PDA

View Full Version : What to build, any ideas?



ChadH
02-11-2013, 10:09 PM
So I have an "extra" Savage Weather Warrior in .243 (stainless, with accu-trigger and blind mag). I already have one in .243 (plus a .270 and a .300 win), that belongs to my son. This one is just taking up space, so I'm thinking I'll turn it in to something else. Any suggestions? I'm thinking a Deer/Antelope gun, could use for Elk in a pinch, and mild enough recoil my wife can shoot it. Obviously short action... There is the obvious 7mm 08, Not sure if a 7X57 would chamber in the short action (it is technically a short action round I believe, but with heavier bullets optimal for the caliber???), maybe a 6.5 Creedmore, anything else anyone wants to suggest?

What else would you do to it (stock, etc), just for the fun of dreaming?

And what barrel would you use (I am thinking the Shillen Savage drop in, Stainless Match grade Select...)???

Colorado Cowboy
02-12-2013, 07:12 AM
First thing is that you eliminate a lot of really great calibers by saying "Obviously short action...". Yes you will save a little weight with a short action, but there are a lot of other ways to shave weight on standard length actions. When you talk deer/antelope & elk in a pinch, it means to me a .25 cal minimum. I have a .25-06 that I have shot for 35 years that does everything you could ask for in that area. It is an older tang safety Ruger M77 and after literally 1000's of rounds thru it, still shoots less than 1" groups. I have killed elk with it, but it requires good shot placement.

Barrels are like cars, everyone has their favorites. I like Shilen SS match and have 3 of them. I probably would consider a screw on muzzle brake, great for range work to keep recoil down and then screwed of when hunting. They are really noisy! (Thats what I do with my .300 Wby).

A really good composite stock, again your choice. I use a Bell & Carlson pillar blocked one on my custom >300 Wby.

If you want a really light rifle that is easy to carry and dead on accurate, look for an older M600 Remington in 6.5 mag. They havn't been made for years, but were a really great rifle for kids and smaller persons. I bought one in .243 for my son when he was 12 (he is 45 now) that was deadly accurate and easy to carry. He likes it so well he bought a used one in 6.5 mag also. Kicks a little more, but is really a great shooter too. Weighs in at around 6#.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

ChadH
02-12-2013, 09:25 AM
First thing is that you eliminate a lot of really great calibers by saying "Obviously short action...". Yes you will save a little weight with a short action, but there are a lot of other ways to shave weight on standard length actions. When you talk deer/antelope & elk in a pinch, it means to me a .25 cal minimum. I have a .25-06 that I have shot for 35 years that does everything you could ask for in that area. It is an older tang safety Ruger M77 and after literally 1000's of rounds thru it, still shoots less than 1" groups. I have killed elk with it, but it requires good shot placement.

All valid points CC. As I said, the donor gun is a Savage .243 ("obviously" short action) so I said "obviously" because I'd rather keep it to a do-able project "at home" and eliminate the major surgery it might take to turn it into a long action magnum which my wife wouldn't enjoy shooting anyway. I am not sure that a .25-06 will fit in the mag box without work. If it would, that would open up possabilities of course. But in any case, I am "stuck" with the Savage at this point. I bought it from someone for super cheap (so cheap that even though I didn't need it, I couldn't walk away from it). I only say stuck, because I already own it. I truly like Savage rifles, so it's a good thing in my mind.

What contour Shillen do you prefer? I was thinking Savage "sporter contour" which is almost light varmint to me.

Colorado Cowboy
02-12-2013, 10:17 AM
Sorry, guess I missed the donor portion. Yes for what you are doing, that contour will do fine. I am sure the 25-06 is too long. In any case, for me at least, a .25 of some sort would be min. .243 are great for deer/antelope, but IMHO a little light for elk.

digger11
02-12-2013, 03:12 PM
6.5x284norma and just get a savage barrel for cheap.I have one in a savage Long Range Hunter.Deadly accurate and a joy to shoot.
Antelope and deer beware.

ChadH
02-12-2013, 03:44 PM
6.5x284norma and just get a savage barrel for cheap.I have one in a savage Long Range Hunter.Deadly accurate and a joy to shoot.
Antelope and deer beware.

Unless I am mistaken, I think I would have the same problem that would exist with CC's usggestion of .25 06. The 6.5 x .284 is a "long action" round... or at least "medium action". I am not sure how well it would fit in the mag box unless you seated the bullets deep or modified the mag, then would it come out the ejection port, or would you have a single shot rifle??? This is the reason I started this thread... short action kind of limits possabilities, especially for someone like me... not a "Master Gunsmith" by any stretch.

