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waddy
10-25-2012, 11:20 AM
I see on the numerous (and sometimes questionable) hunting shows on TV where the animal is shot while standing still, and when hit the hind legs suck up underneath, the animal falls heavily in its tracks, and expires with hardly a wiggle. Now I have made a lot of shots on animals in the past, and seen many more made. I don't recall this ever happening with a heart/lung shot. Does anyone know if these are spine shots purposely made (that is a pretty small target to be able to hit reliably) to make it look better for TV? Just an old hunter wondering.

Eberle
10-25-2012, 11:52 AM
Waddy,

I've seen the same thing on tv. I've shot maybe two whitetails in the lungs that have dropped in their tracks. I would say 95%+ usually run off that I've shot through the lungs. Every deer I've shot in the neck has dropped in his tracks! It is amazing what editors can do with video footage these days. I've got a friend that produces Jimmy Houston Outdoors & Full Draw Adventures. It is crazy what they can edit & fix!

tdub24
10-25-2012, 11:54 AM
IMO, I think they are using huge caliber rifles and it just blows the heart/lungs up dropping the animal in its tracks. For example, using a 300 mag on a deer at 200 yards is going to cause lots of damage. At the same time, you might have something with the spine shot theory. I too have never had an animal drop in its tracks, but have seen my Pop make a neck shot that killed the deer instantly.

NorthT
10-25-2012, 12:07 PM
Ive seen a few whitetails dropped with lung/heart shot with 7mag in the last couple of years. Never really thought about it that much. I kinda rather see them run myself, then follow the red stained road to me pot of meat ha.

Colorado Cowboy
10-25-2012, 12:25 PM
I have shot somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 deer and probably as many antelope. They are not all the same. I've shot lots of deer thru the lungs/heart and lots of them have dropped immediately, lots havn't. Antelope are very different. Most of the ones I've shot go down very quickly, maybe a step or 2. I shoot a 25-06 with a 117 gr Sierra bullet....not overkill. I remember my Dad shooting a little forky in the costal range in Calif that probably didn't weigh 120# live weight. Shot him with a 30-06 at about 100 yards thru the lungs. He ran off without even showing signs of being hit. We found a handful of lung tissue on the ground. Found hin about 200yards away stone dead. They are not all the same!!

Larger game like elk are another story.

dcannon
10-25-2012, 12:59 PM
I have a friend who has guided for several tv shows. They film the animal dying, then reenact the shot to give the appearance of 1 shot, drop dead kills.

Murdy
10-25-2012, 01:18 PM
IMO, I think they are using huge caliber rifles and it just blows the heart/lungs up dropping the animal in its tracks. For example, using a 300 mag on a deer at 200 yards is going to cause lots of damage. At the same time, you might have something with the spine shot theory. I too have never had an animal drop in its tracks, but have seen my Pop make a neck shot that killed the deer instantly.
Agreed, I've had whitetails go down right now when hit with the .50 cal muzzleloader.

Fink
10-25-2012, 01:23 PM
Every deer I've ever shot with a gun was hit in essentially the same spot, right through the center of the lungs. I don't aim low for the heart, and I don't shoot for the shoulders. I've killed all my deer with a .270, and have never dropped one in his tracks. My deer go anywhere from 10 yards to about 75 before they pile up.

I think alot of the instant pile ups have to do with bullets that deliver a more devastaing impact, instead of just poking a hole through the animal. I switched to Barnes ttsx's this year, I'll let you know if I dump one in his tracks in about 2 weeks.

