If the elk tag is at 750......and b/c of less hunters, you only need 2 PP's......your still at 850.

So that would be the bright side. It would be hard to pay the 520 though for a "marginal" type unit, like Region C where I am hunting this year. But maybe that would also reduce the number of hunters in a Region C..................so you never know. In the end, it may have some benefits.

Muleys 24/7
09-13-2012, 10:11 PM
If the tag prices go way up, I would like to see the price of the points go down......they should make it simalar to colorado. If alot less hunters put in they will easily make up the differance in the higher priced tags. The bottom line is outa-state hunting is expensive no matter where you go these days, that's just the way it is.

Colorado Cowboy
09-14-2012, 08:44 AM
If the tag prices go way up, I would like to see the price of the points go down......they should make it simalar to colorado.

The article said the price for NR points would remain as they are...no increase (or decrease for that matter).

Murdy
09-14-2012, 09:32 AM
I'll start looking in Canada, not much more to drive for me.
Good idea, CC, and for those of us in the upper midwest, there's probably good hunting in Canada that closer.

At least Montana has the decency to give you a break on a combo Elk/Deer tag.

Doe Nob
09-14-2012, 10:31 AM
Ugh, lets all rape the non-residents some more, why not they have no say in the matter.

$520 for a deer tag is a lot, you better have 180 inch deer behind every tree to make it worth peoples while.

IMO all this does is make the better units harder and harder to draw and the marginal units easier.

Fish
09-14-2012, 10:41 AM
WOW, I guess I got a deal on that special antelope tag I drew this year. I hope I kill a big one because I probably won't be able to afford WY tags after I retire in a year or two. MT is none to cheap either. I guess I'll have to hunt here in WA and hope to draw a good tag, pretty sad. With zero points and the tag increase, I have to ask myself if buying points in WY is worth it at age 62.
I'm glad I got to hunt WY a bunch of times. Made my first hunt out there in 1977. Drove out there from up state NY in a beater 1960's chevy pu. Good memories.

Whisky
09-14-2012, 10:53 AM
Good idea, CC, and for those of us in the upper midwest, there's probably good hunting in Canada that closer.

g.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a guide required to hunt big game in Canada? I'm pretty sure that's the case.. That rules out Canada for me with the exception of a couple "bucket list" hunts I want to do in my lifetime. Guided hunts in Canada certainly aren't any cheaper than free lance hunting in Wyoming or Montana.

Murdy
09-14-2012, 11:29 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a guide required to hunt big game in Canada? I'm pretty sure that's the case.. That rules out Canada for me with the exception of a couple "bucket list" hunts I want to do in my lifetime. Guided hunts in Canada certainly aren't any cheaper than free lance hunting in Wyoming or Montana.

I think I've heard that is the case in Canada, now that you mention it. Not sure if it is every province though.

Colorado Cowboy
09-14-2012, 11:53 AM
I spent close to 10K on a guided wilderness hunt in Wy last year. I can afford to do one of these every couple of years even tho I'm retired. If I am going to spend the bucks, then all options are on the table. I really don't have to spend my $$$ in Wyoming, even tho I've hunted there for 30+ years and love the place!!! It's a matter of principle and will be telling the Wyoming folks I write to that very same thing.

Pretty sad situation.

justinthedoc
09-14-2012, 02:50 PM
Told everyone two months ago this was happening, to bad no one thinks like me. They are over payed for what this organization does, they have bachelors degrees not master or doctorate. I could go out and teach a high schooler what they do and they would do it for half the pay. Re-donkulous, when i left the wildlife division supervisor were making 120k a year plus state benefits (which are crazy). ITs a shame they cant get there Chit together and really manage the wildlife. Seperate the seasons. do a bow, muzzle loader, and rifle season. Sell more tags its a simple process, bow hunter arent as succesfull, muzzleloaders are close to rifle, and then let people throw lead. Stand up for yourselves or pretty soon it going to be 2 grand for a elk tag here.

Colorado Cowboy
09-14-2012, 04:03 PM
Yep I remember your post, but pretty hard for NR's to see the details of the budget, let alone be aware of changes like these. Usually I look atthe website for hunting info. We need to really watch what is happening because of the effect it has on our hunting!

Fink
09-14-2012, 04:15 PM
Seperate the seasons. do a bow, muzzle loader, and rifle season. Sell more tags its a simple process, bow hunter arent as succesfull, muzzleloaders are close to rifle, and then let people throw lead. Stand up for yourselves or pretty soon it going to be 2 grand for a elk tag here.

I completely agree with splitting the seasons.. I'm looking at a type 9 tag in WY, because I really only want to hunt the rut with archery equipment. Even if I drew a regular tag, I'd probably only come during September. Logistically, it's nearly impossible for me to come back out for the gun season. WY could easily sell my tag again.

Ilovethewest
09-14-2012, 04:44 PM
i have much of the same sentiments that you guys do. Whay dont they have seperate seasons / tags for archery / muzzle / gun? Has anyone in the WGFD even answer that question?

Its nice to say we need to stand up to this, but how exactly do you do that? How do I living in Wisconsin, living a pretty middle class life with a wife for a teacher (not exactly a big dollar career) fight regulations in Wyoming? besides simply not hunting there, which is uncool b/c life is way too short to miss a season. Unless the Outfitters and Ranchers somehow get together on this and speak out against it............how will any change occur? And why would Ranchers and Outfitter care what non-residents pay?

The only bright side is that the more marginal units will become better due to less pressure. The good units will get far worse........everyone will apply for the good units b/c if your paying 750 bucks plus PP dollars for an elk tag, your not going to waste a 1000 bucks on a crappy unit. I will have 3 PP's this year. if a tag is going to cost me 750 in 2014...........I wont be wasting my PP's on a marginal unit. So I do think you may create an enviorment in which there is better hunting as a whole in Wyoming. Marginal areas will become better as will "bad" areas, and the good spots will be darn near impossible to draw. and you will also see less hunters as a whole.........not a bad thing I guess.

But I dont think I will be spending 375 for a goat.......no matter where I am hunting! I will simply hunt a cheaper state or simply enjoy seeing them and shoot them with the Camera. Aint spending 400 bucks on a goat. ever.

justinthedoc
09-14-2012, 04:55 PM
Agree with you totally about the goat thing. Thats way to dang much for a antelope, if they were better quality sure, but the average goat anymore is 65in. No way is it worth it. But people are going to pay it. All this is going to do is line there pockets, and take away from those people that cant afford it. Simple to say the rich getting richer type of crap. All its going to do is keep going up, mark my words in two-four years this is going to happen again. I used to pay like 24 bucks when I started hunting elk, next year its going to be 75.00. I know its nothing like the NR price, but the differance is still there. They can cut programs that arent needed, they can find the cuts they need, they just dont want to because they know we will pay it. I hated most of the political crap when I worked there, after this, I really dis-like them and I will jack with every RED shirt I see from now on.