If I could make a long action caliber work out of it I would run .264 win (my personal "love affair") or 7X57, or perhaps 6.5 X .284... but being short action, I just don't know. I sure do appreciate all the advice I can get though. ;)

Murdy
02-12-2013, 05:16 PM
I like the obvious myself (7-08), but if you don't, how about .260 Rem.

ChadH
02-12-2013, 05:28 PM
The .260 Rem is certainly an interesting option... as is the 6.5 Rem (which is a short action version of, like I said, my "love affair with the .264 win).

What do you think the optimal barrel length for a .260 is?

And relative to 6.5 Rem, I am pretty sure the bolt face would have to be opened from the .243 to accept it...??? Anyone know for sure?

Bitterroot Bulls
02-12-2013, 05:33 PM
Chad,

.260s are like the rest of the 08 family - they only really need 20-22 in. barrels for good performance, and going over 24 doesn't have good gains at all.

I have had good luck with douglass barrels.

Either the .260 or 7-08 are sound choices. I have a 7-08 and would lean that way.

ChadH
02-12-2013, 05:54 PM
Chad,

.260s are like the rest of the 08 family - they only really need 20-22 in. barrels for good performance, and going over 24 doesn't have good gains at all.

I have had good luck with douglass barrels.

Either the .260 or 7-08 are sound choices. I have a 7-08 and would lean that way.

BB, how much fitting is involved with the Douglas barrels? Are they pretty much drop in and headspace?

I agree on the 7-08... I have a .280 in Weatherby Ultra Light, so it would have the benefit of me having bullets around for it. On the other hand, a .260 is different from what I have (with the exception of the other 6.5 I own... a Pre 64 .264 WIN that shoots unbelievably well, but is in such good shape I hate to take it out of the gun safe much less drag it around the mountains).

Bitterroot Bulls
02-12-2013, 06:49 PM
Sharp Shooters Supply sells pre-fit Douglas barrels ready for you to headspace onto the action. They aren't cheap, but are high-quality barrels.

Tough to go wrong with the 7-08 or .260.

I actually have a factory 260 rem savage barrel and the go-no-go laying around.

canvsbk
02-13-2013, 08:38 PM
.257 Roberts AI

ChadH
02-14-2013, 12:08 AM
.257 Roberts AI

Good idea Can. Have you personal experience with a .257 Bob in a short action? I know it will work, and work nicely in this exact rifle model, just wondering if AI-ing would yield meaningful results in a short action.

I'm also not sure a .257 Bob would be as effective as a .260, with pretty much the same recoil and rifle weight/barrel length... but it is certainly one to consider. I also thought about "Old School" Savage... and going .250 Savage.

Good thought Can.

Colorado Cowboy
02-14-2013, 07:27 AM
I'm a big fan of the work P.O. Ackley did. He was way before his time. I have all his books and have read them all. Some of his improved stuff works really well, some is only marginal. Bur one thing to remember when considering one of his improved cartridges, he did not have the really great powders we have today, most of his original data is really different from today. Google .257 Ackley Improved and you should find a lot of stuff with current powders. I have a .220 AI Swift that is just awsome. I did a lot of research before I decided to build it.

The .250 Savage (also called 250-3000) is really close ballisically to the .257.

WYcoyote
02-14-2013, 08:15 PM
I have a 6.5 x 284 in a long action Savage build, to get a great round in a short action how about the parent case, the original .284 Win.?

canvsbk
02-15-2013, 04:16 AM
Yes, I just happen to have a .257AI that I originally built for my daughter on a Rem model 7 action. If I had it to do over I think a 24" barrel may have been better than 22". Recoil is minimal and it's about as good as you can get for deer sized game but my personal opinion is it would be an absolute minimum for elk, but that's just me.
With the powders available today it can really be amazing what you can get out of a lot of cartridges. For a while I thought my chronograph was broke....
RL 17 and 110 Accubond are the ticket.

Colorado Cowboy
02-15-2013, 06:43 AM
I really like Alliant's RE powder series, they all seem to really perform well for me:cool:

wapiti66
02-15-2013, 06:56 AM
I bought my wife a Model 7 in .260 Rem a few years ago. It's a good fit for her and she shoots it well, she shot a nice mulie with it but no elk yet. I think it's a good option for a lady/youth gun shooting deer, elk, and antelope. I loaded some 140 gr. Hornadys for the deer and can go down to the 95 gr. v-max for coyotes...which is pretty lethal. I also shoot a dpms in .260.

wapiti66
02-15-2013, 07:01 AM
My experience with powder is limited, I have been using varget. My second option on hand would be 4350. again, I mostly shoot/load .260 and a little .223. Any good books/articles on powder out there? Although I think any powder "on hand" these days is a good powder.

