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cycloneshooter
01-23-2013, 12:34 AM
I will hopefully be a first time western hunter in 2013. I have 1 PP for antelope and will be trying to harvest a decent buck. I have recently purchased both a Delorme Gazetteer and a HuntingGPSMaps SD card for my Garmin. I am looking to hunt DIY on public land to avoid any extra trespass fees. I also don't want to be trespassing illegally because I don't know how the roads work in Wyoming. For discussion purposes only, I will use Unit 16 as an example for this post.

5111

This picture shows a portion of the southern part of unit 16. North of I-90 and west of the Powder river.
Are the maroon roads public roads or private, or does it depend? Are these two tracks or hard surface roads?

According to the gazetteer, there is an exit to Dry Creek Rd at exit 82. Proceeding west or east will eventually hook up with BLM land. Is it legal to cross the private land on these roads without permission?

Also, the blue and purple routes show roads to access even more BLM land, but once again, these are crossing private land. Is it legal to cross these private parcels without permission?

Also, referring to the gazetteer again, some roads are named roads [Dry Creek Road], some are numbered roads [204, 195 etc] and some roads in other units are FS numbered roads. Are all of these considered public roads? Is there a rule of thumb for whats public and whats private?

Eberle
01-23-2013, 07:25 AM
Solid roads should be improved roads that are typically public roads. A paved or gravel road that is maintained by the State or County will be public. FS, I'm assuming is "Forest Service" road will be public. Trespassing typically occurs when people are driving on two-track roads. A two-track road on a map will look like this = = = = = = = . So if you are on a two-track driving on BLM (yellow on the map) and it crosses private land (white on the map), you will be tresspasing if you continue to drive.

canvsbk
01-23-2013, 09:24 PM
My experience with this very confusing issue is that it's not really as tough as you initially think. The roads on the BLM maps that have numbers in little rectangles are county. Or that's how it seems when you're there. Travel on them as you would a US highway. The zinger for us was the road would have a number on the BLM map and a name on the DeLorme map and be marked totally different on site. The GPS map chip was of great help too. The gas and oil boys have their roads marked pretty well as to whether you're welcome to drive there or not.

SouthernWyo
01-23-2013, 10:08 PM
The only legal public access roads across private lands are those with an easement or public right of way of some sort that are maintained by a government entity - BLM, USFS, state or county. Any other roads, including oil and gas roads, across or on private are NOT public access.

cycloneshooter
01-24-2013, 08:18 AM
The only legal public access roads across private lands are those with an easement or public right of way of some sort that are maintained by a government entity - BLM, USFS, state or county. Any other roads, including oil and gas roads, across or on private are NOT public access.

This is great information folks, exactly the discussion I was hoping to get started.
State are usually hwys and interstates.
So county roads are numbers with boxes.
BLM are usually marked with a 4 digit number, like BLM 2305.
FS are marked FR or FT and then a number.

My concern is with a lot of these named roads. Using my Unit 16 example, Dry Creek Rd where it exits the interstate is also marked 204A boxed on the Delorme. Where i have outlined the blue and purple routes going north into BLM and crossing private parcels, the Delorme then shows ==== styled roads while the GPS are solid red lines. Am I to assume these are now 'two tracks'? From how I interpret SothernWyo members post, I can not use these roads because they cross private patches.

How else are we to access the BLM land then? I must say this is extremely frustrating. Large tracts of public land with no good way to get there. For many of us out of stater's, we don't have time to come to Wyoming and scout out places, and more often than not, we cant afford to come to Wyoming every year to become familiar with an area. We are dependent on maps, and that's why I am trying to understand how to decipher them and what the laws are.

ssliger
01-24-2013, 08:48 AM
How else are we to access the BLM land then? I must say this is extremely frustrating. Large tracts of public land with no good way to get there. For many of us out of stater's, we don't have time to come to Wyoming and scout out places, and more often than not, we cant afford to come to Wyoming every year to become familiar with an area. We are dependent on maps, and that's why I am trying to understand how to decipher them and what the laws are.

This is what we call land locked. With your example,the only way to access all the BLM land in your map is by using your own two feet.

WapitiBob
01-24-2013, 12:00 PM
You need to call the BLM district office directly to confirm whether that road has an easement for public access. Generally, BLM maps with BLM numbered roads have easements and are good for public travel whether they cross pvt or not. BLM can tell you in 60 seconds.

jenbickel
01-24-2013, 02:06 PM
You definitely got to be careful. Some of the landlocked stuff you are just SOL on. If the road to it is not public, you can't just walk across the private land to get there either.

buckbull
01-24-2013, 03:00 PM
I believe the sportsman act of 2012 was going to address a lot of land locked land and create easements. It is very unfortunate that it did not pass.

update: The act was going to open up 32 million land locked acres

ssliger
01-24-2013, 03:10 PM
You definitely got to be careful. Some of the landlocked stuff you are just SOL on. If the road to it is not public, you can't just walk across the private land to get there either.

