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bluedunn0
10-17-2012, 04:49 PM
The regulations state you must be accompanied by a guide or resident guide. What is everyones take on "accompanied by?" How close do they need to be??

SouthernWyo
10-17-2012, 06:37 PM
They have to be in your presence. Camping with a guide or resident guide and then going your separate ways to hunt every day won't cut it.

AKaviator
10-17-2012, 06:41 PM
bluedunn0, I can't speak for Wyoming. Alaska has a similar regulation in place and has recently defined "Accompanied" to mean within 100 yards when the non-resident is attempting to take game. The regulation had been less well defined but people were trying to circumvent it and coming up with all sorts of there own ideas of what "accompany" means.
It used to be that a "reasonable man" standard was used. Now, it's far harder to find that "reasonable man". Giving the regulation a defined distance requirement makes it more enforceable, although it is still a tough one to enforce.

Edelweiss
10-17-2012, 08:57 PM
Kind of BS that the number of assholes that drive directly past a fairly large wilderness signs and just ignore them. I wish they would make the wilderness areas biggers.

If Alaska didn't limit brown bear, sheep, goat to guide only for non-resident there woudln't be any left in the state. I wish they would add moose to that list.

Bitterroot Bulls
10-17-2012, 09:06 PM
Kind of BS that the number of assholes that drive directly past a fairly large wilderness signs and just ignore them. I wish they would make the wilderness areas biggers.

If Alaska didn't limit brown bear, sheep, goat to guide only for non-resident there woudln't be any left in the state. I wish they would add moose to that list.

I have to absolutely wholeheartedly disagree here.

There are plenty of respectful and responsible out of state hunters out there.

I went on a DIY Alaskan Moose hunt this season and was checked thoroughly by an Alaskan State Trooper that commended us on our by-the-book hunt, meat, and trophy care. I am thankful that the state of Alaska made that available to me. It was a tremendous experience.

Edelweiss
10-18-2012, 12:19 AM
Bitterroot, I think we will have to disagree on that one. Between the Forest Service and WGF I don't think there are enough cops in both agencies to keep all the non-res idiots from running their quads into the Wilderness areas in Wyoming.

I am not saying everyone from out of state is an idiot. I am saying that idiots are common.

As for Alaska moose, they should shut it down on the road system for non-res. I would consider that to be a very quick notion.

Dall Sheep and Mountain Goats are on the verge of being 100% drawing for both. A lot of guys moved to Alaska just so they could hunt sheep every year. Problem is that between them and the guides the sheep are getting pretty thin on the ground. The damn NPS "Gates of the Arctic" doesn't help either.

bluedunn0
10-18-2012, 06:32 AM
I still can't find a logical reason for the law in Wyoming...Other than outfitter driven $$

Bitterroot Bulls
10-18-2012, 08:19 AM
I still can't find a logical reason for the law in Wyoming...Other than outfitter driven $$

That is THE reason.

A non-resident backpacker can traverse any wilderness in Wyoming, but a hunter can't hunt there? Ridiculous.

Edelweiss,

I fully agree that residents should have some tag advantages, but limiting the activities tax paying Americans can do on Federal lands they pay for does not pass muster. What is the logic to your position on the Alaskan road system? We hunted the backcountry, but entered from a road system, and ONLY saw residents on the road system, and plenty of them.

We hunted BLM land that we pay taxes for and used it appropriately. I don't see why we should be restricted from that.

It is true that there are idiots everywhere that pay no attention to the law, but non-residents certainly don't have a corner on that market.

It drives me nuts when guys break the wilderness laws in MT, but I am certain residents and non-residents are responsible.

Colorado Cowboy
10-18-2012, 09:10 AM
Bitterroot,

You got it right. Here in Colorado (at least locally in my area), the people who break the rules on off road use are usually NOThunters. The Wyoming law that says NR hunters must have a guide or local when hunting in wilderness is surely outfitter driven. In Colorado the G & F Commission, who mostly make the rules, have more seats on the commission than " non connected" hunters and fisherman. Recently the Parks & G&F were combined into one department, making it even worse.

