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Whisky
11-15-2012, 11:29 AM
Another cartridge thread, I know....

I have a 700 SA lying around and am considering the 284 for a "do all" hunting rifle. I'm looking for a little extra down range energy without going to a magnum (even though the 284 is pretty much a short mag)... I like the looks of that new 7mm 150gr LR Accubond as well.

Anybody hear have any experience with the 284? If so, custom rifle or factory? Any feeding issues? Anything at all you can tell me would be great.

Thanks

AKaviator
11-15-2012, 12:22 PM
Whisky,

My only experience with that cartridge is the necked down version, .25-284. I've never had a failure to feed issue with it. I have a neat little custom mauser, stocked by Jerry Fisher of Montana. It shoots great and is ballistically a 25-06.

Bitterroot Bulls
11-15-2012, 01:17 PM
My uncle hunted elk for over 20 years with a Savage 99 in .284. His face lights up when he talks about that cartridge. He only switched to a Savage bolt 270 to protect his valuable 99.

Due to similar powder capacity with the 30-06 based 280 Rem, the 284 pretty much duplicates the 280's ballistics, but allows for a shorter action.

Great cartridge.

Edelweiss
11-15-2012, 01:51 PM
Only problem with it, and it's kid the 6.5x284 is that a lot of people want to run them hard and fast. By that I mean they like to put VLD bullets in them and they run out of magazine space.

The 150 Accubond shouldn't be a problem though.

You could see if someone could sell you 1 284 case and you could seat the bullets you wanted to use in the case and if they still fit in the action you're set.

Whisky
11-15-2012, 02:06 PM
I have a Wyatts mag box I intend to use. That'll get me to about 2.990" ish. If I was putting together a plinkin rifle in the 284, I'd definitely go long action for the bigger VLDs, utilize all case capacity. But I think, especially with the Wyatts box, in a hunting rifle, I should be good in a SA.... I think...

Whisky
11-15-2012, 02:15 PM
And of course a guy has to put some thought into reamer specs. Get the free bore correct for the intended bullets and max COAL, and that's most of the battle won right there. I made that mistake once, won't do that again...:)

Dummy rounds are a good idea!!

Edelweiss
11-15-2012, 06:02 PM
Whiskey is right, you darn near need a reamer for every bullet combination you plan on doing. Especially in a short action cartridge like that.

BKC
11-15-2012, 07:47 PM
I have a ultra light arms in .284 Melvin Forbes probably makes more .284 than anybody these days. It is semi custom but the big seller is the weight, or lack there of. A great mountain rifle if you keep in mind it is not a magnum.

ThreeTikkas
11-18-2012, 04:38 AM
I currently own and opperate a long action custom M700 in 284 Win. No turn neck with the free bore length to accomodate the 150gr bullet. Seated to the lands the base of the bullet is just flush with the base of the neck of the case. She likes a little contact,but not being jammed in the lands. RL19 is the powder of choice for now. I built her a little too heavy though,and don't enjoy her as much as I had hoped. We used a Shilen #4 24" long and it's more like a light varmint than a big game rifle. I regret it as this was to be my companion rifle for all things. The cartridge stands for itself. Comparable ballistics to any of the other mid / standard length cartridges. Accuracy potential is great in a good barrel and chamber. Mine easily goes 1/2 moa out to 400 yds with hunting bullets. Bedded in a B & C Medalist and topped with a Leupold 6X-18X .

Whisky
11-18-2012, 02:13 PM
I currently own and opperate a long action custom M700 in 284 Win. No turn neck with the free bore length to accomodate the 150gr bullet. Seated to the lands the base of the bullet is just flush with the base of the neck of the case. She likes a little contact,but not being jammed in the lands. RL19 is the powder of choice for now. I built her a little too heavy though,and don't enjoy her as much as I had hoped. We used a Shilen #4 24" long and it's more like a light varmint than a big game rifle. I regret it as this was to be my companion rifle for all things. The cartridge stands for itself. Comparable ballistics to any of the other mid / standard length cartridges. Accuracy potential is great in a good barrel and chamber. Mine easily goes 1/2 moa out to 400 yds with hunting bullets. Bedded in a B & C Medalist and topped with a Leupold 6X-18X .