Timberstalker
10-25-2012, 01:53 PM
I have been using my 25-06 for over thirty years now. When I started @ 12 years old my dad said "shot them in the heart/lungs" so thats what I did for the first few years and they always ran off. As I grew up and gained confidence I started shooting spine or neck, if I have time and had a good rest, No more running off. Elk, same thing just use .300 win mag. If I don't have a good rest and proper time I will always take the heart lung shot. In thirty+ years I have had one deer get up after the shot and run off never to be found, I have recovered every other animal I have shot, over 25 deer and only 5 elk. "IF" I take a second shot is taken it's usually not needed, or I miss, I believe the first shot is the best shot. There has been may animals walk away without the trigger being squeezed that I know I could have hit, but I don't shoot unless I believe the first shot is a kill shot.

Vanish
10-25-2012, 01:57 PM
Everything I shoot runs for a bit. Everything my wife shoots falls in its tracks.

Wish I could figure out what makes the difference as we're both shooting .270s!

waddy
10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
I definitely agree that "they aren't all the same". I just thought maybe I could get everyone thinking about those shots while watching the programs. The ones I am talking about are very characteristic, i.e., that tell-tale sign where the hind legs instantly suck right up to the belly, and the head is thrown back as the butt hits the ground. I may very well be wrong (my wife will certainly attest to that!), but to me that is a classic spine shot. Please help me watch and see if anyone can come to a consensus. Not that it really matters, except for the fact that when trying to duplicate that instaneous kill shot, it can cause the inexperienced to go for the "bigger gun next year" syndrome until finally they are too afraid to even shoot the thing enough to sight it in. If they do shoot it, they flinch so bad they have difficulty keeping the hits in 12 inches at 100 yards. I'm sure not saying there are not those who are capable of shooting the big ones, and shooting them VERY well! Usually it is the ones with not much experience who blew a hind leg off last year and were told or decided the answer was a "bigger gun". I see this syndrome continually at our annual Sportsman's Club Hunter Sight-In days.

Oops, sorry, I got off on a rant. I'm still just curious about that particular kill shot. Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

Timberstalker
10-25-2012, 02:04 PM
I did shoot one Blacktail buck right through the lungs that just tipped over and laid on his back with all 4 legs pointing to the sky. I shot it with my 25-06 with 100 gr rem Core-lokt @ abot 30 yrds, it was wierd!

Sawfish
10-25-2012, 02:24 PM
I have shot two deer that were flipped over on their back with all 4 legs pointing skyward. The first was a spike Whitetail in Louisiana that I shot with a Ruger 44 Carbine. His head hit the ground so hard it drove the spikes all the way into the swamp mud. Scared the hell out of me, as I thought it was a doe, until I pulled the spokes out of the mud. The second was a Colorado Muley that I shot with a .358 Norma Magnum (we were also hunting elk).

Last week I shot a Blacktail with a 30/06 Handgun. He was facing me at a slight angle angle. The bullet entered the right chest, went through the lungs, and exited the rear of of the left shoulder. He hit the ground like he was pole axed, and never moved. x 3 on "not all the same".

llp
10-25-2012, 02:24 PM
The only way an animal will drop at the shot is if the central nervous system (CNS) is disrupted. A shot to the spine or brain obviously disrupts the CNS. A shot through the lungs rarely disrupts the CNS - However, no two animals and no two bullets perform identically. Sometimes a seemingly perfect lung shot disrupts the CNS due to "shock", but even more likely the bullet fragmented or a rib bone was sent into the CNS, causing the same disruption as a spine shot. It is relatively difficult to make head and spine shots for the average hunter under field condition. That is why heart lung shots are preferred. There is nothing wrong with the animal running a little after the shot, at least in most situations. A bigger gun through the heart/lungs won't generally increase CNS disruption, and won't ensure they drop at the shot. I've seen small deer shot with a 375 H&H run a bit after the shot. They are effectively dead on their feet, but without interfereing witht he CNS they still run.
llp

llp
10-25-2012, 02:29 PM
Conversely, I shot 4 deer and antelope this year under controlled conditions with head shots from a .243. Needless to say they all dropped at the shot, and it is amazing how effective the little 243 is at emptying the brain pan. These were cull hunts, and shot selection was chosen specifically to avoid any meat damage, and ranges were short to moderate. Don't expect an animal to ever drop at the shot with a traditional heart lung shot, and don't worry if they run a bit. They are still dead and you will have your trophy shortly.
llp

Timberstalker
10-25-2012, 02:58 PM
Any neck or spine shot I make is less than 75 yrds, most animals I have taken are under 100.