Sorry, I should have clarified myself. What I meant was you would have to walk around the private property, not cross it.

shootbrownelk
02-28-2013, 01:34 PM
I believe the sportsman act of 2012 was going to address a lot of land locked land and create easements. It is very unfortunate that it did not pass.

update: The act was going to open up 32 million land locked acres

The bill didn't pass because the ranching/outfitting industry dominates the Wyoming legislature. The landlocked public land is their personal playground if they have a grazing lease. they have access 24/7/365 but we sportsmen don't.

Colorado Cowboy
02-28-2013, 02:47 PM
One of the ranches I hunt and an adjoining ranch have 3 school (state) sections totally surrounded and locked up. Each one is 640 acres (1 sq mile)and the one I don't hunt has an outfitter and yep....its their private playground! Its kinda funny because I have hunted the adjoining ranch for years and because one side of 1 of the state parcel borders the ranch. The other ranch has it fenced and posted. I just climb the fence and go hunting. The outfitter stopped me one year and was really ticked off because I had killed a really nice buck deer that he wanted for a client. When he saw that the adjoining ranch owner had signed my license and I told him it was state land that I had legal access to, he stomped off swearing ti himself.

Moral of the story is you have to know what you can & can't do.

Umpqua Hunter
02-28-2013, 03:11 PM
I think a great business for someone in SE Wyoming would be a helicopter drop service, to drop you into landlocked BLM. I know I would easily pay $500/person round trip for say 2 to 3 guys, just so they came back to pick us back up...lol.

shootbrownelk
03-01-2013, 04:20 PM
I think a great business for someone in SE Wyoming would be a helicopter drop service, to drop you into landlocked BLM. I know I would easily pay $500/person round trip for say 2 to 3 guys, just so they came back to pick us back up...lol.

Hunter, someone did just that some years ago and a fistfight ensued. Not sure of the outcome, but the rancher should have been charged. The guy was clearly legal.

shootbrownelk
03-01-2013, 04:25 PM
One of the ranches I hunt and an adjoining ranch have 3 school (state) sections totally surrounded and locked up. Each one is 640 acres (1 sq mile)and the one I don't hunt has an outfitter and yep....its their private playground! Its kinda funny because I have hunted the adjoining ranch for years and because one side of 1 of the state parcel borders the ranch. The other ranch has it fenced and posted. I just climb the fence and go hunting. The outfitter stopped me one year and was really ticked off because I had killed a really nice buck deer that he wanted for a client. When he saw that the adjoining ranch owner had signed my license and I told him it was state land that I had legal access to, he stomped off swearing ti himself.

Moral of the story is you have to know what you can & can't do.

Cowboy, we have a certain ranch around these parts that is leased by an outfitter and has "No Trespassing" signs posted on a fence that has 3 MILES of BLM ground on the other side. The outfitter & ranch hands try to blow smoke about calling the sheriff, but usually shut up when they see the GPS...but sometimes not. And it's always a hassle, even if you're right.

Fink
03-01-2013, 05:30 PM
I think a great business for someone in SE Wyoming would be a helicopter drop service, to drop you into landlocked BLM. I know I would easily pay $500/person round trip for say 2 to 3 guys, just so they came back to pick us back up...lol.

My cousin flies airplanes, it doesn't take much of a flat spot to land a Cessna, right? Maybe I'll request that he learns to fly a choppa.

Colorado Cowboy
03-02-2013, 07:51 AM
Cowboy, we have a certain ranch around these parts that is leased by an outfitter and has "No Trespassing" signs posted on a fence that has 3 MILES of BLM ground on the other side. The outfitter & ranch hands try to blow smoke about calling the sheriff, but usually shut up when they see the GPS...but sometimes not. And it's always a hassle, even if you're right.

I understand what you are saying totally. I guess if I was in that situation, I would plan ahead and go talk to the county sheriff and get his take on the situation before you climb the fence. Depends on how determined you are to hunt that particular spot.

trkytrack2
03-02-2013, 02:41 PM
Welcome to the west.....hundred of thousands of acres of public land surrounded by private property and there is no way to access it unless you fork over the big bucks to the ranchers or outfitters. As long as these hoodlums are as powerful as they are in the legislature in their states, it will never change.

HiMtnHnter
03-03-2013, 08:35 AM
The GPS's with the chips are a step in the right direction. However, I have been involved in one case where the GPS was flat wrong and the ranch manager was right. It just depends on what map the chip-maker looks at I guess . . . If we are going to pay that kind of money for a gps and chip, you would think we'd have accuracy on our side . . .

The chopper and plane idea put a new spin on "gas money"!