Conrad8899
09-14-2012, 07:03 PM
My brothers and I. Just started building points in Wyoming. Two elk and 2 deer. We have never hunted Wyoming. But we have talked about dumping our points. We have hunted Colorado sinces 2009. What I dont under stand is? Why is it so expensive to hunt in the west. ANY WERE. Is it that the fish and game is over paid? Need new 4wd every other year? Cant budget there money? I live in NW Pa. A non resident can bye a general lisence for around $100.00. This would give U one whitetail buck. One spring turkey,one fall. And small game. Archery stamp non res around 30.00. A doe tag for around 30.00. And just about any other state in the east. Why such a price difference. As long as I am willing to pay. And every other non resident is. Than it wont end.... sorry for the long rant...

NDHunter
09-14-2012, 08:34 PM
I hate to say it but the fact is when it comes to the price of tags, as long as every tag is sold, I don't think state's really care what they are charging non-residents. According to the Wyoming game and fish website, they've got about 40,000 non-residents with elk points and roughly 30,000 people each with antelope and deer points. People are lining up a long ways from the door to have the chance to hunt in Wyoming. And while the guys that have to save all year to do one hunt out in WY or any other state might get priced out of a hunt, there is easily someone else who will pay the higher tag fee. I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying.

I think these high tag fees could definitely backfire though. Using the numbers that I stated above, the state gets about $4 million just from those preference points. And that doesn't even include sheep and moose. Anyways, with the increased tag fees, maybe the state will generate an extra million in tag fees. But then maybe a TON of people quit buying points and they lose $2 million in preference point fees. I'm sure these numbers are way off and I'm just making them up but I definitely think that they might lose more revenue from the loss of people buying points versus extra revenue from the higher tag fees.

Someone from Wyoming should give their thoughts. If they dare!

Ilovethewest
09-14-2012, 08:52 PM
Just some perspective.............its not just a "western" thing. I live in Wisconsin..........a gun tag is 25.00. A bow tag is 25.00. And you get some free doe tags too (which I dont use b/c we shoot way way too many deer in this state....i HATE the free doe tag BS).......but NR's pay like 150.....175 for a gun tag. Same price for Bow I think. But Iowa..................its like 400 or 450 for a deer tag. Illinois is between 300-400. Its insane.

I wont get political.............but it does seem like the rich get richer and poor get poorer............no matter who is in office from either party. I will keep going out west hunting until I am wheel chair bound or in my coffin.........and if I can mdo it, I will still go in a wheel chair! I will save and work extra and do anything needed outside of robbing a bank to pay for my 100% DIY hunts. But it is sad that a avg joe middle class guy like me constantly has more road blocks thrown in front of him. Everything gets harder and harder. All I want to do is to pass on the traditions my grandfather passed to me...........mainly hunting and fishing. And every year its harder to do so. Thats the tragedy.............will my son or grandson someday experience anything like i do? And I dont experinece anything close to what my dad did and nothing like what my grandfather did. That does NOT bode well for the future of hunting. Its a sad and scary road we travel.

I just keep hoping to find the silver lining in this, and thats the marginal units getting better. Thats my hope at least...........

Musket Man
09-14-2012, 09:34 PM
We keep going to cheaper states but pretty soon they will all be expensive and then we will either have to pay or stay home. They have found the limit of what hunters will pay but they dont seem to be listening or care. Idaho has lost money since raising their prices. Idaho general tags are pretty much OTC since the price increase and montana aint far behind. I believe oregon did about the same thing? Wyoming should really look at how its working out for other states and take note.

dhershberger
09-14-2012, 11:07 PM
This is why I only hunt in New Mexico! Out of state hunting fees and costs are ridiculous! Stick with your own state and do a lot of scouting and you will take some good trophies. If out of state hunting wasn't so ridiculously expensive, I'd do it to.

Murdy
09-14-2012, 11:16 PM
Just some perspective.............its not just a "western" thing. I live in Wisconsin..........a gun tag is 25.00. A bow tag is 25.00. And you get some free doe tags too (which I dont use b/c we shoot way way too many deer in this state....i HATE the free doe tag BS).......but NR's pay like 150.....175 for a gun tag. Same price for Bow I think. But Iowa..................its like 400 or 450 for a deer tag. Illinois is between 300-400. Its insane.

I'm a former Wisconsinite, now living in Illinois. We lead the nation in gouging NR's for white tail tags -- just ove $400, I believe (Iowa charges a little more, but at least they limit the tags to a reasonable number). I think Wisconsin is generous,with the $170 tags -- plus the new program where if you didn't buy a tag in the last 10 years, its half price,
I just think, we're all Americans. Why do we gouge the piss out of each other? My state is amng the worst, so I'm not pointing fingers. But, I just think hunting in America should be accessible to Americans.
s

Muleys 24/7
09-14-2012, 11:18 PM
Stick with your own state and do a lot of scouting and you will take some good trophies.

Hey, you must not have hunted southern CA:) Lol

trkytrack2
09-15-2012, 12:31 AM
Hunt a cheaper western state? When Wyoming raises it's prices, all the other western states will follow suit. You might get away hunting somewhere else for one year but it won't last. They'll all raise their prices.....trust me!

MOHunter
09-15-2012, 07:34 AM
You guys who are not happy, be sure to tell the G&F on their website. They actually ask for our input so let's at least give them the suggestions we think would be better. http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1000952.aspx

Colorado Cowboy
09-15-2012, 08:05 AM
This is why I only hunt in New Mexico! Out of state hunting fees and costs are ridiculous! Stick with your own state and do a lot of scouting and you will take some good trophies. If out of state hunting wasn't so ridiculously expensive, I'd do it to.

The only problem with this is that here in Colorado the really great areas take mega points to draw. It took me 12 years to get enough points to draw my antelope unit I'm hunting this year. Some of the elk units need 20+ points! If the points needed never changed, at best you could only draw a unit like this a few time in your life!!!