HuntWYODon
10-25-2012, 04:07 PM
I always aim for front shoulder. Bust at least one shoulder and takes out lungs. I've had many deer drop in their tracks doing this when I have a broadside shot. I've had a couple elk do the same and many anteope. I've always used a Rem 7 mag and for last 8 yrs. a Rem 300 Ultra Mag. With Barnes TSX or TTSX on deer and lope's, sometimes bust both shoulders. I bet if you watch in shows, the ones that go down on the spot were hit in shoulder or spine. I bet 1/3 of 60 plus bucks (deer) I've shot dropped on the spot. I don't want then to suffer if possible and no need to track.

HuntWYODon
10-25-2012, 04:11 PM
I have shot two deer that were flipped over on their back with all 4 legs pointing skyward. The first was a spike Whitetail in Louisiana that I shot with a Ruger 44 Carbine. His head hit the ground so hard it drove the spikes all the way into the swamp mud. Scared the hell out of me, as I thought it was a doe, until I pulled the spokes out of the mud. The second was a Colorado Muley that I shot with a .358 Norma Magnum (we were also hunting elk).

Last week I shot a Blacktail with a 30/06 Handgun. He was facing me at a slight angle angle. The bullet entered the right chest, went through the lungs, and exited the rear of of the left shoulder. He hit the ground like he was pole axed, and never moved. x 3 on "not all the same".

Hey Saw, did it bust a shoulder ? Bet it did and that's why he dropped. I shot a white buck back in 1986 that flipped over backward like that. I don't remember exactly where the bullet hit but I was aiming for chest like normal.

Edelweiss
10-25-2012, 05:53 PM
I love the concept of the gobsmacked animal, but I am not into shooting them in the neck or spine.

Sometimes they run closer to the road anyway? ;)

Fink
10-25-2012, 06:02 PM
Sometimes they run closer to the road anyway? ;)

I wish... Mine always run downhill, away from the truck, through a briar patch, and into a creek bottom.

ivorytip
10-25-2012, 06:12 PM
2 years ago i was hunting cow elk with a .338, a cow caught me off gaurd at 20 yards away and lets just say she dropped hard and fast. ive only had one deer and elk drop with my.270 right away the elk was a shoulder lung shot with 150g this year and a deer last year with 130g same style of shot. both only close to 100yrd out. i think another big diff in this is iff they are alert and excited or have no idea u r there. when they get hit not knowing somethings up i think the adrenalin hasnt had a chance to keep them goin.... idk just an idea. good topic

Kevin Root
10-25-2012, 06:26 PM
I've had some drop right in their tracks and some not like many have written here. None have spine or head shots on any of my quick drops.

I'm trying to figure out a way to have them follow me to my vehicle and then drop to help me in the pack out but perhaps that's another post topic.

dying to kill
10-25-2012, 09:33 PM
i agree fink i shoot berger bullets wich start to fragment directly after impact some like this some dont, either way berger advertises this bullet does this and thats one reason i shoot it , it causes much more damage this way in my opinion, also some of the newer "wild cat calibers" shoot 4000fps+ wich when a bullet enters a body cavity at this kind of speed can cause extreme super shock on a animal, usualy dropping in its tracks
Every deer I've ever shot with a gun was hit in essentially the same spot, right through the center of the lungs. I don't aim low for the heart, and I don't shoot for the shoulders. I've killed all my deer with a .270, and have never dropped one in his tracks. My deer go anywhere from 10 yards to about 75 before they pile up.

