PDA

View Full Version : Evidence of sex



SAR
10-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Does anyone know of any good videos or web sites that illustrate how to preserve evidence of sex for both bulls and cows?

labman
10-16-2012, 05:29 PM
The Colorado Dept of wildlife has a good one on their website.

Chippy Hacky
10-16-2012, 05:35 PM
Just start skinning out his junk or the nipple first and work your way around it. If you do this you will be fine. With a bull you have two chances to get it right!

SAR
10-16-2012, 05:47 PM
The Colorado Dept of wildlife has a good one on their website.

Thanks labman, i'll check it out.

Old Hunter
10-16-2012, 09:59 PM
Just start skinning out his junk or the nipple first and work your way around it. If you do this you will be fine. With a bull you have two chances to get it right!

Nipple? Eh?

Chippy Hacky
10-16-2012, 10:44 PM
For a Cow, he asked about cows too. :)


Nipple? Eh?

Old Hunter
10-17-2012, 09:11 AM
I understand that, but a nipple is not proof of sex on a cow.

wolftalonID
10-17-2012, 12:02 PM
I have never figured out how leaving a bulls junk behind and having this huge head and rack is not evidence of sex. I know I havent seen everything in life, but something tells me that you probably wont see a cow elk with antlers.

I do understand why its important if your on a cow tag to show proof of a cow harvest.

SAR
10-17-2012, 03:43 PM
I understand that, but a nipple is not proof of sex on a cow.

Hi Pete, I watched the video on the CO DOW web site last night and that is what they saved for a cow elk ID.

Chippy Hacky
10-17-2012, 03:59 PM
That's what an Idaho Game Warden told me. I hope you don't have to leave an ovarie or something, what else you gonna do?


I understand that, but a nipple is not proof of sex on a cow.

Colorado Cowboy
10-17-2012, 04:15 PM
I understand that, but a nipple is not proof of sex on a cow.

I've been checked in Colorado, Wyoming and California and nipples are good as long as they are attached to an edible piece of meat. It is very easy to tell the difference between nipples on does and bucks. Size mostly and also even tho they may not have a fawn, most are not totally dry and will have traces of milky fluid. I usually leave enought skin attached (almost as far back as the anus) along with the nipples, that anyone can see it doesn't have any male organs. You don't need any evidence of sex on an either sex tag.

ivorytip
10-17-2012, 06:21 PM
ive never understood this. how many of us have just butchered the elk on the mountain and packed it out? i would never shoot a cow in a place id have to pack it out like that but a bull... several times. ive been checked before and the horns seem to do the trick. guess i need to be more carefull of this, id hate to get a dumb ticket.

Colorado Cowboy
10-17-2012, 06:42 PM
A lot also depends om how the tagging is done. My experience is that when the tag is called a Carcass Tag, then evidence of sex is needed. Years ago we used to just attach the tag to the horns, even when detached from the carcass. Can't do that on a carcass tag.

Chippy Hacky
10-17-2012, 06:46 PM
Last year on a hunt in Idaho I had my buck hanging in camp, cut in half. We were checked and he specifically asked what we were going to do, take it home as is or bone it out for the ride home. I told him that we were thinking of boning it out. He looked to see if we left "enough" evidence of sex and we didn't on this one. He wrote us a ticket that basically gave us a piece of paper to show any other warden (his info, when he checked us, etc.). It wasn't a fine, it was just a piece of paper we could show to another warden that said we had a deer that had been checked so they wouldn't write us up for lack of evidence, just in case we wanted to bone it out in camp. He also said that it is one of the things he writes the most. We normally leave it because we normally bone out but in this case we took it out in half. So, its not just getting them off the mountain, it is getting them back home too.


ive never understood this. how many of us have just butchered the elk on the mountain and packed it out? i would never shoot a cow in a place id have to pack it out like that but a bull... several times. ive been checked before and the horns seem to do the trick. guess i need to be more carefull of this, id hate to get a dumb ticket.

Chippy Hacky
10-17-2012, 06:50 PM
I should say too that I spoke with a warden in Washington about this and he said that you should leave evidence of sex but it was up to the warden's discretion and usually they are just looking for a "single animal worth of meat". We called to settle a bet at the fire station, the question came up as to what would happen if your knife slipped or you messed up skinning the animal out.

Old Hunter
10-17-2012, 07:10 PM
I've been checked in Colorado, Wyoming and California and nipples are good as long as they are attached to an edible piece of meat. It is very easy to tell the difference between nipples on does and bucks. Size mostly and also even tho they may not have a fawn, most are not totally dry and will have traces of milky fluid. I usually leave enought skin attached (almost as far back as the anus) along with the nipples, that anyone can see it doesn't have any male organs. You don't need any evidence of sex on an either sex tag.

That's not what they told me. You still need to show what you shot with an either sex tag.

SAR
10-17-2012, 07:34 PM
My upcoming hunt is an either sex hunt in OR and was told I must still show evidence of sex, doesnít make any sense but thatís the way it is I guess. Itís a good discussion to have because we all have cut the head of game and skinned them out nice and clean thinking youíre doing the right thing, if checked by the wrong warden this could really make for a bad experience after being successful on your hunt.

Colorado Cowboy
10-17-2012, 08:00 PM
Just got back from Wyoming from an antelope hunt and was checked by a warden. We had 2 ES tags and 4 Doe/fawn tags. Warden told us he didnot really care about the sex evidence on the ES tags, only the DF tags. He only checked for the tags being filled out and dates cut into tags. Guess it depends on the individual warden.