My experience with the Wyoming Wilderness areas (while limited to the Teton Wilderness) is that there really is no problem with OHV use as these areas are just too rough and watched pretty closely by everyone, not just "authorities". The view that the public is or will destroy the wilderness areas if you let them is what the protectionists spout off as scare tactics. It just doesn't hold water.

Fink
10-18-2012, 09:30 AM
Kind of BS that the number of assholes that drive directly past a fairly large wilderness signs and just ignore them. I wish they would make the wilderness areas biggers.

If Alaska didn't limit brown bear, sheep, goat to guide only for non-resident there woudln't be any left in the state. I wish they would add moose to that list.

That's a fairly substantial blanket statement.. Where I come from, we don't have wilderness areas, but we do have lots of private property, and it seems to me that most of the offenders of boundaries are local people, not nonresidents. It also seems as though most of the poaching is done by locals as well.

Shaun
10-18-2012, 09:31 AM
Wyoming back country has always been on my "Bucket List" it def kills me knowing for the most part that if I wanted to do it I would have to pay a guide. Seems money driven to me as previously stated

mntnguide
10-18-2012, 12:47 PM
During the summer the grizzlies are up high and not scouring for food with hibernation near...This time of year its a different story. I deal with grizzlies everyday where we guide. Last hunt a griz went through an 11,000 volt fence at night to try to get in to our camp, we obviously chased him off. We run 3 strand fence around the entire camp powered by boat batteries that hits 11,000 volts. How many DIY that have never had to deal with grizzlies have any idea how to protect a camp from these bears and are going to have the ability to pack in enough gear to safely do so? If you havent hunted around the Western wyoming areas that the grizzlies are thick in, you have no idea what its like. There is a reason any random person shouldnt be allowed to hunt in it without proper experience on how to keep grizzlies from getting free meals. The way these bears act during July is entirely different than now. They follow my horse tracks everyday hoping to get a meal. We have a couple specific bears in our area that will be on us within 30 minutes of having shot at something. Its a different game that many people do not understand because they have never had to deal with it. If wyoming opened the wilderness areas to anyone, I guarantee the amount of bad grizzly encounters would shoot through the roof, as nobody understands what they are capable of until you deal with it constantly.

Colorado Cowboy
10-18-2012, 01:31 PM
During the summer the grizzlies are up high and not scouring for food with hibernation near...This time of year its a different story. I deal with grizzlies everyday where we guide. Last hunt a griz went through an 11,000 volt fence at night to try to get in to our camp, we obviously chased him off. We run 3 strand fence around the entire camp powered by boat batteries that hits 11,000 volts. How many DIY that have never had to deal with grizzlies have any idea how to protect a camp from these bears and are going to have the ability to pack in enough gear to safely do so? If you havent hunted around the Western wyoming areas that the grizzlies are thick in, you have no idea what its like. There is a reason any random person shouldnt be allowed to hunt in it without proper experience on how to keep grizzlies from getting free meals. The way these bears act during July is entirely different than now. They follow my horse tracks everyday hoping to get a meal. We have a couple specific bears in our area that will be on us within 30 minutes of having shot at something. Its a different game that many people do not understand because they have never had to deal with it. If wyoming opened the wilderness areas to anyone, I guarantee the amount of bad grizzly encounters would shoot through the roof, as nobody understands what they are capable of until you deal with it constantly.

Sounds as tho this regulation should apply to residents also, given these conditions. Singleing out NR's makes no sense as the grizzlies cannot tell the difference!!! I went on a guided hunt last year to Thorofare and yes, there were bears and wolves too for that matter. Our outfitter did the same as you at our camp. The bears are smart (and conditioned) enough to know a gut pile is probable after a shot. I still don't know how they can tell the difference between a NR and a city person from Jackson!