I think alot of the instant pile ups have to do with bullets that deliver a more devastaing impact, instead of just poking a hole through the animal. I switched to Barnes ttsx's this year, I'll let you know if I dump one in his tracks in about 2 weeks.

dying to kill
10-25-2012, 09:34 PM
lol good one, let me know how that goes
I've had some drop right in their tracks and some not like many have written here. None have spine or head shots on any of my quick drops.

I'm trying to figure out a way to have them follow me to my vehicle and then drop to help me in the pack out but perhaps that's another post topic.

squirrelduster
10-25-2012, 09:45 PM
I have shot several whitetail with a 300 win mag in the lungs at close range, less than 100 yards, none have been excited before the shot and none have dropped. Shot a 72 lb blacktail with the same gun at almost 400 yards laying down and he went almost a hundred yards with no heart and one lung destroyed.
Seems to me if you want them to drop you need to shoot for the shoulder or neck. I don't because I don't want to loose all the meat.

Edelweiss
10-26-2012, 03:09 AM
I wish... Mine always run downhill, away from the truck, through a briar patch, and into a creek bottom.

I am sure you are a wonderful human being, but remind me never to hunt elk or moose with you, and especially not bison, elephants or rhino.

That's bad luck!

ivorytip
10-26-2012, 07:39 AM
300 mag at less than 100 and it didnt turn them inside out and drop them? wow.

Old Hunter
10-26-2012, 10:16 AM
Misleading title. You're asking about a DRT, not one shot kills. 99% of mine have been one shot kills, but maybe only 25% have been a DRT. I don't shoot big magnums. Hell, I don't even shoot a caliber most would even call and elk caliber. (30-30) It's never failed me though.

I never quite understood why I could stop an elk in it's tracks with the same shot placement and gun, and next one will run.

Bitterroot Bulls
10-26-2012, 10:34 AM
I agree totally on CNS damage being the cause of DRT kills. It is my belief this is usually due to bullet or bone fragments damaging the CNS. I will take high shoulder shots to minimize their ability to travel far. Sometimes these shots lead to DRT kills because there are a lot of bullet and bone fragments that can hit the CNS.

On my moose this year, first shot was center mass double lung, which he soaked up without much trouble. I didn't want him running, so shot #2 was high shoulder, which caused him to stumble, but he stood back up on muscle power alone (no damage to CNS). third shot was lung/heart quartering. He soaked that one up too, but tipped over shortly after. Some critters are just tougher than others, but if the CNS goes out, so do they.

I prefer to keep shooting until they go down, to allow for a quicker kill, and shorter recovery.

ivorytip
10-26-2012, 12:51 PM
old timer... what model is ur 30-30? i love those guns and have dropped many of elk with my old one. dont see to many people out hunting with those any more allways neat knowing people are still throwing thier faith into this well deserved cal. and BB, amen to that. when you are way back in with thick crap everywhich way gotta make sure you shoot till that thing is down.

Old Hunter
10-26-2012, 02:00 PM
My dad got me a Winchester 94 for Christmas in 1952. It's got more elk and mule deer kills than I could ever remember. It's still going strong. A 170 gr partition puts the smack on anything it hits. Perfect gun for still hunting the timber. I never felt a need for more gun.

Good to see another 30-30 fan.

waddy
10-26-2012, 02:33 PM
Misleading title. You're asking about a DRT, not one shot kills. 99% of mine have been one shot kills, but maybe only 25% have been a DRT. I don't shoot big magnums. Hell, I don't even shoot a caliber most would even call and elk caliber. (30-30) It's never failed me though.

I never quite understood why I could stop an elk in it's tracks with the same shot placement and gun, and next one will run.

OK, I give up, what the heck is a DRT? (I hate acronyms)

Shot my first buck with the old 1894 Winchester 30-30, and many more deer and elk after that. It still does the job and still remains king of the deer slayers.