Ilovethewest
09-15-2012, 09:17 AM
I submitted my ideas to the WGFD. Hope they at least read my thoughts.

sigpros
09-15-2012, 03:58 PM
Africa every 3 years might be my game plan. Im about to give up on big game hunting and stick to predator calling.

dhershberger
09-15-2012, 04:15 PM
The only problem with this is that here in Colorado the really great areas take mega points to draw. It took me 12 years to get enough points to draw my antelope unit I'm hunting this year. Some of the elk units need 20+ points! If the points needed never changed, at best you could only draw a unit like this a few time in your life!!!

Yeah well you can have a lot of fun hunting OTC units in Colorado. You may not shoot those big trophy bucks and bulls every year but with hard work I'm sure you could take respectable animals. A lot of hunting is enjoying God's creation and spending time with friends and family. I'm so glad that NM doesn't have a points system.

Edelweiss
10-10-2012, 03:04 PM
Ugh, lets all rape the non-residents some more, why not they have no say in the matter.

$520 for a deer tag is a lot, you better have 180 inch deer behind every tree to make it worth peoples while.

IMO all this does is make the better units harder and harder to draw and the marginal units easier.



Residents don't have much say in it either. It's up to legislature, which means that you have to vote for the guy that votes against it.

The state doesn't want to pay G&F anything, they want them to be sefl sufficient. So someone is going to have to foot that bill.

Eberle
10-10-2012, 09:15 PM
This is what I wrote WG&F

To whom it may concern: I've hunted Wyoming multiple times over the last 12 years. I've got good memories. The proposed tag increase will be the end of hunting Wyoming for me should it pass! I've got maximum points for elk, mule deer & antelope. Should this pass I'll exhaust my points in 2013 & say farewell to Wyoming. I think the NR tags are two high as it is right now. Most of the land I hunt is Federal property that every US citizen pays taxes on! I think it is a violation of my constituional right for me to pay a NR price for a tag anyway. The price increase is the last straw for me. If Teddy Roosevelt was hear he would be ashamed you guys! You need to do some serious soul-searching!

Sincerely, Bryan Eberle

CoHiCntry
10-11-2012, 10:29 AM
This is why I only hunt in New Mexico! Out of state hunting fees and costs are ridiculous! Stick with your own state and do a lot of scouting and you will take some good trophies. If out of state hunting wasn't so ridiculously expensive, I'd do it to.

I think your on the right track here... I've been applying for several states for a few years but the list of applications get's fewer and fewer every year. With this tag increase in Wyoming I may drop them too or at least burn the points I have and never return. I already dropped my sheep and moose points in Wyoming after the last increase.

I'm a Colorado resident so it's a little easier for me. I shot a 170's bighorn sheep last year, a 79" antelope with my bow this year, and just got back from a successful moose hunt where I was blessed with a 50" bull. So I'm starting to ask myself, why spend ridiculous amounts of money to hunt other states, when, if I put in the time researching and scouting right here in my own backyard (so to speak) I can be rewarded with great animals every year? I'm definitely not opposed to filling the freezer with a cow or doe either! Someone mentioned how many points some of the top units take in Colorado. This is definitely true but there's good hunting in other units too. My 79" antelope for example was taken with a second choice archery tag.

I feel for those of you who don't live in a western state but love to hunt the west. Not sure the answer for you? Start embracing turkey and whitetail I guess? No good answer...

Whisky
10-11-2012, 11:43 AM
Most of you guys are pretty lucky in the fact you live in states where you can hunt them fine critters every year. Here in ND our antelope season is closed, our elk, moose and bighorn tags are once in a lifetime and impossible to draw, and our mule deer herd is suffering big time (and whitetail). Since bitten with the "western bug", sitting in a tree stand waiting for a good whitetail to walk by doesn't seem as exciting as it once was. And any land worth a hoot for that is very tough to come by these days (which is one of the reasons why you guys in Western states are seeing an increase in hunters on your fine public land). As more and more fine hunting land and habitat gets chewed up for farming all across the US, and the pay to play mentality spreads, and the greed, more and more people will look into the western public land hunts IMO.

It sucks all around, and if I want to play, I'm gonna have to pay unfortunately.

Whisky
10-11-2012, 11:47 AM
And when I say pay, I'm referring to tags and their increase in price, not lining the pockets of landowners with access fees, or guides....I'll stick to public land. If the 62" antelope or the 150" mule deer is the best I can do there, that's just fine with me.

Ilovethewest
10-11-2012, 01:27 PM
well NONE of you can complain until you come to Wisconsin to hunt. It is the essence of a rich mans game. Every person with their own little piece of land......food plots everywhere. Public land beeming with people. I do well enough of of sheer hard work and determination on public lands...........but its a tough haul. And you have to seriously downgrade your idewa of "trophy" unless you own land. For all that ails the western hunter, its 100% worse for us easterners. Unless your a big money guy, hunting is tough. So to me, the West is almost heaven like. High pressured areas in Wyoming are like desolate wasteland for me. Its nothing to see 20-30 guys on a 400 acre public chunk during gun season. Thats not even considered "high pressure" for WI.

This is disappointing......the bad part is, you will see the fringe western states (dakotas,nebraska) get even more pressure. Eventually people will just pay the fees.......but whats next? 750 for a deer tag? 1200 for elk??

Wyohunter
10-11-2012, 05:58 PM
Geez I hope Wyoming never ends up like wisconsin. Personally I don't care if I had to pay the same as nonresidents it's well worth it for the experience here. I think Wyoming is one of the cheaper states to hunt in right now anyway.

Ilovethewest
10-11-2012, 06:48 PM
i am not joking either. about 4 years back, I hunted a public land of about 450 acres. I showed up 1.5 years before shooting hrs, and there was probably 20 trucks parked there. On a 4k acre state park, of which about 3000 acres are hunteable, there was 40-50 trucks opening morning. In some places where there are designated parking areas, they are so full you cant even park.

We have far less public land, and have had 600K gun hunters...........Wyoming has usually what? 80,000?

so yes..........to me, Wyoming is Heaven on earth. Unless you own land in Wisconsin, its kind crazy. Thats why I bowhunt. And I bowhunt the deepest nastiest thickest areas as far from any road as I can. Its the only way I ever seen any deer at all. Then I know guys who own land, and there are deer everywhere. And if its isnt a 150" buck, its small.

Yep............Wisconsin is the epitamy of Rich Mans Hunting. Wyoming is where my heart is. Hunt harder and smarter and you can have success!!!!!

Edelweiss
10-12-2012, 05:13 AM
55% of Wyomingites hunt or fish, not sure how those numbers break out hunters versus fishers. That'a bout 250,000 people total.