Bitterroot Bulls
10-18-2012, 02:35 PM
mtnguide,

I guess I don't understand the argument.

Girzzly bears in Wyoming Wilderness areas are more dangerous than those in other states? or outside the wilderness boundary?

They are only dangerous to hunters, but not hikers, photographers, miners, or fisherman?

I am quite comfortable hunting in Grizzly country myself, and I fully understand the risks of any wilderness activity. I don't think I need a guide to tell me how to deal with bears ... or moose ... or windstorms ... or lightning ... or steep slopes ... or flash floods ... or homicidal maniacs ... or any other number of dangers in the wild.

I have no problem paying extra for out of state tags, or giving residents preference on draws, but arbitrarily nixing public wilderness from non-res hunters for the protection of an industry just doesn't sit well with me.

jenbickel
10-18-2012, 02:40 PM
During the summer the grizzlies are up high and not scouring for food with hibernation near...This time of year its a different story. I deal with grizzlies everyday where we guide. Last hunt a griz went through an 11,000 volt fence at night to try to get in to our camp, we obviously chased him off. We run 3 strand fence around the entire camp powered by boat batteries that hits 11,000 volts. How many DIY that have never had to deal with grizzlies have any idea how to protect a camp from these bears and are going to have the ability to pack in enough gear to safely do so? If you havent hunted around the Western wyoming areas that the grizzlies are thick in, you have no idea what its like. There is a reason any random person shouldnt be allowed to hunt in it without proper experience on how to keep grizzlies from getting free meals. The way these bears act during July is entirely different than now. They follow my horse tracks everyday hoping to get a meal. We have a couple specific bears in our area that will be on us within 30 minutes of having shot at something. Its a different game that many people do not understand because they have never had to deal with it. If wyoming opened the wilderness areas to anyone, I guarantee the amount of bad grizzly encounters would shoot through the roof, as nobody understands what they are capable of until you deal with it constantly.

I agree with you!
I don't think he is saying that a bear can tell the difference between a NR and a resident but living in the state where we have all these animals in our backyard, we are trained and have the knowledge of how to best prepare ourselves and deal with the situation. I'm not saying NR don't, I'm sure some do but someone from South Carolina coming out here for their first DIY experience probably doesn't fully understand how deadly these mountains can be. There have been a lot of threads on here asking about how to best prepare for bears and the back country. Think of how many grizzly attacks there are in Yellowstone every year from tourists out hiking and camping. I truly don't think that the wilderness thing is a money hungry deal. You can get a resident guide to go with and they don't have to charge anything. Obviously, people from other wilderness states like Alaska are going to know how to handle themselves but I don't think they want to re-write the regulations to allow a couple of states to be able to hunt our wilderness and not others.

When is the hating on Wyoming going to end?! :)

Edelweiss
10-18-2012, 03:16 PM
The law has been in effect my whole life. In the 1970's it had nothing to do with grizzlys as there weren't that many. It had everything to do with search and rescue.

My father was the head of Fremont County search and rescue during that time, and the thought was that they would reduce the number of search and rescue incidents by not allowing non-residents into the wilderness. I did a cursory google search to see when the law came into effect and I can't find anything. I am sure a search of Wyoming state statues would put up a date.

Most Wyoming wilderness areas are near or connected to Yellowstone or Grand Teton National Park. Like Montana's Bob Marshal and the big one I can't remember the name of in Idaho (Is it Frank Cook?), these are huge areas. A wrong turn, a bad fall, and now some bears acting non-Yogi like can really ruin your day. Add that little note to being 20-80 miles from a road, and you can be in serious doggie doo really quickly.

Your right someone who has back country experience in another Western stated and fully understands what making a go of life in the wilderness is all about, probably won't get into trouble.

But how do they police it? How do they qualify experience? Or outfitting and equipment? They could do it like the Klondike where you had to have a laundry list of equipment just to walk into the area, and have it checked off by a Game Warden at the trailhead.