Bitterroot Bulls
10-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Dead Right There

MSUcat61
10-26-2012, 05:52 PM
I remember reading an article about shooting at the top third of the vitals instead of the bottom third. You're still shooting the through the lungs, but the shock from the bullet could shock the CNS simply by approximation. It's not a spine shot but energy from the bullet could at least stun the spinal cord without physically hitting it and thus give a DRT shot. This seems safe as even if the animal doesn't drop right there, you still made perfectly good vital shot which should kill it anyways. This obviously isn't advisable for bowhunting, but perfectly reasonable for the rifle hunter. So to the original poster, I think this could be what is happening.

And like everyone else is saying, they're all different. My first elk dropped in his tracks and my dad couldn't believe it because he said he'd never seen it happen. But then again I once thought I was shooting blanks at a bull 'til he just tipped over. Hit him all five times but it didn't even look like he noticed I was even shooting.

Ikeepitcold
10-26-2012, 06:48 PM
These shot are high shoulder shots. Breaks the spine and hits both lungs if done properly. The spine is broken wich causes the legs to buckle and the lungs is what kills the animal while laying there. I've done this a few times myself. 7mm to me is not a huge caliber and that is way I shoot mostly. The high shoulder shot is a great place to shoot a animal IMO. If your to high with your shot you will shoot over top of the animal, if the wind is blowing left to right the chances of a bad shot is less because the bullet can travel much further to the middle of the animal and still hit the lungs unlike if you were aiming at behind the shoulder and the bullet travels more to the middle of the animal you would hit the guts. If the bullet travels to the front of the animal you will hit the neck also dropping the animal. If its low there is a ton of travel for the bullet still to hit lungs. I like them all as long as the animal doesn't suffer. I choose we're I'm aiming by the situation I'm in and how the animal is standing.

xtreme
10-26-2012, 08:40 PM
Just got a surprise before dark. I shot a doe that was facing me with the black powder gun at about fifty yards. The bullet went through the center of the liver and exited the left ribcage about mid deer, still the deer ran 50-75 yards. On the broadside shots I expect them to run 50 to 125 yard because I only shoot behind the front legs. Next week I will be in unit 67 Colorado using 168 grain Bergers in the 7mm. If I get a shot with the Berger I dont expect a tracking job. If hunting the Aspens I will probably use the Remington Core-Lokts for less meat damage.

anglinarcher
11-05-2012, 10:08 AM
Every deer I've ever shot with a gun was hit in essentially the same spot, right through the center of the lungs. I don't aim low for the heart, and I don't shoot for the shoulders. I've killed all my deer with a .270, and have never dropped one in his tracks. My deer go anywhere from 10 yards to about 75 before they pile up.

I think alot of the instant pile ups have to do with bullets that deliver a more devastaing impact, instead of just poking a hole through the animal. I switched to Barnes ttsx's this year, I'll let you know if I dump one in his tracks in about 2 weeks.

I am curious to hear your results. This was my first year with TSX 130 gr. At 350 yrs, I hit about 6 inches to the left which did hit the very bottom of both shoulders instead of in the crease, but my 270 sent the 130 gr pill straight through and left a hole a little bigger than a quarter on the way out. The little buck may have gone 30 yrds, mainly because he skidded down hill.

Pretty happy with the performance of the barnes on this animal, Even though I did hit meat I wasn't mangled and blood shot from the precusion.

Grizz
11-05-2012, 11:11 AM
Interesting stuff here guys. I've shot deer, antelope, and elk with everything from a .22 Hornet (only deer) to a .338-378. And each one has reacted differently. Some run, others collapse, some flip over and flop... one thing that I can say for sure about most of the hunting shows where you are seeing instant DRT's (dead right there's) is that most of those guys shoot to break an animal down via crushing major skeletal forms (shoulders) and nervous system centers (spinal cord). For two reasons; one, it ensures recovery of the animal and two, it makes for great T.V. when an animal is killed instantly. Many people do not understand that when a heart/lung shot animal runs off that it is dead on its feet. They assume it is suffering and not in a state of deep shock. Therefore, killing an animal instantly is appealing to both the hunting and non-hunting public.

