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Umpqua Hunter
12-19-2012, 07:44 PM
I have been buying antelope points in Arizona since my twenties since I have been applying for sheep, elk and deer. I now have 23 points and can draw any unit in the state in the max point pool. I understand Unit 10 and Unit 5B are two of the best unit in the state. Unfortunately next year (2013) I have a scheduling conflict that would not allow me to invest the time to scout and hunt either of those units due to the season dates.

There are a couple units that have later season dates. The one that stands out is Unit 19B with only 5 tags. Does anyone know that unit and the trophy potential. My goal when I draw Arizona is to put in 10-14 days with the goal of taking 85"+ buck.

Also how is the moisture in that part of Arizona?

I will never be in this point position again, and would rather buy points for another 5 years than draw the wrong unit, or draw on a bad moisture year.

Thanks a bunch.

Bwht4x4
12-20-2012, 11:53 PM
Wait on unit 10. You won't be sorry if you waited a year or two more. I have a friend that is a NR of AZ and has drawn 3 premium lope tags there, 19A, 10 and 5B. He loved unit 10, but wasn't impressed with the other units.

Umpqua Hunter
12-31-2012, 02:07 AM
Thanks BWHT4X4. Do you know what year your friend had the Unit 10 tag and the Unit 5B tag? Also were these rifle or archery tags? My understanding is that 5B really turned on about 2010 or 2011, and had been struggling a bit before that.

Bwht4x4
12-31-2012, 12:02 PM
UH, I'm in Big Sky, MT until tomorrow and will PM when I get a chance.

Umpqua Hunter
12-31-2012, 04:09 PM
UH, I'm in Big Sky, MT until tomorrow and will PM when I get a chance.

Sounds great BH4X4...I really do like the idea of hunting Unit 10, because I should have enough points to draw an archery elk tag in Unit 10 in 2014, so hunting antelope there in 2013 would give me some time on the unit to check out the elk as well.

Bwht4x4
12-31-2012, 07:00 PM
UH, PM sent.

Zim
12-31-2012, 07:45 PM
I have the points to draw the unit 10 NR archery lope tag. Figure it's the best use of my points since I'll never draw rifle there. Couple guys told me the fawn crop was poor last year and I should wait until 2014 to hunt it if I do. Also claimed hunt was tough for bow due to large water tanks tough to get close. So most guys stalk. This sound correct? HT only has success rates for last 2 years........at about 30%. Seems worth a shot.

Bwht4x4
01-02-2013, 11:01 PM
I can't see why the fawn crop is going to hurt your hunt unless you're after a yearling buck. A decent buck is going to be 5+ years old and not impacted by this year's fawn crop. This could impact hunters in future years, but not your hunt in 2013 if you draw.

A larger impacting disease event is a different story, but a poor fawn crop isn't going to hurt your hunt.

Zim
01-03-2013, 12:02 AM
Well it must have been a few years ago then. They both just said the age group coming up in 2014-2015 should have more shooter age bucks.

Umpqua Hunter
01-03-2013, 09:57 PM
Here is the "fawn" situation in Unit 10 according to the Arizona Pronghorn Management Plan published by the AZFG in 2011:

"The long term average fawn survival in Unit 10 equals 33 fawns per 100 does. Fawn survival averaged 45 fawns per 100 does from 1947-1971, during the time when predator control was practiced. Fawn survival from 1972 to present, the post preditor control era, equals 23 fawns per 100 does.

In 2010, 31 fawns per 100 does were surveyed and in 2011, 53 fawns per 100 does were surveyed. This increase in fawn survival is due to preditor control practices being implemented in Unit 10. Since May 2010 approximately 494 coyotes were removed by aerial gunning and trapping within 15 months. "

From what I have read a buck antelope's horn growth typically peaks in the 3rd or 4th years. That means that in 2013 there should be a bump in the number of three year old bucks in Unit 10 (from the good fawn survival in 2010). In 2014 and 2015 there should be a substantial bump up in three and four year old bucks (from the great fawn survival in 2011).

I'm thinking pretty seriously of waiting a year or two longer to draw.

Fink
01-04-2013, 07:57 AM
Just my opinion, as I certainly don't have a dog in this fight.. But, I think you could chase around the perfect scenario for forever.. Tags are so limited in the units that you are considering, and it only takes one good buck to make the hunt..
Take this year for example, the vast majority of the country was (is) in a severe drought, yet some mighty fine animals hit the dirt all across the country.
Again, just my opinion, as I'm not the guy who has diligently built the points to hunt those units. I'd personally be more afraid of the AZGF drastically changing tag quotas, or selling off to SFW than I would about 10 more fawns per 100 being born.