Good info....Thanks

What is the 150 bullet you're using and the COAL to reach the lands?

Also, your #4 Shilen I believe would be same/similar contour to my Bartlein #3, a heavy sporter. What is the weight of your rifle, scoped and loaded? I'm still looking for that compromise in weight for easy carrying but also still be able to reach out accurately. If you were to do it again, what finished weight would you shoot for?

ThreeTikkas
11-18-2012, 04:39 PM
I can answer most of your questions now,and get the rest tomorrow. The man cave is out beyond the garage along with the safe and notes. I'm currently loading the 150 Nosler Ballistic tip. They claim the #4 is a magnum contour. It's actually heavier than a Remington magnum. It won't lay in a Remington barrel channel,even if the Remington is floated. Pretty stout pipe. If I had it to do again I'd shoot for 8.5 lb field ready. I have weighed all my rigs in the past,but don't want to pass along the wrong number. I'll have to check it and get back with a good weight. I wasn't thinking straight when I ordered the barrel. I knew I would be using the rifle for woodchucks,whitetails and mulies. I was also thinking of the 400yd deer target competitions they hold at a club near here. (printed paper deer targets with vitals. 10X magnification limit. 5 shots timed. No wind flags) Got my wires crossed. I don't get up to the club as often as I use to, and now I have a heavy hunting rig. To me anyway. Camping at 9,000 ft and hunting up to 12,000 for a somewhat upper middle but not quite old age flatlander is tough. I'd appreciate an 8 pounder ALOT more. But that's just my case. Heck 20 years ago I'd grab her and go. I need to pick up a Kimber Montana and save this old girl for stand hunting whitetails out to the ends of the fields. So far she has liked the 140gr Sierra Pro Hunter. The 150gr Ballistic Tip Nosler. Believe it or not,I get good service from the 120gr Nosler BT and Hornady V Max. Woodchuck whacker supreme. I can't reach the lands but they still work quite well. Who woulda guessed? Oh what the heck. There's no Big Bang Theory on tonight. I might as well go get you some more particulars.

ThreeTikkas
11-18-2012, 05:55 PM
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/DWCalls/005-3.jpg

Left to right : 140 gr Sierra Pro Hunter over 56gr of H4350 @ 3.040 C.O.A.L
Next up is the 150gr Nosler over 55gr of RL19 @ 3.110 C.O.A.L
Next is the 120gr V-Max over 51gr of IMR 4320 @ 3.070 C.O.A.L
last is the 120gr Nosler over the same charge of 4320 @ 2.995 C.O.A.L

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/DWCalls/004-2.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/DWCalls/002-3.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/DWCalls/001-5.jpg

A few pics of the 284. 10.2 lbs field ready. Please excuse the pic quality. Could be better.
Quick specs are a Trued blue M700 long action, Holland lug, #4 Shilen barrel, Tubbs firing pin assy, Tuned factory trigger, Lapped and epoxied Leupold rings and bases in a B&C Medalist. Skim bedded in full aluminum block.

Whisky
11-18-2012, 06:36 PM
Them are nice looking rounds. You don't happen to have velocities handy do you?;) And barrel length?...I notice your COALs are all above 3" with the exception of the 120. Do you feel I'd be hindered much in a SA at all?

Looking at contours, it does look like the Shilen 4 (mag sporter) is very similar to the Bartlein 3 (heavy sporter). I might have to either re think my barrel contour or go with a light stock like an MCM Edge. Of course fluting the barrel would probably reduce .75-1lb? Your scope is similar to what I'd run, but you do have the LA. I'm not sure off hand the weight differences between the LA and SA.