A mountain of anti-bear devices isn't going to keep a trio of Texans alive when the mercury drops to minus 30 and their GPS batteries die. So they freeze to death on a mountain pass because they can't 3 point triangulate their location to get back on the trail head and down the mountain.

Or a backpacker from the Sierras that has climbed and hunted all over the world, but he wants to travel light so he forgoes the 12 volt battery and electric fence and ends up as bear poop.

Another wonderful aspect of the wilderness areas is even the residents of Wyoming don't really use them in any great numbers.

Edelweiss
10-18-2012, 03:21 PM
mtnguide,



Girzzly bears in Wyoming Wilderness areas are more dangerous than those in other states?

Montana Bear

4350


Wyoming Bear


4349

mntnguide
10-18-2012, 03:41 PM
Bitterroot-
Thats great you are comfortable in grizzly country..But that is because you have had the opportunity to live and hunt in it. Grizzlies reside in a small section of 3 western states. That is a very small percentage of people that have the ability to understand how to hunt in areas with them. For the most part the non-res that come out this way are not going to be from any of these areas and are much more likely to be from a state that has never had a grizzly set foot in it. Do i feel that some people could do just fine hunting in a grizzly area..of course. But to change an entire regulation for a select number of people who understand what they are dealing with will never happen. Also, the number of grizzlies not located inside our wilderness areas is far fewer than the amount that are in the wilderness areas.

Colorado-
I agree entirely that there are residents that should not be setting foot into the wilderness as they have no clue what they are doing. Should they have a test that should be taken by those wanting to hunt on their own in a wilderness area? sure but i doubt that will ever happen. As for your statement about grizzlies not being able to tell the difference between a local and non-res..It is not the bears fault, Its the person standing there that has never seen a 600lb bear at 50 feet to know that grizzlies have notoriously bad eye sight and usually come in close to investigate before you can run them off. For someone that has never seen that, There is a good chance it scares the hell out of them and they think they are in danger. I would say almost every client i take is not comfortable with how close we get to bears, and yet for myself I never feel in danger cause i am commonly around them and know their actions and can tell if the bear is a bad one or not.

I think Edelweiss has also put a great aspect to it in his above post.

Drhorsepower
10-18-2012, 03:52 PM
Good points mtnguide.

One thing though is why are hikers allowed to go in and not new a guide? I can go tomorrow to Wyoming to go hike but not hunt a wilderness on public land without hiring a guide. That's ridiculous. If it is because of grizzlies, why don't they put on a mandatory online class to educate people not from grizzly country. Just a thought.

It's funny though, public land that well... Isn't.

jenbickel
10-18-2012, 03:59 PM
Montana Bear

4350


Wyoming Bear


4349

This cracked me up :)

Murdy
10-18-2012, 04:23 PM
One thing though is why are hikers allowed to go in and not new a guide? I can go tomorrow to Wyoming to go hike but not hunt a wilderness on public land without hiring a guide. That's ridiculous.

And also completely backwards. Seems to me most hunters put in a lot more in terms of planning, learning, and preparation than casual hikers visiting Yellowstone.

Bitterroot Bulls
10-18-2012, 04:44 PM
Edelweiss and mtnguide,

Your arguments don't hold water when non-residents are allowed to do any other activity in the wilderness, but not hunting.

It isn't about safety, and it isn't about search and rescue. It is about protecting the guiding industry. I am glad there are guides out there, and I would hope inexperienced mountain hunters would utilize them for the sake of increased success and increased safety.

However, there are plenty of experienced backcountry hunters from all sorts of areas that are either experienced, or self-educated enough to safely and successfully hunt in the Wyoming Wilderness on their own. Thousands of them do just that in Montana, Idaho, and Colorado every year.

I work very closely with search and rescue in my area, and overdue hunters are a VERY common call. While backcountry inexperience is a common factor in those calls, state of residency is not, in my experience.

