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romo343
11-12-2012, 12:23 PM
Colorado residents .. Does Colorado have to many season? Should something be done to increase the elk herds in most units? I believe that quality of elk and the number of elk in Colorado is extremely poor, would you agree? Please post your thoughts... Also I'm referring to public land. Should OTC tages be done away with. To me, I don't like that everybody and there dog can buy a tag during two seasons in CO. Also, it gets me that any non resident can come in and buy an OTC tag. Should CO be like some other states and do away with 2-3 OTC season, possibly going to a draw only state? Even if it takes 1-3 years to draw a tag, there would be less hunters in the field, and better quality of elk. what are your thoughts?

Doe Nob
11-12-2012, 01:49 PM
No. Highest elk population of any state, many opportunity units. If you want to hunt quality units, buy preference points and hunt a limited entry unit, or first season only, or apply in other states.

Why does it get you that any nonresident can spend $560 for an elk tag they may have a less than 20% chance of filling?

Colorado Cowboy
11-12-2012, 02:00 PM
Actually I like it the way it is. It spreads the hunters out over the seasons and allows you to hunt the kind of weather you like. The only thing I would change is have the OTC tags limited and let everyone buy them over the internet and buy mail until a certain number is sold. Thats the wat they do the leftover tags.

romo343
11-12-2012, 02:02 PM
It gets me because it seems like CO and the DOW here is more for the money then anything else. Also, why would a non res want to spend that much for just a 20% chance of filling their tag. You can argue they come for the experience, and to get away, but I'd rather see less hunters in the field and have a chance of getting something and not having it spooked by others is the field (not just non res, res as well). Also, I do apply for other tags in other states, for this reason alone; I'd rather hunt other states because of the quality of elk that they have. Another thing is, I do hunt First season in CO.
My biggest complaint is that the elk population isn't what they say it is. Yes there are a lot of elk in CO, but certain units that 10 years ago had a high number of elk and better quality elk do not anymore. I used to go to a certain spot in the mountains where cows calve in the early summer, and I'd see 500-800 elk in this spot. This last July I went and say 60. It's a problem, and the DOW in CO doesn't want to own up to it.
Also, I know that non residents will be offened by this post because it is so easy for them to get a tag in CO, and they do not want to lose that chance. But in my opinion I think CO should have more caps on there tags, and do away with some seasons, and become more like other states.

Darktimber
11-12-2012, 02:30 PM
Colorado for the most part is doing it right. We have a huge elk population and with the exception of a few units has always been managed for quantity, not quality. As far as money goes, I am glad the division is getting the money it does from otc licenses. Why in the heck would you want to go down the route of any of the other states? Have you seen how long residents in most of the states have to wait to hunt their own backyard? How about the rate increases that they are charging to try and make up for costs. Heck Wyoming is getting ready to double theirs because they're broke. I personally have not gone into a unit in CO where I could not find elk and usually lots of them. If I was to recommend one change, it would be to maybe make 2-3 more units LE just to take some pressure off the LE units we have. Just not quite enough LE units IMO. Other than that, keep it where it is at. Let the pumpkin army have its fun, spend their money, and help out our economy.

romo343
11-12-2012, 02:39 PM
Thank you for your comments DarkTimber, you make some really good points. I appreciate that. I would agree with you on some of your points. As I said before, I am not saying do away with non res tags, what I am saying is limit them more. Also you talk about quantity. I like this. This is what i'm referring too the most. I guess I should clearify something, and again I'm not talking about all units in Colorado, Talking more in south central CO. I am just wondering have you hunted in southern CO? Also, as said before, I'm not saying tons of things need to me changed. Maybe eliminating 2-3 OTC tags would be two drastic of a change. But would limiting 2-3 season tags to draw only like 1st and 4th season be a better solution? I just believe that CO has more to offer and could do better. Also, I should not say the DOW does nothing, they do a good job in CO and I know it could be worse, but think it could go down hill if things contiue the way they are (in the long run).

Darktimber
11-12-2012, 04:41 PM
I hunt mainly southwestern colorado. That is where I spend most of my time. As far as putting a quota on the tags, I really don't know if it would work. Most of the units are still over objective in elk population. The problem is people can't get to them. A lot of access and easements have been closed, causing a lot of landlocked blm. A lot of the elk have learned the hidey holes and clear out of the NF. So the kill percentage stays low in a lot of the units but the elk population high. They need to focus on getting access back to the lower blm winter areas to. Would help get the population back to objective. That would also bring the overall quality up.