Overall, you happy with the performance of the 284 Win, both in ballistics and terminal performance? I know it doesn't do as well as the many 7mm mags, but it kicks the snot out of a 7-08 and 308. I have a 6.5mm SLR in a heavy rifle and I was considering building another 6.5 in a lighter rig. Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't go with something like the 284 for a little more energy at longer distances. I know the 6.5 will kill deer with ease out to and past my max effective ranges currently. But not sure on bigger game.

Did you have to fight any feeding issues with it?

Good info...Thanks for sharing!!

Whisky
11-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Another thing, have you tried RL17 at all. I came across a couple different articles in my reading and it looks like RL17 does VERY well for the 284 Win. In the article below note the velocity increase he saw.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

ThreeTikkas
11-18-2012, 06:55 PM
I don't have any instrumental velocities here. I'm too lazy to drag out the chronograph,lol. As far as being hindered with the short action,if you adjust your free bore to match the mag length,the difference will be taken up in powder capacity. Maybe a problem,maybe not. In all honesty if I was limited to a short action I'd consider the 7-08 or 260 Rem.

Never tried RL17. I may in the future though. I keep a couple pounds of RL19 here at all times because it's so versatile. I've read a bunch of posts on the BR forums pertaining to RL17 and it looks favorable.

No feeding issues to date. Can't say about the future,but she just feeds like she is supposed to.

cycloneshooter
11-21-2012, 07:49 AM
Great discussion! I have also been considering a 284 Winchester hunting rig.
I have a Winchester 70 action I want to use. Sort of a 'mid length' action with the plug in the back of the mag well.

I think the 284 Win is a great combination of many things. Short action efficient cartridge.
7mm bullets are also extremely good performers in the wind game and excellent terminal performance on live game.
There is also a great selection of bullets that could be tailored to the type of game being hunted.
Good compromise of weight, perforamance, recoil etc. without carrying around a magnum weight rifle.

ThreeTikkas, wondering what value you would see in a 26" barrel? I have been contemplating a longer barrel to maximize the velocity potential while still maintaining a hunting rifle length. Also, can you elabroate on your 'would be preference' of a 7-08 or 260 Rem in a short action?

BKC, wondering what the recoil is like in your ultra light arms? Any information on what load you are shooting?

ThreeTikkas
11-21-2012, 01:19 PM
I don't see a problem with the 26" tube. Especially if you want to run the heavier slugs over the slower powders. I was figuring from the start to use the 140 and 150gr bullets. I actually wanted to cut her to 23" and my smithy went to 24. Said we could cut it off and re-crown if I wasn't happy. Could be an option for you as well. Give it a try and if you don't see the return you expected, cut some off.

My only concerns with the 284 in a short action is ending up @ 7-08 velocities. If that were to be the case I'd sooner have a custom chambered 7-08,throated to suit my needs. In a long action the 284 can really come into it's own. No longer limited to the short magazine,or model 88 preasures,you have in essence a 284 short mag. The custom chamber will prolong case life,even at the higher working preasure. In my mind,I'd sooner have a long action chambered in 284 with a proper throat,than the same action in 280 AI. A more efficient case design with zero interference from the bullet in the case body. I included the 260 based on the same creteria with the benefit of the super B.C. and ever improving bullet selection the 6.5 is enjoying these days. Just one mans opinion for what it's worth.

Whisky
11-21-2012, 02:13 PM
I
My only concerns with the 284 in a short action is ending up @ 7-08 velocities. If that were to be the case I'd sooner have a custom chambered 7-08,throated to suit my needs. In a long action the 284 can really come into it's own. No longer limited to the short magazine,or model 88 preasures,you have in essence a 284 short mag. The custom chamber will prolong case life,even at the higher working preasure. In my mind,I'd sooner have a long action chambered in 284 with a proper throat,than the same action in 280 AI. A more efficient case design with zero interference from the bullet in the case body. I included the 260 based on the same creteria with the benefit of the super B.C. and ever improving bullet selection the 6.5 is enjoying these days. Just one mans opinion for what it's worth.