I happen to be heading out this weekend into one of the thickest concentrations of grizzly bears in the lower 48, and couldn't be more excited about it.

Good luck to all, and I am glad that while we couldn't agree on these points, we could remain civil.

In God We Trust
10-18-2012, 05:11 PM
This in the end is the same situation as land owner vouchers here in Colorado and other crooked back door deals state Game and Fish agencies do all of the time. It is always about protecting a special interest whether it be land owners or outfitters. Funny though these things never seem to benefit the average DIY hunter. These rules are passed to pad the pockets of certain groups and hurt us. There is no way to justify this, all of these things should be voted on by every person that has purchased a tag in said state in the last 5 years and lets see how many of these regs are upheld or hold water. Are you going to tell me the guy that back packs in along the Arizona/Mexico border faces less danger from drug cartels than a guy around bears in Wyoming? Maybe we should mandate all of those hunters in Arizona be accompanied by a Border Patrol Agent. I say enough of the B.S and more common sense.

Edelweiss
10-18-2012, 05:53 PM
As I stated before it is part of Wyoming's legislation and not going to be undone. It's actually been brought to court, like someone else noted before.

Bitterroot, what I love about this forum more than any other is that it is always a civil place.

In the end I am not a Wyoming resident today, and I might not get a job in a year back in Wyoming when I retire from the military. But I'll be able to hunt the wilderness as my father is a life long resident of Wyoming.

I hope I can find a job in Wyoming for my 2nd life. Our kids are too young to deal with us moving back to Alaska and living someplace remote. I wouldn't cry about Montana or northern Idaho either. And since I graduated from high school in Deer Lodge almost 20 years ago, Montana is still a 2nd home to me.

Wilderness horseback elk hunting is what elk hunting is all about. Using a 4 wheeler has always taken a lot away from elk hunting. I have done it, and I am sure with my father going up in years I'll do it again.

I wish guys like you, that live in Montana could hunt Wyoming's wilderness without the BS. But we both know it's probably never going to happen.

Colorado Cowboy
10-18-2012, 06:46 PM
Wilderness horseback elk hunting is what elk hunting is all about. Using a 4 wheeler has always taken a lot away from elk hunting. I have done it, and I am sure with my father going up in years I'll do it again.

I wish guys like you, that live in Montana could hunt Wyoming's wilderness without the BS. But we both know it's probably never going to happen.

I've only hunted it once, last year. It is really awsome country. Went to Thorofare, 33 mile & 9 1/2 hours by horse to get to camp. Unfortunately the hunting has really gone downhill since the introduction of the wolves in the park. Probably won't go there again as I am 71 years old now. It is said it is the most remote place in the lower 48, furthest from roads and towns. I am thankful I got to go and yes (really meant no), could not have done it without an outfitter.

mntnguide
10-18-2012, 10:21 PM
Blue dunn- Im a little confused why you keep seeming to refer to the guides and outfitters of not being residents of the state? Its true a guide does not have to be a resident, but i know guides that have been here for over 15 years that dont hold residency because they return somewhere else in the winter. As for the outfitter, If you can find an outfitter that makes a living in the western wyoming wilderness and does not live here, I would be interested to see who it is, and as a hunter I would probably not go with them. Just my thoughts. The outfit i work for has had their camp in the wilderness for over 80 years in the same spot, all guides are residents, and many outfits around us are the same. . just wondering where the mississippi comment comes from? otherwise i will be heading back to camp early A.M. tomorrow so if someone expects a response from myself i will not be around for the next 10 days or so. Happy hunting to all. I also agree with an above post, Its great to have a forum that people dont violently go after one another and instead can hold a decent conversation even if the view points are different.

bluedunn0
10-19-2012, 06:40 AM
Have a good ten days mntnguide. Be safe

Colorado Cowboy
10-19-2012, 07:36 AM
Blue dunn- As for the outfitter, If you can find an outfitter that makes a living in the western wyoming wilderness and does not live here, I would be interested to see who it is,