Zim
01-04-2013, 08:34 AM
"I'd personally be more afraid of the AZGF drastically changing tag quotas, or selling off to SFW than I would about 10 more fawns per 100 being born."

Yes, unfortunately nobody can argue with that. Waited 11 years for unit 1 elk and they raised the quota from 150 to 245 now to 350 this year, and success rates have plummeted. SFW.........just vomited in my mouth a little.

Umpqua Hunter
01-04-2013, 07:11 PM
Yes, unfortunately nobody can argue with that. Waited 11 years for unit 1 elk and they raised the quota from 150 to 245 now to 350 this year, and success rates have plummeted. SFW.........just vomited in my mouth a little.

Zim...as far as elk hunting, tne thing to keep in mind is on Unit 3A and 3C some of the very best years were after the Rodeo Chediski fire, and tag numbers were doubled and tripled on those units. You have a similar scenario in Unit 1 with the 2011 Wallow fire on Unit 1.

Back to the antelope hunting, it is more like an extra 30 fawns per 100 does (23 fawns compared to 53 fawns per year). With the antelope population on Unit 10, I'm estimating that equates to around 200 more bucks a year on Unit 10. I realize you never have the perfect scenario, but many of my most disappointing hunts have come from poor timing (hunting a drought year, hunting after a unit peaks and is on the way down, etc).

Zim
01-05-2013, 08:12 AM
Ya I had a talk with my hunting buddy about all this and we agreed to stick with unit 1 and let the chips fall. And with unit 10 lope I'm going to wait until 2014 or 2015. I'm way over the points it takes to draw so not worried if there is a spike in applicants due to increased publicity should applicants increase there. Given the sparse terrain and archery limitations sounds like a shot opportunity needs more targets. I will apply for rifle there but know I won't draw.

Umpqua Hunter
01-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Zim, if you have plenty of points to draw Unit 10 archery antelope, you ought to check out Unit 9 since 2012 was the first year there was an antelope season and there were only 5 archery tags. It looks like it took a couple more points an archery tag than Unit 10 to draw. The auction tag buck was taken in Unit 9 in in 2011 (91 B&C) and a 91 5/8 buck was killed there in 2012. Problem in Arizona with archery hunting antelope is if you get the fall monsoon rains, waterhole hunting is suddenly very difficult.

Zim
01-05-2013, 11:05 AM
Oh wow I see what you are saying. Several NR's with 14, 15 points applied there. However, I don't think there are any tags in the preference pool, says only one NR drew in the random draw. I have 17 points. I think in unit 10 I'd be about guaranteed a tag?

Umpqua Hunter
01-05-2013, 12:39 PM
Oh wow I see what you are saying. Several NR's with 14, 15 points applied there. However, I don't think there are any tags in the preference pool, says only one NR drew in the random draw. I have 17 points. I think in unit 10 I'd be about guaranteed a tag?

Zim, there were two applicants in Unit 9 (antelope) last year with 15 points and according to Huntin Fool, one resident drew in the max 20% pass pool with 15 points. You would have drawn the tag with 16 points last year. From what I understand there will be 5 tags again this year, so one will go in the 20% pass pool.

Zim
01-05-2013, 01:57 PM
Zim, there were two applicants in Unit 9 (antelope) last year with 15 points and according to Huntin Fool, one resident drew in the max 20% pass pool with 15 points. You would have drawn the tag with 16 points last year. From what I understand there will be 5 tags again this year, so one will go in the 20% pass pool.

Don't the lope just run back and forth from 9 to 10? Is there much difference? Curious if the coyote control in 10 affects the age class in 9. Do you know what the success rate was on the unit 9 hunt last year? It is not shown on HT.

Umpqua Hunter
01-05-2013, 02:52 PM
Don't the lope just run back and forth from 9 to 10? Is there much difference? Curious if the coyote control in 10 affects the age class in 9. Do you know what the success rate was on the unit 9 hunt last year? It is not shown on HT.

First archery tags were on Unit 9 this past fall, and the harvest stats aren't published by the state until around June. I have read that the SW part of Unit 9 is the best, right up against Unit 10. I had an archery elk tag in 9 back in 2001 and there were antelope further east as well.

Here is a link to the 2012 report from AZF&G, you can see the herd stats and the harvest stats:

http://www.azgfd.gov/regs/HuntArizona2012.pdf

Zim
01-05-2013, 03:29 PM
Wow the numbers look pretty good for unit 9. Buck to doe ratio is almost triple that of unit 10. Would like to see the harvest success, but with only 5 tags that is not much of a sample size anyway. I may call the biologist there to get his take prior to applying.

Umpqua Hunter
01-05-2013, 08:51 PM
I'm fairly certain this YouTube video is of the Unit 9 auction tag buck in 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R28itxMAjVM