Yup, I've decided not to chance it in a short action and will build another 6.5mm SLR in a lighter carry rifle. Matter of fact, I already have the barrel, chamber reamer, and all the reloading stuff, so why not? The 284 still looks like a great cartridge, but the 6.5 will kill animals just as dead, with better ballistics, and I won't have to buy a whole bunch of new reloading stuff.

Now, since we're talking 7mm's in long actions....I personally would step up to a 7 saum or 7wsm. Like ThreeTikkas said, with the 284 Win you basically got a 7mm short mag, without the mag bolt face. I think at that point it would make sense to go with the better performing 7 saum.

cycloneshooter, I'm not familiar at all with M70 actions. What is the max COAL you can load to based on your mag box length? That should determine how well a 284 Win would work for you with that action. If it's too short, you'll have the bullet sticking into the case eating up precious case capacity, thus, basically gunning a 7mm-08.

ThreeTikkas
11-21-2012, 02:44 PM
Are you starting with the 243 Win case for the SLR? WHat sort of velocity are you getting with say a 140 grainer?

Whisky
11-22-2012, 09:38 AM
Yes, I started with Winchester brand 243 brass. I however, had a donut issue when forming brass. Through some trial and error, die modification, and neck turning, I got it sorted out. I will be neck turning my Win brass and running them in my hunting rifle. I will then be forming and turning Lapua 260 brass into SLR for my LR rifle. Once my Winchester stuff is shot up I will then switch over to Remington brand 260 for the hunting rifle, as I get NO douts when forming from that brass. Too bad I learned that fact after I had already formed 200 pcs of Win 243 brass.

I have not finished up my load testing yet. This donut deal kind of threw a wrench in my load testing. I didn't want to proceed knowing I had a donut. I was getting false signs of pressure, I was getting horrible neck tension and I was getting inconsistent seating depths because of it. All of my load testing at this point has been done with Winchester 243 win brass, with donuts...

Right now I'm shooting 43gr H4350, pushing 140 Hybrids at 2835 fps according to the chrono. But, when trying to true my ballistics program, I need to input 2870 fps to get my real trajectory to match the program. So I don't know which one I trust. I have worked up to sticky bolt, and that was 45gr H4350 pusing the Hybrid at I believe 3030-3040, somewhere in there. Don't have my data with me. I know I can get to around 2900 fps with the Hybrid with no pressure signs. And once the weather shapes up now (next spring) and I get all my brass turned, I will proceed with load testing again.

Also, I am going to try some Lapua brass as well. I think because it's a stroger case I will be able to squeeze some more velocity out of it before I see any pressure. Just an assumption though.

In the end I think I will see some performance gain over the 260. Is it enough to justify the BS I've gone through because of the donut? Time will tell. I'm pretty invested in the SLR now, so that is why I'm just going to chamber my lighter rifle in the same cartridge instead of the 260.

ThreeTikkas
11-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Makes sense to me. A sizeing die for the SLR is what, $100 or more? It's a pretty cool round and I'd be tempted to give one a try in a little stainless short action Rem I have here. If not for the cost of gearing up.

cycloneshooter
11-23-2012, 05:50 PM
Here are a couple pictures of my Winchester 70 post 64 short action I would like to use.
You can see that with the bolt in the full rearward position the opening is just over 2.96".
Also, the magazine in its current state is just over 2.86".

I am confident the 'plug' in the rear of the magazine could be modified longer.
If the bolt stop could be set back, in order to pick a round up out of the longer magazine, an overall length around 3.00" is possible.

I have never built a full custom gun before, so I don't know if this is possible or not?

Any recommendations?

Whisky
11-24-2012, 01:28 PM
I have never built a full custom gun before, so I don't know if this is possible or not?

Any recommendations?

I would recommend you track down and talk to a smith who is very familiar with M70 actions, and get his take on it. Personally, though, it may sound like more work than it's worth. And a bit of a gamble if you don't know how it will all turn out until it's finished.