Total tags sold matter not total tags applied for. So they can charge whatever they want because there are enough people to pay it. Wyoming is not just a big deal in the USA scheme of hunting, Wyoming has been at the forfront of International big game hunting since the 1960s.

Even the Shah of Iran and a whole host of other big time hunters from the 1950's and 1960's have hunted in Wyoming a lot.

They are one of the biggest names in hunting Globally. And they know they can charge what they want.

I hope I am always able to afford to hunt in my home state, I wish I was a resident now as it looks like we are probably moving back there. I'll have to wait a year out, and do some applications for ewe bighorn, doe and cow elk tags for that first year. Might do the bison tag application as a non-resident. As $2500 for a bull is cheaper than $5000 for a bull in South Dakota.

Fink
10-12-2012, 07:40 AM
I keep coming back to this thread, and can't help but look at the issue through a different lense. While, yes, these states should be able to run far more effeciently than they do, that will never change. One of the issues with Government agencies is that if they don't spent all of this years budget, and ask for more, it'll get cut, cause someone else is ready in line to take the 'surplus'

The real issue at hand is that the Western game animals are a finite resource. I'm a pretty big supply and demand guy, so it's hard for me to agrue against a tag increase when there was over 40,000 people building points or applying for elk tags in Wyoming. 40,000 people applying for a very limited number of tags. And thats just the non residents!

I don't want to pay for a $1,300 elk tag, just like nobody else does, but it seems with the demand being that high, the state is almost doing themselves a disservice to not jack the tag prices up. As a non resident, I'm just glad the tag price isn't $2k (yet...)

Doe Nob
10-12-2012, 10:10 AM
Idaho and MT have found the supply/demand equilibrium, and its not that far off from where WY will be if these price increases get approved, I don't think they are leaving a ton on the table.

I apply for the NM bighorn tag, its $3200 for a non-res, but I figure finding a way to pay off that credit card bill is lucky problem to have to solve.

VTBwana
10-12-2012, 10:35 AM
My crew has been hunting elk in NW WY for the last 6+ years...looks like we will be going to CO soon. If this passes, we are dumping points and doing a last hunt in 2013 and bugging out to Colorado. Bonus, no wolves or griz in CO. We backpack in far enough to get to good bulls in CO as well as WY, I can get into 330+ bull OTC Archery in the Flat Tops of CO. Too bad for WY if they do it. They will really be screwing all the small businesses there. I left a comment on their website too.

Ilovethewest
10-12-2012, 03:27 PM
To me the bigger picture is just budgets in general. As they continue to be penny pinched, this will happen in many areas of life, not just in tag fees.

I get the supply and demand thing, but is it ethical to do so. Just b/c something is legal to do, or it works financially, it doesnt make it the RIGHT thing to do. And there are long term consequences. A shrinking hunting population that is slowly turning into a rich mans game, does not bode well for the future of hunting in general. Having a high number of hunters nationwide gives us political clout, which keep the anti's at bay. reduce our numbers too much, and so goes our political clout, and the anti's gain.

So once again, just b/c you CAN do something doesnt mean you SHOULD do something. Doing what is RIGHT trumps all. Is this "right" to perpetually gouge the little guy???? You make that call.

I will just keep hunting until they make it unaffordable, then I will have to quit. What else can a guy do?

ivorytip
10-12-2012, 04:22 PM
doe nob said it right. but more people that want to hunt here the higher it gets. to be honest.... and no ofesne to any out of staters, but when i drive in to the bas of a trail head to find nothing but out of state trucks parked there it kinda is a bummer. flattered that they enjoy idaho so much but bummed that they found a good spot. and if youve ever hunted out of state once you find a good spot that spot is your go to spot each time you revisit. idk, mixed emotions, i love helping out of staters out when they come but not sure why it bugs when i see all the trucks arent from here. heck most are cali and wisconsin, oddly enough.

ivorytip
10-12-2012, 04:23 PM
everytime ive talked with them they have been nothing but nice and are hunting just like i am. i think its a guy thing. protective territory thing i guess. but is what it is

Edelweiss
10-12-2012, 05:51 PM
doe nob said it right. but more people that want to hunt here the higher it gets. to be honest.... and no ofesne to any out of staters, but when i drive in to the bas of a trail head to find nothing but out of state trucks parked there it kinda is a bummer. flattered that they enjoy idaho so much but bummed that they found a good spot. and if youve ever hunted out of state once you find a good spot that spot is your go to spot each time you revisit. idk, mixed emotions, i love helping out of staters out when they come but not sure why it bugs when i see all the trucks arent from here. heck most are cali and wisconsin, oddly enough.

I used to help folks hunt in Wyoming but it has only bit me in the butt. I am not saying I am entitled to hunt public land on my own, it's just dishartening to have a parking lot in an area where you used to hunt with your family.

My uncle completely ruined the Union Pass area for us. He has invited half the state of Texas and everyone in Minnesota and Michigan, and showed them the ropes.

Edelweiss
10-12-2012, 06:01 PM
As far as the price increase equalibrium? They don't care if the average bubba (I am an average bubba) can afford the tag or not. As long as they are able to sell the same number of licenses to increase their revenue to a point where they can continue to offer the same services they do now.

I hope their super raffle increases revenue as high as they think it will. Done correctly it could work very well. Washington states is a landmark money raiser.

One of the best things about some of these raffles, is that they waive the once in a lifetime requirement.

hoshour
10-13-2012, 12:00 AM
I told WY G&F that this just moves hunting for NRs increasingly to being a rich man's sport. It's just un-American to take hunting out of the working man's reach.

These guys seem to forget that they work for us! We pay their budgets and salaries. I hope a lot of angry voices remind them of that.

Edelweiss
10-13-2012, 02:26 AM
hoshour,

No one in the Game and Fish works for you. They aren't in a customer service business, they are in a wildlife management business, and sometimes the two connect and sometimes they don't. Quite a sense of entitlement you have there, did you pay taxes in Wyoming in 2011? Are you paying Wyoming taxes in 2012?

I personally don't care if they raise prices. I'll figure out a way to afford it anyhow. And if another $100 to $200 per tag or so is too much for you then pick another state. Outside of Nevada and Alaska, Wyoming has the most available public land hunting in USA.

They are doing it stay financially solvent, not to screw people from out of state. They know where their cash cow comes from, but they also have to appease those that can vote to influence Wyoming game statues and legislature.

I really appreciate how honest and open they have been.