BKC
11-12-2012, 05:57 PM
Enrollment at our major colleges in colorado are down but out of staters enrollment is up and that is fine because the colleges still make ends meet with the out of state tuition. It is no different with the DOW and out of state hunters. I don't mind them coming here and hunting because it keeps the in state tags way less expensive and they are only killing AT MOST 20% of the total animals. I will put up with the way the dow issues tags and the number of tags because I still think that you can get a good experience hunting deer/elk/antelope, etc... in this state if you know what your doing. If you don't know what your doing, then I guess it is easy to complain about out of staters and the dow management of units. Hunting is not suppose to be easy!

dying to kill
11-12-2012, 06:23 PM
that doesnt count the bazillion dollars in fuel to get to the big state
No. Highest elk population of any state, many opportunity units. If you want to hunt quality units, buy preference points and hunt a limited entry unit, or first season only, or apply in other states.

Why does it get you that any nonresident can spend $560 for an elk tag they may have a less than 20% chance of filling?

dying to kill
11-12-2012, 06:26 PM
ill second that one cc
Actually I like it the way it is. It spreads the hunters out over the seasons and allows you to hunt the kind of weather you like. The only thing I would change is have the OTC tags limited and let everyone buy them over the internet and buy mail until a certain number is sold. Thats the wat they do the leftover tags.

romo343
11-13-2012, 10:10 PM
BKC settle down buddy lol.. you don't even know me and you don't know my hunting stategies. Also, I was just asking for input, I don't need you attacking me as a hunter. I've talked to the DOW in the units i'm referring too and they have agreed and told me that the numbers are down. So i'm not blaming management. And i'm definatly not blaming out of staters. I just don't think tags should be so easy for them to get, specifically OTC. And when did i ever say hunting was supposed to be easy?? I don't recall ever saying that. So if you have something productive to say then add to the conversation, if not stay out of my conversations.

BKC
11-14-2012, 07:54 PM
Romo, Your right after reading my response I was probably to harsh. Sorry. I will agree that there are a lot of out of staters that come and create a crowd and leave with some of our animals. I have hunted in other states, so I guess they feel the same about me so maybe it evens out. I did read some of your comments on another thread about Colorado being the worst trophy state. There was some posts from a guy who said that he had been hunting elk for 14 years and finally wrapped his gun around a tree and gave up since he had never killed anything. This was where my comment that elk hunting is not suppose to be easy came from. A lot depends on skill, luck, area your hunting, etc... I think that overhunting is hard to blame on just out of staters being able to get OTC tags.

wapiti66
11-19-2012, 10:06 PM
I enjoy the OTC opportunities. Every year while I build points in CO and Wy I buy an OTC archery tag in CO as a Nonresident. It allows me a chance to at least go hunt elk. I know CO enjoys my $560 and if they stopped the OTC tags then I'd add another state to apply in and they'd get my money instead of CO. I believe that's how the state looks at the issue and that's why they take the quantity over quality approach on most units. The state understands a certain number of people are going to pick a state to hunt elk in every year and if they make it a guarantee tag (OTC) then they will get most of those hunters and their revenue instead of say Wy or NM.

Old Hunter
11-19-2012, 10:12 PM
I enjoy the OTC opportunities. Every year while I build points in CO and Wy I buy an OTC archery tag in CO as a Nonresident. It allows me a chance to at least go hunt elk. I know CO enjoys my $560 and if they stopped the OTC tags then I'd add another state to apply in and they'd get my money instead of CO. I believe that's how the state looks at the issue and that's why they take the quantity over quality approach on most units. The state understands a certain number of people are going to pick a state to hunt elk in every year and if they make it a guarantee tag (OTC) then they will get most of those hunters and their revenue instead of say Wy or NM.


You don't need OTC tags to hunt every year if you're willing to hunt for cows while you build up points.

elks
12-02-2012, 09:26 AM
So really you should be careful what you wish for... Colorado system has only a couple big flaws.... Ranching(Poaching) for Wildlife and transferable landowner tags. Really the OTC system is great and it is rare to have the opportunity to hunt every year. The elk herds have managed to stay relatively unchanged in this system for years. They are managing numbers based on female animals and not male animals. In any system everyone would love to see more trophy bulls, but what would make everyone happy? 1 300" bull for every 10 cows? Are you willing to give up multiple years of hunting to see this happen. Not to mention the rate increases?

Also just because they go to a limited season does not mean there are going to be fewer hunters? They will sell as many tags as they can and still meet the perceived objectives. The only advantage to a limited draw system is the predictability of hunting numbers and pressure. In an OTC unit it seems like the number of hunters come and go. one year there are few, next year more, then a ton, then few etc. At least in the draw only system it is pretty predictable how many are in a set unit.

I love the CO system. I have shot at least 1 elk every year for the 12, and between my wife and I we have taken 18 elk in 10 years. Of those 2 have been over 300" A couple close to 300, a couple dinks and several cows. While the state wide average for elk hovers around 20% we are well up in the 80+%. I have no problem with the system if I keep having the opportunity to put up such numbers.