I definately don't know very many, but I do know one who is not a resident....Jeff krueger BG345 who owns Wyoming Expeditions and hunts in the Thorofare area. He lives in Georgia.

birdhunter
10-19-2012, 08:15 AM
If you go to the Wyoming guides and outfitters assoc. paige, you will find that there are actually quite a few outfitters that are nonresidents. About half of them outfit the western side of the state in the wilderness areas.

canvsbk
10-19-2012, 09:21 AM
An interesting discussion to follow and I would also be among the non residents who are offended when seen as not capable to survive in a wilderness environment. I would have to call BS on that one. This law is money driven no doubt and I guess it's Wyomings right to make the laws that they feel work best for their state. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
As far as the danger part goes, the FBI has once again declared the Flint to Detroit corridor as the most dangerous place in the United States. (Electric fences don't work there either, but nobody want's to go there anyway) A guide before you enter is highly recommended .......

SprintNShoot7
10-19-2012, 10:55 AM
The rule probably is about protecting the outfitters, and it probably won't change. Some of the outfitters have been hunting their area for decades. That being said you can still find back country hunting in Wyoming without having to be in the wilderness.

Kevin Root
10-19-2012, 11:01 AM
I'd be more in favor of having strict food and game storage guidelines enforced and or a online class bear safety certification process option added rather than limiting it to just a mandatory guide guideline to hunt in Wyoming's Wilderness public lands. I'm not trying to make a dig at Wyoming, it is an awesome state but the mandatory guide rule to hunt Wyoming's public land wilderness areas does seem to be perhaps made for the protection of the guide industry more than for the protection of the public and their wildlife. I just don't want to see the "do it yourself option" to hunt on public land go away is my biggest fear.

There are inherent risks when one enters a wilderness. Everyone, hunters and non hunters alike that enter into the wilderness share those inherent risks. Bear attacks have a lot of variables, but for the most part I think they are due to increasing bear density to human ratios, bears getting surprised, reacting and protecting cubs and the bears loosing their fear of humans and seeing humans as possible food sources.

I'm sure we will learn in the future more on what works with hunting alongside with Grizzly bears and what does not work well as time goes by. Wyoming along with it's Game and Fish department decides ultimately how best to manage it's game in their states wilderness lands and I respect their decisions.

I'm thankful for this forum and for those folks on here. I find folks here to be respectful, helpful, encouraging and I've learned a lot reading the posts and threads here.

I'm also thankful we have a bit better advancement and innovation in transporting, tranquilizing and learning about Grizzly bears. I'm not sure I'd want to try these 1969 techniques. :eek: Happy trails everyone!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TI1i8Py8PA&playnext=1&list=PLD4A7ADBBD4B476E8&feature=results_video

sjsmallfield
10-19-2012, 07:05 PM
Wow!!! And they say humans are the smartest species? Thanks for sharing Kevin.

Wyoflightmedic
10-20-2012, 11:35 PM
I remember being told that the rule was made when Rockefeller donated land to feds. I have been researching for reason but have not found anything yet.

Colorado Cowboy
10-21-2012, 08:07 AM
I remember being told that the rule was made when Rockefeller donated land to feds. I have been researching for reason but have not found anything yet.

Sounds a little strange to me. Why would the state come up with a law when the land was donated to the feds?

Edelweiss
10-21-2012, 07:22 PM
Sounds a little strange to me. Why would the state come up with a law when the land was donated to the feds?

I think it happened during the same time frame in the 1960s. Not that the two are mutually related.

Rockafellers dropped a lot of coin in Wyoming that's for sure.

Z Barebow
11-05-2012, 01:06 PM
This law has and still does chap my hide. But I have moved on as possible and live within the law. I try and find areas that offer the wilderness experience w/o the designated wilderness classification.