I am currently an Alaska resident, I am thinking hard about moving back in Nov 2013 to Wyoming, and of course hunting on non-res tags in 2014. i'll just hunt stuff that doesn't have horns if I can draw the tags until I have been on the ground for a year.

Ilovethewest
10-13-2012, 07:04 AM
You are right on that. Their job is to manage wildlife. And with state budget cuts and rising costs everywhere, how do you get more funds in order to do that properly. I get that. But it does make things more difficult for alot of people, and that is a very real and very negative side effect. There are always plus/minus to any policy decision, and this one is no different. I see things both ways. Since budget cuts are the "in" thing these days (wife is a public school teacher so we have felt this in a pretty large financial way).........when revenues are down, the game and fish has to make up the difference somewhere...........cut services or increase revenue. As a lover of the outdoors and of the wonderful animals we hunt, to me cutting services is not a good option. But is increases from 315 to 550 really necessary? Is it right to jump them that much? Is it right for the state legislature to squeeze the GF that much?

Sadly there are really no clear cut answers to any of these problems. There is no black and white. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in these days.

On the actual Management front, on the mule deer end of things, I actually think Wyoming has done a poor job of management. I owuld love to see them go into more of a micro-management style. Scrap the Region tags (yes even though I am hunting a General Region next week) I think region tags need to go. I also would mind seeing a Mule Deer and Whitetail Tags. Maybe have the mulie tag the high 550, but the whitetail tag 200, or even 150. I think people hunting an area with mixed populations, people would get the expensive mule tag, and then "add on" the whitetail. Not only would this increase revenues to the state (550+150=700) for a tag that they only would have gotten 550 for.............it may also encourage people to shoot more whitetatils, which would bolster the mulie pops. I for one, coming from Wisconsin, will not shoot a whitetail on a tag that costs 550. Unless he is 160" or better, I wont be shooting. Now adding on a 2nd buck tag for 150?? I may shoot an extra whitetail for 150 bucks.

So while I get the need for increased revenues, there are both good and bad side effects to this. Whether long term its for the best, we shall see.

birdhunter
10-13-2012, 09:00 AM
I personally am getting tired of hearing people complain about how Wyoming is managed. Our game and fish does the best they can with what they have. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Wyo has the best opportunity to shoot a branch antlered elk in the lower 48. The mule deer problem is nation wide. They are falling hard. They game and fish are having statewide meetings with the public to see what is best for EVERYONE!!! Not just what is best for the dept. to make money. Price tag increases are one option. Seperate mulie and whitetail tags is another. The super tag auction, along with selling special stamps which the money will go to wildlife management (which I would bet not one NR will purchase) are all options they are considering. So please, don't jump the gun and assume that the price increase is the only option until you yourself have read into this a little further!!!

Personally, I feel that if you don't like what the state is doing, then don't come here. Trust me, it won't hurt the state. Someone else will just jump in your place instead of you! Right now Wyo is average or below average to what most states charge for out of state tags in the West. The price increase would put them at the top. I'm really tired of the millions of people living outside of Wyo trying to control what goes on here in Wyo. They have put a stop to coal, oil, and gas production and have cut 100's of jobs. The funny thing is, they all either fly here to protest or drive here. All of which requires the use of coal and oil!!!!! Now the NR want to control how we manage our wildlife for whats best for the NR. Why dont you think about whats best for Wyo, because the G&F really are in need of money. The game and fish have struggled for a few years now trying to be able to afford food for the elk on the winter ranges. Thankfully, some rich guy usually comes through and donates a couple million so it can be done.

So I thank the game and fish for all they do. Putting their lives at risk patrolling our forests and dealing with all the morons that poach and bitch about crappy management. They never can and never will be able to satisfy everyone out there. They do make mistakes, but who doesn't!

Ilovethewest
10-13-2012, 03:29 PM
good post birdhunter. I have said numerous times that I have had nothing but positive experiences with the WGFD. People in the office, wardens, biologists have been great to talk to and super helpful. There is no doubt that nobody likes tag increases, and it does stink for guys like me in the middle class of america having another increase to deal with. But as I said earlier, when budgets get cut, what are they supposed to do? I personally would like a different policy in mule deer managment, and I think I read in an Eastmans article that WY is looking into that. Thats a good thing. I don think the "region" tags work as well as they may have used to in the past.

And its not just WY that is getting killed in the job front..........regulations are killing many jobs in many states. So i get you there.

I love the state, and have hunted there since I was a kid. My fam has spent thousands and thousands of dollars over the year in the Wyoming. I doubt I will ever stop hunting there unless I simply cant afford it! I have met and talked to so many GOOD people from wyoming (birdhunter being one of them) among many good landowner, hunters, people in towns, and ect. I do wish there was better waysto beter things than tag increases. But in this day and age, budgets are cut everywhere in every facet of state gov't. the GF in WY is no different. But I dont hate the WGF, and I dont hate the state. Its a great state with many great people. I cant wait to drive out there this coming tuesday!

I just hope and pray that the hutning opportunities I grew up with still exist when my kids are old enough to hunt!

sigpros
10-13-2012, 06:55 PM
I just love how you residents think all that "public" land is "yours". That ground belongs to everyone to use, the sad truth is that hunting is becoming a rich mans game. All the hunting shows and "scoring" of animals will be hunting's demise. And it is happening everywhere. You can't find a place to deer hunt in missouri without paying to lease the land. That is why I was going to start hunting out of state. Sold my little deer hunting spot and figured for the same money I could just hop around out west and pursue different game. But I am heading to wyoming in a couple weeks to try and fill a cow elk tag. Haven't been hunting since colorado raised their rates. It has been way to long since I have ate an elk steak. I would probably pay the $750 for an elk tag if I had a good chance at an elk. Wyoming will see a huge amount of people dumping thier points next year. If nothing else it will be out of spite. And they will see a drop in hunters after the increase. How much I don't know, the increse to lost hunter ratio could even out or they could end up loosing reveune on the deal. And then there will be the guys who went every year that will be the every other or every 3rd year guys. Prices are going up on all things, I just don't think a 50% jump on some of the tags is smart. But what do I know I haven't been to college and wear boots and jeans to work.

Edelweiss
10-13-2012, 09:03 PM
Sigpros,

No one ever said all public land is theirs. The wildlife that lives on that public land belongs to the state that the wildlife is in. You can cry about it all you want, but it's federal law. And since it is the state's right to manage wildlife, they manage it the way the residents of the state see fit. Because at the end of the day, those same residents vote.