However, the question remains, how is this done? This can be easily accomplished via a high shoulder shot that strikes the animal on the point of the shoulder two-thirds up the body. A hit from any high velocity, well constructed, caliber appropriate, bullet in this region on ANY mammal will drop them instantly with thier feet tucked and rear hitting the ground followed by their head hitting, Hard! This method works on any and all animals for the simple reason that the bullet is destroying three vital systems; skeletal, nervous, and circulatory all at the same time. The shot placement formula listed above comes from a combination of years of practicing it after reading and watching how to do it from African and North American Writers that span Capstick and Keith to O'Connor and Boddington.

When shot through the ribs behind the shoulder and under the spinal cord an ungulate or predator is being struck in only one vital system, circulatory. Therefore, it does not matter how large the caliber is, there is a high probablity that the animal will "run off" and die. I say that caliber does not matter, assuming one is using a game appropriate caliber (deer/antelope .25-06 - 300, elk/moose 270-375) because a bullet at high velocity that does not break bone and relies and soft tissue devastation via hydro-static shock alone rips through an animal at hundreds if not thousands of feet per second and therefore as is quite often the case as I have experienced on deer sized game, the larger the round the less tissue damage there is and the greater the chance the animal will "run off." I have seen this numerous times when killing deer and antelope with my various .300's, .338's, and big bore lever guns, not that these are not great all around game cartridges because they are, however, they do seem to perform better on game that provides a more substantial body mass (elk/moose/bears) for the bullet to dump it kinetic energy into via expansion and velocity loss. With that said, I've experienced more DRT kills on deer sized game with my .257's, 270's, and non-magnum 30's than with any of my super fast, "HUGE" rounds like my .338-378 or .300 RUM. Unless! I break them down as written about above OR, and here it comes... I am using a fragile and therefore bullet designed for maximum soft tissue destruction. For example, the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Hornady SST, or any of the billed "Varmint Bullets." All of these expand very rapidly and dump massive amounts of energy into a small space and therefore "shock" an animal's nervous system without breaking it down. The arguments for and against these bullets is long and storied but the point is that when kept away from heavy muscle or bone they kill very quickly and cleanly. They are simply not designed to break an animal down by breaking bone though they will do it at proper velocities.

I think we could all take a lesson from the T.V. guys on this one. While there is nothing wrong with shooting for the lungs due to its being a large target and 99.99999999% effective at killing game and therefore, widely and rightly practiced there is a strong argument for breaking animals down by crushing and destroying all three vital systems with one bullet. This is expecially true with dangerous game or in situations where game cannot be allowed to run, e.g. fences, cliffs, water, etc. All hunting situations are different and each calls for specific determinations of shot angles and placement but I for one will continue to shoot "high shoulder" and watch 'em drop hard!

Shoot straight brothers and sisters.

Elk Hunter
11-08-2012, 11:21 PM
I have taken five elk and all of them fell were they stood. The first was at 285 yards, one at 125 yards, and the others have been under 40 yards. Last years bull was at 20 feet. The bullet didn't have time to expand on that one so he was still standing after the shot. I was a little concerned, didn't want to have to track him, but he didn't take another step. I aim broadside, low in the chest, intentionally going for the front shoulder. I think it is the shoulder that drops them in their tracks, but it also gets both lungs and the heart. They expire quickly. I don't know how many deer I have taken, but shot this way they also drop in their tracks. I did shoot a deer in the neck once with a 300WM using Nosler Ballistic Tips. Thinking less meat damage that way. Dropped in his tracks. I looked him over, took some pictures, and then took my coat off before I started to fIeld dress him. Its been at least 15 minutes and I was about to turn him over to start when he started trying to get up. Shot him again and I never tried a neck shot again. I use a 300WM for elk and a 243 for deer.