It is about money. I have hunted one of the largest widerness in lower 48 (Gila). Obviously no grizz, but SAR would be an issue. I could hunt Bob Marshall, Frank Church, or River of No Return and other numerous/tough locations. Do grizzlies recognize wilderness borders in WYO and stay within to not encounter NR hunters? Of course not. Yes the greatest # of grizz are within boundaries, but are there grizz in areas without wilderness classification????? (Of course there are!)

It is very difficult to discern the difference between grizzly crap containing remains of Resident vs NR! LOL! Last time I checked, stupidity is legal in all 50 states.

There is a group who is petitioning to have the Rock Creek area (Bighorns) for designated wilderness classification. There are no grizz there. Same argument (RE grizz) does not apply? Should the same limitations apply if they are successful????

If it were not about money, the state would enact qualifications/certifications which would allow an NR to hunt in wilderness w/o a guide. EX A certified widerness survival course, a orientation on co-existing in grizz bear country, etc. And you know, I would even PAY to take those courses. Will it happen? No.

It comes down to a states rights issue for me. States have authority and a say on lands within their borders. (Even if they are federal lands) States can require you to have a hunter safety certificate. (Although they do not discriminate between R or NR). States can (And should) charge more for NR licenses. This is the way WYO runs within their state and it is their right to do so. Do I have to agree with it? No.

Edelweiss
11-05-2012, 02:32 PM
Actually there are several areas in Wyoming that are up for possible wilderness protection. There is another between Moose and Dubois.

States rights are a wonderful thing if you are a resident, and can be a pain in the ass if you are not.

HuntWYODon
11-13-2012, 10:29 PM
mtnguide,

I guess I don't understand the argument.

Girzzly bears in Wyoming Wilderness areas are more dangerous than those in other states? or outside the wilderness boundary?

They are only dangerous to hunters, but not hikers, photographers, miners, or fisherman?

I am quite comfortable hunting in Grizzly country myself, and I fully understand the risks of any wilderness activity. I don't think I need a guide to tell me how to deal with bears ... or moose ... or windstorms ... or lightning ... or steep slopes ... or flash floods ... or homicidal maniacs ... or any other number of dangers in the wild.

I have no problem paying extra for out of state tags, or giving residents preference on draws, but arbitrarily nixing public wilderness from non-res hunters for the protection of an industry just doesn't sit well with me.

Bitteroot,
I couldn't of said it any better. Has bothered me for the last 30 yrs.. National Forest is Federal public land. Not Wyoming state land. Why should Wyoming be able to tell you that you can't hunt Federal land ? The Outfitter lobby/$$$ for state is the main reason. There are grizzlies in Mt.,Id. and Wa. also. Don't see the same laws there. This is my 30th yr. in a row hunting Wy. and 15th yr. in a row hunting Cody area. I've seen and learned enough about grizzlies. I have a friend who has lived on the South Fork for 30 yrs. and he can tell you stories about grizzlies all night long. He walks right by them but doesn't look at them or bother them. Mtn. lion's kill deer in his front yard and he fears them more. Now he deals with wolves from time to time.Way too many and way too brave are the grizzlies from not being hunted for the last 43 yrs. or so. Common sense usually prevails.
Jen, you are lucky not having to deal with grizzlies in the Bighorns !

Edelweiss
11-13-2012, 11:45 PM
We are a Republic, and the states have rights.

Wyoming's law has been challenged in court and found to be valid.

I think we are just lucky the rest of the USA doesn't follow a similar suit.

As hopefully a future Wyoming resident elk hunter, I hope to get back to hunting the Shoshone as a resident a horseback like I did when I was a kid.

Best part is I won't be sharing that experience with many.

I would think someone in California could understand why it is nice to not have 10,000 extra orange hats on the hill in the wilderness.

Edelweiss
11-13-2012, 11:46 PM
I like the law, but I think it is unfair.

But I am really happy the states have rights, and your state can't invalidate Wyoming's sovergnty.