I don't know why people that CHOOSE to live in an area with no public land, cry so hard at the way it is managed. If you want a say, move West pay taxes and be part of the solution. Instead of complaining about something you don't have any control over.

All that is happening is Wyoming Game and Fish is raising the "tax" to pay for an increase in cost for services. The same as any other government agency.

Drop your tags I don't care, I'll figure out a way to pay for mine if I am eating mac and cheese and chinese food 5 nights a week. If you people drop all your sheep tags, it will mean I have a better shot at drawing a ram.

sigpros
10-13-2012, 09:58 PM
I'm not crying at all. I will use the control I have and not spend any of my money in your beloved western state then. No big deal to me, I can go to Africa every 3 to 5 years instead of buying points and tags in wyoming. And I know that the state a
has control over the animals. But maybe the state should pay the fed a fee for the graze the animals eat on the federally owned land? In missouri we have a sales tax that goes to our game and fish dept. I think it's like 1/8 of a cent. It helps out a lot with operating cost. I do agree that it's a slippery slope for sure and it is our responsibility to take care of all wildlife not just the game animals. I just think such a high jump is crazy. Why not do it $50 or $75 a year?

Edelweiss
10-14-2012, 12:27 AM
Sig,

And maybe you should pay the federal government every time your dog farts for contributing to the methane gas of our planet. :) Gotcha! Anyway, we both know that isn't going to happen.

Why not $50-75 per year? Because they need the money now, not in 5 or 6 years.

Dude, listen to me. I am a working stiff just like you are. Actually instead of a jeans I wear a military uniform every day. Not only am I in the military but I am a lowly E6 enlisted! Dirty E, we are called.

Pack your bags move west 2 or 3 states and make it work.

Doe Nob
10-15-2012, 09:35 AM
hoshour,
Quite a sense of entitlement you have there, did you pay taxes in Wyoming in 2011? Are you paying Wyoming taxes in 2012?


Does Wyoming have a state income tax? They had more tax money than they knew what to do with in Campbell county when I was growing up in Gillette. My jr. high school had a Planetarium!

Vanish
10-15-2012, 09:43 AM
Indeed, even without an income tax, WYoming has been running on a budget surplus. Make no mistake about it, raising the price of tags is NOT directly to pay for conservation.

Edelweiss
10-15-2012, 03:13 PM
Wyoming has property tax and sales tax.

Edelweiss
10-15-2012, 03:15 PM
Wyoming's Game and Fish is by law damn near completely funded by fishing and hunting tag sales revenues.

Fink
10-15-2012, 09:22 PM
In missouri we have a sales tax that goes to our game and fish dept. I think it's like 1/8 of a cent. It helps out a lot with operating cost.

I'd vote to repeal our 1/8th cent sales tax right now, if given the opportunity.

Colorado Cowboy
10-16-2012, 08:10 AM
The problem with most G & F entities is that their mission has changed over the years. They now manage almost all the "natural resources" ( I use that term knowning they don't get involved much in minerals/oil) versus just the fish & game like 50 to 100 years ago. They do this for the most part with hunters and fishermans $$$. Managing nongame and fish costs lots of money too. Somehow the general population has to contribute to this mandate. Too many times the treehuggers (Sierra Club, Earthfirst, etc) have gone to court and forced the inclusion of lots of things that were never envisioned as part of the G & F dept's mission. Who pays for this.....why the hunters and fisherman of course!!!

Doe Nob
10-16-2012, 09:08 AM
Wyoming's Game and Fish is by law damn near completely funded by fishing and hunting tag sales revenues.

So...going back to your earlier comments....In WY as a non-resident when i visit I pay taxes on whatever I buy. My property taxes go to pay for school, trash, sewer etc, things I use by living at my house. If its true WY G&F isn't recieving tax funds from residents other than tag sales, that argument kind of goes out the window and NR should be afforded more consideration for funding a major portion of the G& F budget. Particularly on lands owned by the Federal Government and maintained by any non-state agency. Is that going to happen, no - but that attitude of "Well move here then" is BS, residents are paying a lot less - bottom line.

Chippy Hacky
10-16-2012, 12:47 PM
I would like to see some ideas of taking fish/wildlife management private. Maybe let the Mule Deer Foundation take over Mule Deer management and the Elk Foundation take over Elk management. Have elected or appointed public officials "oversee" the operation and let them come up with new ideas. Not saying that those two entities would be the ones, just throwing their names out there as an idea.

No matter what you do there is soo much government waste. Being in the fire service in high rank prior to starting my own business, I have seen lots of waste. The funny thing is that the waste is all justified but when you have people who know nothing other than spending someone else's money they have blinders on. Public entities must create and devise busy work in order to justify their funding. Let's face it, not to many public entities are willing to give up their funding and slit their own throat, even if it is in the best interest of wildlife. What happens is that some other public entity picks up your funding because they created something (busy work) to do with your funding.

I think that private entities could be more flexible, more efficient and have the ability to bring in more volunteers and keep costs way, way down. It could be done in one mountain range, for example or one part of a state, just kind of a test.

Unfortunately it won't happen though.

SouthernWyo
10-16-2012, 02:51 PM
Doe Nob, you pay taxes here whenever you visit, we pay them all year, big difference. If you don't want to pay any sales tax in Wyoming, the choice is pretty simple, don't make the trip up here. No one is holding a gun to your head.

FYI, Residents pay less individually, but finance a larger portion of the WGFD budget collectively. The argument about land ownership has no bearing on financing wildlife management, which is a state responsibility. That argument holds no water and has been beaten to death.

Chippy, with all due respect, privatized management of the state's wildlife is quite possibly the worst possible suggestion that I have ever heard. Take a look into the North American model of wildlife management...

Edelweiss
10-16-2012, 03:24 PM
So...going back to your earlier comments....In WY as a non-resident when i visit I pay taxes on whatever I buy. My property taxes go to pay for school, trash, sewer etc, things I use by living at my house. If its true WY G&F isn't recieving tax funds from residents other than tag sales, that argument kind of goes out the window and NR should be afforded more consideration for funding a major portion of the G& F budget. Particularly on lands owned by the Federal Government and maintained by any non-state agency. Is that going to happen, no - but that attitude of "Well move here then" is BS, residents are paying a lot less - bottom line.

Ok, so you think it's BS. Then move to Wyoming and register to vote, so you can vote for politicians that will cripple the Fish and Game by not charging non-residents 10 times as much.