xtreme
11-09-2012, 07:17 AM
Really good post. I shoot a deer behind the shoulder. The reason? To preserve as much edible meat as possible. My hunting pardner, my brother shoots the shoulder. I am using 7mm 168gr Bergers and my super large Nov4 mule deer walked about ten steps before falling. This was a pass through shot that I was satisfied with, a little surprised it did since it did not pass through the spring bear and the bear never took a step. How sure was I of the shot on the deer? My spotter told me he is trying to get up, I had already switched from gum to knife. Griz post is helpful and points out the need for changes between species and circumstances. I let HSM do my reloading, I can't match their quality. Even better for accuracy is the RWS 177, I will be using that where shorter range is the norm. White tail in Ar.
I also like shooting deer with the 243wssm. The 243wssm is like a 25-06 the hard way, same exact ballistics, but more noise. I do like the speed of the 55gr, 4060fps. I shot a large whitetail buck with the 55gr balistic tip, same exact results, pass through deer dead after 50 yds. I know an elk can keep going on one lung, but none of our game can go far with a hole through its hear or both lungs and it don't have to be large caliber. IMO

waddy
11-10-2012, 10:41 AM
An amazing amount of experience in these posts. I want to especially thank Grizz (post #38) for his very articulate and concise explanation. The post mirrors my experience exactly. If I just want meat, I will go for the rib cage, lung and possibly heart (though I really like eating the heart), missing the shoulders if possible. If the conditions are perfect a high neck or head shot ruins even less meat, but as I said, conditions have to be perfect and I KNOW I can successfully make the shot. Dangerous game or good trophys I will go for the shoulder/spine/lung shot. As for all the new "high performance" bullets which have gotten astronomicaly expensive, I tend to still work mostly with the tried and true bullets that have dispatched game for many years and continue to do so. It is always fun to try the new ones though! Happy hunting.

elks
12-02-2012, 09:52 AM
Wasn't there once a good article/study where they killed off a bunch of buffalo on a private ranch testing the effects of various sized rifles on buffalo. I remember reading where the size of the bullet had little to nothing to do with a DRT shot but it had to do with one of 2 things. They had several rifles and several buffalo to use. THey found that the likely hood of dropping an animal in its tracks was the same across the spectrum of weapons regardless. Basically it required the CNS disrubtion or the other thing I found really interesting is the autopsy showed a significantly higher rate of DRT shot when they animals had just exhalled and the pause between hear beats. I remember it from a while back.

For me shot placement depends on the situation. If I need an animal to drop now then high front shoulders are used (for example my wifes bull was only 80 yards from private this year in 2 directions and 15 yards from a nasty cut wash. So she shot a high front shoulder. That same situation with no wash or private would have went for a typical heart lung shot.

At anyrate, watch the shows and while they show several animals DRT, there are many they look for and also realize that most of those animals are smaller bodied white tails and way more of them.

lostriverproductions
12-13-2012, 02:52 PM
I haven't read through all 5 pages, but most of the DRT shots are a high shoulder hit. Not sure if the shock breaks the spine or not? Have killed 2 whitetail this way in mid west with a muzzloader. Now they droped and kicked just a little, nothing like a strait spine shot.

crumy
12-13-2012, 11:09 PM
Everything I shoot runs for a bit. Everything my wife shoots falls in its tracks.

Wish I could figure out what makes the difference as we're both shooting .270s!

I totally understand. I have shot three cow elk with a 300 and they hunch up and walk a little before dying.. Maybe only 30 yards but still. My wife shot a bull elk this year and it dropped. However.. I am shooting behind the shoulder to not ruin as much meat and she used the high shoulder shot method. (which you see a lot of tv shooters use) It is effective I just don't want to do it with such a large caliber.. But give me a shot at a 6x6 bull and through the shoulder it goes. 8-)