Fish
02-15-2013, 08:39 AM
I like the Roberts but not a great fit in a short action. I have a long throated Ruger #1 with a 26 barrel and I get 3,200fps with a 100gr. Barnes TS I been shooting a 7x57 since 1976 and it has taken caribou, antelope, a bear, mt goat, lots of deer and a few african antelope. Would not hesitate to shoot an elk with it with the right bullets, again maybe not the best fit in a short action.

Colorado Cowboy
02-15-2013, 02:11 PM
It's kind of in between....a little longer than the 250-3000 and a little shorter than the 25-06.

ChadH
02-15-2013, 03:45 PM
I like the Roberts but not a great fit in a short action. I have a long throated Ruger #1 with a 26 barrel and I get 3,200fps with a 100gr. Barnes TS I been shooting a 7x57 since 1976 and it has taken caribou, antelope, a bear, mt goat, lots of deer and a few african antelope. Would not hesitate to shoot an elk with it with the right bullets, again maybe not the best fit in a short action.

It actually chambers GREAT in a short action, and even with heavier bullets it has no problem feeding in a Savage Short action. The question I need to research is the terminal ballistics of available bullets. No doubt you can shoot them, but can you achieve optimal intended velocity for the different bullet design options. A great website for this (I have found anyway) is: http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html

Lots of good information to consider there.

With respect to a .257 chambering in a short action Savage... here is a short video of the exact same model Savage Weather Warrior, in .243, rebarreled to .257 Roberts, chambering factory Fed premium 120 gr partitions:
http://s490.beta.photobucket.com/user/slowpokeslim/media/P1050700.mp4.html?fromLegacy=true

I am confident it will work beautifully if that is what I end up choosing. I am kind of leaning towards .257, .250 Sav, or .260... reading up on load/bullet combos right now to see if that leads in any particular direction. .250 is slower than the .257, but really terminal ballistics of the bullets concern me more (and what it would mean for barrel length, I don't want to go to long trying to achieve a certain velocity, as per XYZ bullet design requirements, and create an overly heavy rifle that my wife wouldn't enjoy carrying). If I still lived in Missouri and hunted Whitetails in a bean field at 200 yards and under, in my back yard, like the old days, I wouldn't even worry about it. Here in the west, the possibility of a little longer shot is a higher.

Great ideas guys. I really appreciate the input.

ChadH
02-15-2013, 04:09 PM
I been shooting a 7x57 since 1976 and it has taken caribou, antelope, a bear, mt goat, lots of deer and a few african antelope. Would not hesitate to shoot an elk with it with the right bullets

I am sure Jack O'Connor's wife would agree with you completely, if she was alive to bear witness. A 7X57 is a very neat round. Unlike the .257 Roberts, it does have the potential to have feeding problems in a Short Action due to the heavier bullets optimal for the caliber, I haven't tried it personally, nor seen one chambered in short action, though I have heard it can be done, but is considered a "medium action".... I may buy a 7X57 modified case and put a bullet in it and see how it fits the chamber and ejection port. It would be interesting to know for sure.

Colorado Cowboy
02-15-2013, 06:04 PM
As a wildcat (before it was loaded by any factory) the .257 Roberts was made from 7x57 cases.

ChadH
02-15-2013, 09:56 PM
As a wildcat (before it was loaded by any factory) the .257 Roberts was made from 7x57 cases.

Correct. And I am sure that with a light bullet it would be fine... the question would be with a heavier bullet (the weights that are optimal for 7X57 140, 162 168 grain), would it be seated to long to feed in a short action, without becoming a compressed load? I'd have to see that for myself I guess.

canvsbk
02-16-2013, 06:22 AM
I always enjoy threads like this and look forward to whatever decision you might make. Of course we'll also need to see pictures of the finished project along with some targets. I think we all say "I'ld like to build this or that someday" so it's kinda fun sorta being involved at some level. My current build in progress is a 7 RM...which started as a .280 AI but the donor action I found was a mag bolt face. Brux fluted 26" mag contour, Medalsist stock, fluted bolt, action/barrel K&G coated in satin stainless, bolt and bottom metal in matte black. Dan Glover is building it and I CAN'T WAIT!!
Good luck on your build.

Drhorsepower
02-17-2013, 08:20 AM
Are you planning on changing the bolt face?