Edelweiss
10-16-2012, 03:35 PM
I would like to see some ideas of taking fish/wildlife management private. Maybe let the Mule Deer Foundation take over Mule Deer management and the Elk Foundation take over Elk management. Have elected or appointed public officials "oversee" the operation and let them come up with new ideas. Not saying that those two entities would be the ones, just throwing their names out there as an idea.

No matter what you do there is soo much government waste. Being in the fire service in high rank prior to starting my own business, I have seen lots of waste. The funny thing is that the waste is all justified but when you have people who know nothing other than spending someone else's money they have blinders on. Public entities must create and devise busy work in order to justify their funding. Let's face it, not to many public entities are willing to give up their funding and slit their own throat, even if it is in the best interest of wildlife. What happens is that some other public entity picks up your funding because they created something (busy work) to do with your funding.

I think that private entities could be more flexible, more efficient and have the ability to bring in more volunteers and keep costs way, way down. It could be done in one mountain range, for example or one part of a state, just kind of a test.

Unfortunately it won't happen though.

If you want a good example of privatisied wildlife enterprises go to Europe. Germany has 350,000 hunters in an area the size of Montana. Montana has 350,000 resident hunters, and aout 175,000 non-resident hunters. Under the Germany system, public hunting land is leased to a hunter for 5 years, at about $3500 per square mile per year. Because of the abundance of roe deer and wild boar, this is usually a cost shared by 3 to 4 hunters, who have to shoot about 30-40 roe deer per year and hopefully the same number of pigs. Areas that have red stags are usually 4 square miles and $10,000 per year, and those that have chamois and ibex are usually $100,000 per year and 12 square miles. The trees are leased by a forester and the farm land is leased by a farmer, and anyone can hike on it, but not camp.

Texas and South Africa are bad examples of privatised wildlife management. Not that you don't have anywildlife, but only those with access to the land can hunt it.

Grizz
10-16-2012, 04:07 PM
Doe Nob,
This is an interesting thread. Non-residents bitching about tag prices in a state they do not live in? The answer is simple... if you don't like it, don't visit. I doubt we will miss you.

Colorado Cowboy
10-16-2012, 04:18 PM
Be careful what you wish for! If there were no NR's to pay the bills of the G & F Dept, the residents probably couldn't afford the tags. Talk about a rich man's sport!!!

Edelweiss
10-16-2012, 04:34 PM
I am not a Wyoming resident either, but I grew up there most of my life and am probably moving back next year.

ando_31
10-16-2012, 05:17 PM
There sure are a lot of strong opinions about this issue. I can't afford the price of a tag in WY so I just won't go. I would be more worried about how they're going to spend/waste the extra money. I've seen plenty of PLOTS land in ND (private land leased to the ND game and fish department for public hunting) that are just plowed fields. You tell me why I should be paying more to my government so they could spend the money on a piece of land that is a flat section of plowed dirt. There are plenty of good plots areas too, but even one plowed field is wasted money and gets me angry that I paid for a percentage of that (even if it is a small percentage). I do like my game and fish dept to be well funded, I just want to make sure the money is used in a resourceful manner that benefits the "working man" hunter.

Wyohunter
10-16-2012, 07:57 PM
I am beginning to think that the out of staters that are complaining are just mad because wyoming is one of the more affordable states to hunt right now. Most if the other states are in the same ballpark of what Wyoming is proposing for license increases. As far as I know the other states have no problems selling tags to nr hunters. Just because the Bills, Bobs, and Joes can't afford it anymore doesnt mean the Franks can't. Fact is licenses will still be sold and there are a handful of the nr hunters that are sitting back and smiling because they know that the drawing odds are going to increase significantly so instead of waiting five years to draw a good tag it will only be two years. Sorry to those of you that can't afford it. Some of the resident tags are going to be going up 150 percent while the same nr tag is only going to be going up 20-30 percent do some of the nr will be happy that the gap will close a little bit.

Edelweiss
10-16-2012, 08:13 PM
I am at least 2 years away from being a Wyoming resident if we end up moving back. Another year in the military overseas and then another year waiting on my residency to kick in after I retire and move back.

I'll continue to buy points and not apply until my residency kicks in. I will apply for a NR bull bison tag for the refuge for 2013, as it's a fair deal even at $1500 for the amount of meat we would get out of him. Since they made it once in a lifetime on bison, I can't see any merit in applying for a cow.

I am in points only tag programs in Utah, Nevada, Arizona and at least one other state. I wish more states had the same programs. I hope not all of them raise their points programs cost, as I am still a working class guy with a family to feed. But if they do it's their own perogative.

I agree that Wyoming's price increases will price out a few folks, but the increased availability by pricing those non-residents out will mean an increase in drawing chances. The state won't lose anything with the price increase, regardless of what you nay-sayers are talking about.

If we end up in Montana or Idaho or anywhere else I'll still apply in Wyoming, as I have family there and it's still a very workable state for a non-resident to hunt. Especially if you have horses and can get a resident sponsor for the wilderness areas.

AKaviator
10-16-2012, 08:35 PM
No matter how any state manages their wildlife, someone will be unhappy. However, it looks to me that Wyoming has done a pretty good job overall. Given the hand Wyoming has been dealt with the wolf reintroduction and the accompanying lawsuits, the cost has certainly gone up. Properly managing wildlife is expensive. As a non-resident of every state except Alaska, I would prefer to hunt those states that have sound management. If I have to pay more for that, so be it. Will it hurt my wallet? Sure, I might not be able to hunt Wyoming as soon or as often, but when I do get too, hopefully the hunt will be of good quality. I do know that every state or federal agency can and do waste money, that's an issue we should take up with the legislature of the states. Privatization is not the answer and is unconstitutional. I'll pay the extra money, not gladly, but willingly if Wyoming continues to manage their resources well.

ando_31
10-16-2012, 09:13 PM
I'll pay the extra money, not gladly, but willingly if Wyoming continues to manage their resources well.

Well said. It eases the pain of higher prices if the money goes to a good cause and betters your hunting chances and experiences.

Edelweiss
10-17-2012, 03:44 AM
I concur, to me Wyoming's mix of large tracks of public land, and lots of tags makes it the top pick among any western states for a usability.

You might shoot a bigger bull in an area that takes a lifetime to draw in Utah, Arizona or Nevada, but you won't shoot as many bulls in the top trophy units as you will in a lifetime of hunting elk in old Wyoming.

Doe Nob
10-17-2012, 10:47 PM
Doe Nob,
This is an interesting thread. Non-residents bitching about tag prices in a state they do not live in? The answer is simple... if you don't like it, don't visit. I doubt we will miss you.

