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View Full Version : Utah applications due by March 4th



Elkhunter96
03-01-2013, 10:04 AM
Just a reminder, UT is on the clock to get applications in...

Good Luck

Eric Bailey
03-01-2013, 12:28 PM
Hi Elkhunter,

What do you apply for as non resident in Utah?

I'm a Colorado resident too. So, I have plenty of opportunities to hunt deer and elk here at home. I have been considering putting in for preference points in UT for Antelope, Bighorn Sheep, and Moose. But, unless I'm reading the drawing results wrong, it looks like I have extremely long odds even with a pile of points. Do you think it is worth it for non-residents to buy the $70 license and $10 preference points for potentially decades? Seems like a futile waste of cash. At least for these species. Am I wrong?

Zim
03-01-2013, 02:05 PM
Eric,

If you are starting from ground zero I highly suggest you not to apply in Utah. Sadly, they are runaway leaders in the privitization of a public resource with their auction, raffle and landowner tags. Each time they dip into the till it removes that many more premium limited entries from average Joe. As a result, you are absolutely correct in your evaluation of their draw results/odds. It's funny the way you wrote your comment "Unless I'm reading the drawing results wrong............." NO! You are not reading them wrong. They really are that bad. So many blindly overlook these, instead blurting SFW's battle cry..........You gotta apply to win. And commenting it is too cheap to not apply.

I disagree. The odds for even the worst UT LE common critter deer & elk tags are horrendous, like Powerball odds. Then you go to sheep odds and you are looking at 1 in 5,000! I mean it's tough to draw a sheep tag anywhere, but the odds are by no means THAT horrendous elsewhere. SFW has turned the regular nonresident UT draw into nothing but an entity in the business of making money selling the opportunity to NOT hunt.

The odds are pathetic and a guy has about a thousand better places to invest that point money. Do the math. For one example just add up how many $150 application fees you will need to incur before drawing a good elk tag. Now take the cost of a NM LO bull elk hunt $2,000 and divide that by the $150+interest. Think you can draw a similar tag in UT in 10 years? No way.

The only reason I am staying in their Ponzi scheme is my 16 deer points. If I ever get to burn those on my hunt, I will promptly dump all my other 4 points for all species, and be on my way.

Elkhunter96
03-01-2013, 08:33 PM
I am not as negative as Zim on Utah and play the game in several states. If you start now, more than likely it will be a long road to getting a good tag. The thing is, if you don't play the game, you will never draw.

I also think it is a good idea to save up for land owner tags, just might have to spend more than 2k for a good one.

Utah has a lot better elk trophy units than Colorado, just takes too long to draw the tags. I wouldn't waste your time with antelope, moose and bighorn sheep in utah. The odds are too bad for them, the moose herd is way down. Mountain Goats are a growing population in Utah, if that interests you and tags have been increasing every year for them.

One little tip, if you time out applications, you can buy one 70 license and use it for two years. Meaning you buy one today and apply by the end of February next year...cuts the cost down.

Umpqua Hunter
03-01-2013, 08:56 PM
Eric, I think Utah is a worth while state to put in for. There are enough good rut elk hunts (rifle, muzzleloader and archery) that the points to draw some of the mid tier hunts has actually stabilized at around 10-14 points. Some of those units are only ticking up one point every 4-5 years, so you probably can get a tag at around the 15 year mark (just so you know what you are in for). The best tags you will never catch, but if you would like to hunt a 310-330 class elk I would put in for those mid tier hunts. You may as well apply for a tag as for a point since you don't have to front the tag fee (it will be billed to your credit card if you draw), and you pay the same application fee if you are applying for a point or for a tag. Utah is a hybrid bonus point state, so you can draw with less than max points.

You will need to buy the hunting license and as Elkhunter96 mentioned, the license is good for 365 days, so if you buy it this year and apply, just so you apply next year before the date you applied this year, you can use the same license. That way you get two years of applications on one license. I expect that option will go away at sometime though.

All of the limited entry deer hunts are very difficult to draw, just because there are so few tags, so you will just have to decide if the extra $10 to apply is worth it. My wife drew one last year with 2 points, it was an 80:1 long shot.

If you apply for sheep, goat, moose or bison, you are basically just buying a lottery ticket, the odds are very very long.

I may be worth buying a general season deer preference point. Utah just stopped their general season, and put all general season tags on a draw. My guess is in 5-7 years there may be some descent general season deer hunting there.

So really it comes down to if chasing the elk tag is worth it to you. Like Zim mentioned, you could just save the money and buy a landowner tag somewhere too.

Elkhunter96
03-01-2013, 09:24 PM
I agree with Umpqua, I have had one le tag in Utah and helped on two-three other ones for friends/family, those tags are worth the wait. Even the medium units where there are mainly 300-340 bulls are worth the wait, especially if you are hunting other states and just planning on a tag every 10-15 years. Every LE hunt I have been on, I have seen big bulls well above the unit averages. We didn't get any of them, but still had great hunts.

hvfd21walker
03-01-2013, 11:11 PM
Well I have been building points in Utah for 6 years now. If you dont put in you cant draw.

Zim
03-02-2013, 06:55 AM
Eric, I think Utah is a worth while state to put in for. There are enough good rut elk hunts (rifle, muzzleloader and archery) that the points to draw some of the mid tier hunts has actually stabilized at around 10-14 points. Some of those units are only ticking up one point every 4-5 years, so you probably can get a tag at around the 15 year mark.

Be aware there is a white elephant standing in the room, in the way of the sunami of 2009 applicants who jumped in when Utah changed the system, allowing nonresidents to apply for all species the same year. So when that bunch hits the preference point level you are going to see massive point creep. That is why I say it's so hopeless to start applying now. I don't consider it a good ROI even now for myself, who is in that 4 point pool for everything but deer (16). For all practical purposes, someone just starting now can write off ever drawing in any preference pool for anything. They should just look at the random odds, which are dismal.

Drhorsepower
03-02-2013, 07:35 AM
Well I have been building points in Utah for 6 years now. If you dont put in you cant draw.

My thoughts exactly.

Zim
03-02-2013, 08:16 AM
"If you don't apply you cant draw."

It blows my mind how many times I hear this battle cry. Don Peay & SFW depend on it to pocket your money. UDOW depends on it to pocket your money.

The same slogan goes for Powerball. Does that make it a smart investment?

There are a hell of a lot better places to invest for your money for hunting opportunities. This is not an opinion. It is a statistical fact. Do the math.

Those are my thoughts.