BKC
03-03-2013, 09:45 AM
I was on a public road that went thru private property looking for access to a section of state land and found the road just went by the corner of this piece of land. I had my truck parked on the road and was standing in the ditch ( 10' from my truck ) leaning on the corner post, which was posted state land. The wire gate at the corner was permanently wired shut and had a length of chain and a lock on it. As I was scratching my head trying to figure out the lay of the land, the land owner told me I was on private property and I said how is that so. He said the fence was his and the ditch was his and the only public land was the gravel road and the state land. I could have tuned my truck perpendicular to the road and backed up to the edge of the road, droped my tailgate and jumped onto the state land over the fence. I don't know how I could have gotten out of there or what I would have done with my truck but It wasn't worth it for 1 section. Now if it would have freed up a ton of land, I would have figured something out. This is a classic example of how public land is tied up, basically our tax dollars NOT at work.

cycloneshooter
03-03-2013, 10:53 AM
This topic just frustrates the heck out of me. In my opinion, there is no point in having 'public land' if there is no 'right of way' to access it.

I understand laws are laws, but this makes it tough for out of staters or non-land owners.

Western land owners, consider yourselves lucky. The rest of us are very jealous.

bigmoose
03-03-2013, 11:28 AM
It is very frustrating. Kind of like corner jumping, where you step across corners of private/public properties. Many landowners feel the public property behind theirs is theirs. They can get pretty fiesty and in your face when asking how to get to said public property. The fact that we are out-of-staters makes it even worse. One year my wife and I were hunting Raymond Mtn. and we came up to a fence with a locked gate. The land behind the fence was posted and we turned the Jeep around, I noticed something just inside the fence. I looked over the fence and there was a pile of rocks in the shape of a grave with a cross at one end. On the cross was painted "here lies the last California hunter who came through this gate". Nuf' said.

Moose

shootbrownelk
03-04-2013, 05:07 PM
I understand what you are saying totally. I guess if I was in that situation, I would plan ahead and go talk to the county sheriff and get his take on the situation before you climb the fence. Depends on how determined you are to hunt that particular spot.

Cowboy, I was determined to hunt that area, opened the gate and have hunted it for a few years. The outfitter can pound sand!

Colorado Cowboy
03-04-2013, 05:30 PM
Cowboy, I was determined to hunt that area, opened the gate and have hunted it for a few years. The outfitter can pound sand!

I guess if they are not pushing the issue with you, they probably know they are wrong!

wileywapiti
03-04-2013, 08:14 PM
Well, being from Wyoming I can help you out a ton.....first, don't put in for antelope anywhere on the eastern side of the state. Simple as that, it's all (well all most) private or land locked and you will have to pay to get access. The great thing about Wyoming is there is a western half.....lol. Virtually no private land. Hunt wherever u want to with no trespass fees. There is a reason why there is always left over tags in the east...no land to hunt, unless u want to pay. AND in my opinion, the quality is better in the west. Also, I have found that the ranchers in the west are WAY easier to get along with. In 26 years of hunting the west, I have never been turned down for land access, if I needed on a ranch to chase a trophy. In the east....good luck! My in-laws live in the northeast corner and the only land I get access to is a family ranch. All else I've been told yes, but for a trespass fee.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

BobcatJerry
03-04-2013, 08:52 PM
I hunted antelope in eastern Wyoming, with an outfitter. They dropped me off at the blind, at a water hole. I had my gps with me, keeping my tracks, and when I got home, it said that where we were it was national grassland. Would I be able to go back there and hunt on my own if I wanted too? plus any BLM land that was there? Had roads through the private land that were marked on garmin city navigator.

SouthernWyo
03-05-2013, 10:05 PM
Bobcat, you could only hunt those sections if there is LEGAL PUBLIC access on the roads through the private, Roads marked on a garmin only indicare a vehicle route, not the ownership, status or maintenance. Most roads that show up on a garmin in eastern Wyoming are not public access.

BobcatJerry
03-05-2013, 10:32 PM
Thanks, I'll be sure to have a detailed USFS or BLM map. Not that I'm going there, I just wondered what the deal was.

ceby7
03-07-2013, 12:52 AM
I was on a public road that went thru private property looking for access to a section of state land and found the road just went by the corner of this piece of land. I had my truck parked on the road and was standing in the ditch ( 10' from my truck ) leaning on the corner post, which was posted state land. The wire gate at the corner was permanently wired shut and had a length of chain and a lock on it. As I was scratching my head trying to figure out the lay of the land, the land owner told me I was on private property and I said how is that so. He said the fence was his and the ditch was his and the only public land was the gravel road and the state land. I could have tuned my truck perpendicular to the road and backed up to the edge of the road, droped my tailgate and jumped onto the state land over the fence. I don't know how I could have gotten out of there or what I would have done with my truck but It wasn't worth it for 1 section. Now if it would have freed up a ton of land, I would have figured something out. This is a classic example of how public land is tied up, basically our tax dollars NOT at work.

From your description, you DO have access to this state section. Public road right-of-ways(in MT I know) are 60 feet wide(30 feet from the center-line of the road). The public road does not end at the edge of the gravel. That landowner was blowing smoke up your a**.