ChadH
02-17-2013, 10:04 AM
Are you planning on changing the bolt face?
Maybe, though in the spirit of "keeping it mild enough recoil (and I suppose this implies light weight as well) for my wife to shoot" I would probably rather stay away from a Magnum caliber. The Calibers suggested so far (.250 Sav, .257 Roberts, .260 rem, 7-08) shouldn't require alteration to the Savage bolt face. If I was to go with something like 7mm wsm or even .243 wssm, then I would have to add a Magnum bolt face for sure.

Colorado Cowboy
02-17-2013, 10:49 AM
Recoil can be controlled a little is with a muzzle brake, but it is really noisy. I have one on my .300Wby that is a screw on. I use it when I shooting on the bench at paper and screw it off when I'm hunting.

BobT
02-18-2013, 04:56 AM
The cartridge you seek is the .270/08 improved. It gives .270 ballistics in a short action case with 10 grains less powder. It also works splendidly in a short action Savage.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/rltjlt/020-1.jpg

Just an all around great short action cartridge!

Bob

ChadH
02-18-2013, 11:51 AM
The cartridge you seek is the .270/08 improved. It gives .270 ballistics in a short action case with 10 grains less powder. It also works splendidly in a short action Savage.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/rltjlt/020-1.jpg

Just an all around great short action cartridge!

Bob

Now there is something I hadn't thought of Bob. I am guessing the recoil is quite managable. What kind of muzzle velocity are you getting and what bullets are you shooting? Is that a stock Savage you rebarreled? What barrel did you select (and length)? Weight of rifle... give us the particulars man! :cool:

Thanks for the idea Bob...

P.S. I sure miss those MDC shooting ranges.... nice benches. Where is that one? The one by our farm has a lid though... kind of nice in the summer heat... though a little LOUDER, LOUDER

BobT
02-18-2013, 08:43 PM
I'll have to dig out the chronograph data, that particular barrel was a Douglas 24 incher, now an 18" fire form barrel. The next one will be a Kreiger or Broughton. Rifle is an M10, Rifle Basics trigger and Stockade bolt handle, Boyds stock. That rifle is no longer in the stable but I'm going tomorrow to look for another one to replace it. I have a fair bit of load data I can share if you decide to go this direction. I'll try to get the chrono data posted in the next couple of days.

The range is at Indian Trail state forest in Dent county.

Bob

BobT
02-23-2013, 05:16 AM
I have looked all over creation and can't find my chronograph records. From my 24" Douglas barrel I was squirting the 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip out at around 3200 fps. I never got any farther than the 130 grain bullets in serious testing so I can't report from personal experience on the heavier weights. The only caveat with this one is the cost of dies, my RCBS set was $275.00 if memory serves.

Bob

canvsbk
02-27-2013, 06:31 PM
.270/08 - I really like that one. Did you go with 18 or 30 degree shoulder?
I've got a .270 that really shoots and every time I take it to the range or hunt with it I wonder why I've got all that other finicky stuff. In it's place the .270 will hang pretty tough.

Sawfish
04-11-2013, 01:51 PM
You have the same dilemma with your rifle that I have with one of my Savage Strikers. It is a given that anything in the .308 Family will fit (.243 Win; .260 Rem; 7/08; .308 Win; .358 Win.). I have wrestled with the 7 x 57 conversion, as I have a good bit of brass for that caliber. Ditto with the 6.5 x 55 Swede (which is currently the front runner). The 120 Sierra or Nosler bullets will fit and function through the magazine. I could also do the same with the 7 x 57 by seating the 140 gr. Nosler BT bullets a little deeper, which is exactly what Winchester does with its WSSM series. After many considerations, I am down to 6.5 x 55 Swede; 7 x 57 Mauser; or (a distant third) .358 Winchester.

What is not in limbo is barrel choice McGowen barrels will make you a threaded and chambered SS barrel to fit your action for a tad under $180. I replaced the factory barrel on my .300 WSM Striker with a McGowen because the usable length of a factory Striker barrel is only 13.5" (not counting the brake). I was very pleased by their price, service, and quality. I do not think that you would be disappointed.

BobT
04-13-2013, 04:31 PM
.270/08 - I really like that one. Did you go with 18 or 30 degree shoulder?
I've got a .270 that really shoots and every time I take it to the range or hunt with it I wonder why I've got all that other finicky stuff. In it's place the .270 will hang pretty tough.

Sorry canvsbk I let this thread slip out of mind, mine has a 40 degree shoulder.

Bob