Have you ever paid for a non-resident tag anywhere? If not that explains a lot about this attitude.

Every one is a non-resident in every other state.

Doe Nob
10-17-2012, 10:50 PM
And on the topic, I think a supertag raffle system would be more egalitarian and help the budget as much if not more without reducing our base as hunters.

Edelweiss
10-18-2012, 12:03 AM
Texas and Washington both have super raffles, what kind of dollars do they raise?

Drhorsepower
10-18-2012, 01:27 AM
Nevada does as well.

Edelweiss
10-18-2012, 02:46 PM
drhorsepower,

Any idea what kind of dollars Nevada's super raffle raises?

Doe Nob
10-18-2012, 07:49 PM
Nevada dream tags are $5 and I believe raised $167k after expenses in their inagural season, That was for 5 tags and they also make you buy a $10 habitat stamp before you can buy raffle chances. I'll try and look up more when I get time, headed to elk camp tomorrow!

Edelweiss
10-18-2012, 08:48 PM
Good luck!

SouthernWyo
10-18-2012, 10:55 PM
Have you ever paid for a non-resident tag anywhere? If not that explains a lot about this attitude.

Every one is a non-resident in every other state.

Doe nob, actualy it explains alot about your attitude. Belive it or not, there are quite a few folks out there that only hunt their own states and don't spend thousands bankrolling non resident hunting licences. I have a tough time finding sympathy for folks with the disposable income to fund what amounts to pure recreation. Like I've said, life is full of choices, if you don't think the increased fees are worth the return, then don't spend the $$ on the product.

Doe Nob
10-19-2012, 08:17 AM
I believe it, we used to meat hunt to survive when I was a child. May have to again in the future. I don't now though. Eastman's is all about big game western trophy hunting and a lot of it done out of state, I thought that's what this community was into, do you even subscribe to the magazine?

I am pretty sure hunting is all pure recreation for all of us. If you do some accounting of what that elk burger costs to get to your freezer for the equivalent beef you could have bought in the store, you might come out ahead not hunting at all.

The bottom line is the more expensive it gets for anyone the harder it is to do it and it excludes people. I'm more worried about the father with three sons that can't afford to go antelope hunting now and so they never get introduced to the sport and get into other things. Raising costs decreases our political base. Its a national issue.

In God We Trust
10-19-2012, 10:46 AM
Well I have waited to weigh in on this but here goes. First off I am a Colorado resident, born and raised in the west. I think the us (west) vs. everyone else is a bad attitude to have amongst hunters. I hunt Wyoming at least every other year and the G and F does a good job managing the wildlife as a whole and I have never met nicer field officers. I also hunt AZ, NE, and IA alternating years. I see both sides of the resident non resident coin. Believe me we see more than our share of non resident hunters here in Colorado. My problem with Wyoming's price hike is they are so steep so fast. I understand the "special" tags are just that and will cater to hard core or wealthy hunters. But over 500 for a deer tag and 700 for an elk tag is steep. Colorado charges less than that and the hunting opportunities are pretty good here as well. I will continue to hunt Wyoming but probably every 3 years instead of every year or two. Wyoming residents, the "if you don't like it quit coming here and stop crying" bit sounds arrogant and me first. Be careful what you wish for, all of us that live in states that see a lot of non resident hunters benefit from those guys by low tag prices for us and millions of dollars pumped into our states. I wouldn't gloat that these guys feel they are being jacked around with huge tag price increases. Wyoming is a different case than Colorado or Utah because there are not as many residents to bear the majority of the financial load of a G and F operation. Everyone remember if we don't have non resident hunters we all pay over 150.00 for big game tags as residents. Also be glad your state is only crowded during hunting season, if all of them "moved to Wyoming" it would be overcrowded like Colorado has become. At the end of the day we need all of the hunters to stand together or we will loose more and more hunting opportunities. Good luck hunting and God bless.
Doe Nob has a point, if it gets too expensive you will see more kids sitting at home playing Xbox and not going afield. Then who will carry on the tradition as we grow older and quit going!

Eberle
10-19-2012, 09:39 PM
Well I have waited to weigh in on this but here goes. First off I am a Colorado resident, born and raised in the west. I think the us (west) vs. everyone else is a bad attitude to have amongst hunters. I hunt Wyoming at least every other year and the G and F does a good job managing the wildlife as a whole and I have never met nicer field officers. I also hunt AZ, NE, and IA alternating years. I see both sides of the resident non resident coin. Believe me we see more than our share of non resident hunters here in Colorado. My problem with Wyoming's price hike is they are so steep so fast. I understand the "special" tags are just that and will cater to hard core or wealthy hunters. But over 500 for a deer tag and 700 for an elk tag is steep. Colorado charges less than that and the hunting opportunities are pretty good here as well. I will continue to hunt Wyoming but probably every 3 years instead of every year or two. Wyoming residents, the "if you don't like it quit coming here and stop crying" bit sounds arrogant and me first. Be careful what you wish for, all of us that live in states that see a lot of non resident hunters benefit from those guys by low tag prices for us and millions of dollars pumped into our states. I wouldn't gloat that these guys feel they are being jacked around with huge tag price increases. Wyoming is a different case than Colorado or Utah because there are not as many residents to bear the majority of the financial load of a G and F operation. Everyone remember if we don't have non resident hunters we all pay over 150.00 for big game tags as residents. Also be glad your state is only crowded during hunting season, if all of them "moved to Wyoming" it would be overcrowded like Colorado has become. At the end of the day we need all of the hunters to stand together or we will loose more and more hunting opportunities. Good luck hunting and God bless.
Doe Nob has a point, if it gets too expensive you will see more kids sitting at home playing Xbox and not going afield. Then who will carry on the tradition as we grow older and quit going!

Well said my Friend!

Colorado Cowboy
10-19-2012, 10:14 PM
Yes sir...well said.

trkytrack2
10-20-2012, 12:32 AM
No different in Texas. Residents pay a lot less. Hunting in Texas is either pay for a lease or pay for access to hunt. Not much public land in Texas. Hell, there are states back east where you have to buy a permit just to venture onto the National Forests (public lands). Everyone is getting the shaft out west, no matter what state you choose to hunt.Every other western state will raise their prices too. But in Wyoming's case, they just built a new billion dollar G&F headquarters and this is their way to help pay for it. Sportsman are their only source of funding soooo..............

Edelweiss
10-20-2012, 01:46 AM
Buildings are part of a budget the Game and Fish gets from the state government.

Tag sales didn't buy it.