SAR
10-17-2012, 08:30 PM
Just got back from Wyoming from an antelope hunt and was checked by a warden. We had 2 ES tags and 4 Doe/fawn tags. Warden told us he didnot really care about the sex evidence on the ES tags, only the DF tags. He only checked for the tags being filled out and dates cut into tags. Guess it depends on the individual warden.

It seems like wardens in some states are much more forgiving then others. I feel like I have a beacon on my forehead so if the regs state it I’m doing it!

AKaviator
10-17-2012, 09:53 PM
SAR, I hate to break it too you...If your'e from a town called Weed, you really may have a beacon on your forehead! Only Joking!

SAR
10-18-2012, 01:55 PM
SAR, I hate to break it too you...If your'e from a town called Weed, you really may have a beacon on your forehead! Only Joking!

LMAO!!! :) No kidding.

Futboler
10-19-2012, 09:11 AM
So I ran into this problem this year. I shot an archery bull and had to bone him out because of the heat and distance. How are you suppose to preserve evidence of sex in that case? I'm sure most wardens are lenient in that circumstance, but are you suppose to still leave part of the scrotum attached to a hind piece of meat. I didn't do it and did not get checked, but this issue arose.

Old Hunter
10-19-2012, 09:18 AM
You have to leave evidence attached naturally. That's also a good place to attach the tag. You could have gotten a ticket.

Big Sky
10-19-2012, 09:21 AM
We had that exact thing happen to my family 3 years ago. My mom and stepdad each shot cow elk in the evening. We took the horses back the next day to pack them out. We quartered and boned every thing to fit on the horses and packed it out, three hours lasted when we made it back to the trailer the game warden was waiting there to check every thing. The tags were ok and correct but since we didn't leave evidence of sex she loaded both of them into here pickup and issued over $500 worth of fines. We heard later that day that Fish and Game was trying to catch an outfitter in the area that had a reputation of shooting bulls and throwing the skulls unto trees until winter and using a cow tag.

ivorytip
10-19-2012, 09:31 AM
wow! so when i quarter and bone my elk 5 miles from closest rd i need to leave the dannlers attached to a hind Q?? haha, ill do it. who know might even come up with a creative idea on how to sell those testees and make some mula. im gonn contact idaho fish and game to get a spicific answer for this state. i have a feeling its all depends on what warden i talk to for thier personal opinion.

ivorytip
10-19-2012, 09:35 AM
i just copied and pasted this from idaho fish and game web site... question and answer page.


"Several years ago, evidence of sex rules were specific to the hunt. In other words, in an either-sex hunt there was no requirement for evidence of sex; while in sex-specific hunts there was the requirement. Depending on the year, and the hunting season, the evidence-of-sex requirement did or did not apply - even in the same unit. This created confusion among hunters. In an effort to simplify the regulation and make it easier to comply with, the Idaho Fish and Game Commission changed the rule to standardize it's application for all big game hunting.

Fortunately, there are some very simple and uncomplicated ways of leaving evidence-of-sex. For females, leaving 1 teat attached to the carcass will suffice. For males, leaving a small section of the penil ligament (white cord entering the rectal canal) attached to 1 hind quarter is all that is needed. "

....

Old Hunter
10-19-2012, 01:31 PM
For your state. The teat will not work here for a cow. At least not with my local warden.

ivorytip
10-19-2012, 01:41 PM
yeah it seems like some of these wardens have thier own rules they come up with. sounds like the boy's boys will be staying astached from here on out. oh... and the girl's girls....

Awise1
10-28-2012, 08:28 PM
I have never figured out how leaving a bulls junk behind and having this huge head and rack is not evidence of sex. I know I havent seen everything in life, but something tells me that you probably wont see a cow elk with antlers.

I do understand why its important if your on a cow tag to show proof of a cow harvest.

Growing up in Oregon in the 50s and 60s, my dad worked in a sawmill with two brothers that were notorious for violating fish and game regulations. If both brothers held bull tags and only one killed a bull, they had access to a walk-in cooler and would put the head in the cooler for a few days. The next weekend, they would kill a cow, skin and quarter it and have a bulls head and antlers to accompany the meat, using the second bull tag. Decades later when I started hunting again in Colorado, the evidence of sex attached made perfect sense to me as to why this regulation evolved. I've never checked Oregon's regulations, but I'm sure they've probably changed by now as have most states to try and stay a step ahead of the criminal mind.

Edelweiss
10-28-2012, 11:31 PM
Alaska game and fish has a very good DVD out on judging moose that includes a "evidence of male parts" segment that shows how to cut them apart and keep one knee slapper on the animal.

ivorytip
10-29-2012, 06:15 PM
knee slapper? really? hahaha, thats great edelweiss, i will deff use that from here on out.

Musket Man
11-03-2012, 02:06 PM
I think its because people will kill a big buck way back somewhere and just bring the head out and then shoot a doe close to the road for meat and claim its the bucks meat.

ivorytip
11-04-2012, 06:29 AM
well put musket man, ive thought that same thing and have allways wondered how often that happens. logicaly we are supose to leave head gear on hill until meat is all out. thats a hard thing to do when you have a trophy animal down, hard to let that out of sight but that sick feeling you get when meat goes bad isnt worth it.