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tdub24
04-30-2013, 04:09 PM
So since I have killed both my NV antelope and bull, I have been irritated that NV has waiting periods for successful hunters. I don't fully understand the "allowing others the opportunity to draw a tag" claim, isn't that what the bonus points are for?? I decided to calculate missed money the NDOW would have gotten from last year's successful antelope tag holders as well as money missed from last year's bull tag holders for residents. If those same folks decided to apply for these species again this year, NDOW would have received in predator and app fees $22,009 for antelope and $23,364 for bull elk. Wouldn't you think that money would be useful in getting control of predators as well as improving burned areas? Am I over thinking this and the waiting period is good for something I am completely overlooking??:confused::mad:

Thanks for letting me rant for a second.

Ikeepitcold
04-30-2013, 04:41 PM
Ummm well I've always felt it was ok because it was a management tool for keeping trophy quality. Would I love to hunt bull elk and antelope every year? Yes I would but I am willing to wait to keep the trophy quality up. As far as the money. Ya I would think they would love to have it.

Drhorsepower
04-30-2013, 05:22 PM
Waiting periods are a good thing. Tags are hard enough to draw.

hardstalk
04-30-2013, 05:50 PM
Im sure each person that is ineligible in the draw participates in the silver state or other raffle. I think allowing bonus points to be purchased while ineligible would be a good idea though. After your 10 years is up for elk you should be able to hunt one of your top choices.

Ikeepitcold
04-30-2013, 06:19 PM
For me and a few guys we try for the Bull Elk depredation tags, cow elk tags, doe Antelope tags while we wait. Also give the option of hunting out of state knowing we won't draw the good tags for our home state.

BigSurArcher
04-30-2013, 07:27 PM
While your calculator is out, look at how much better the odds were for you to draw your antelope and elk tags because of the waiting period rule. Who's to say the waiting period for those who drew before you isn't what allowed you to draw? And from a pure monetary standpoint, 22 and 23k isn't that much compared to the total that the state raises in app and tag fees every year.

tdub24
05-01-2013, 07:35 AM
BigSurArcher, good point with the draw odds, I never really looked at it that way. As far as quality goes, the trophy wouldn't change if I was able to apply every year as long as quotas don't go ridiculous. I just would like to hunt my state for elk regularly, especially now that I am learning some areas extensively and see gigantic bulls every year. I too put in for the depredation hunts, and if I do not draw will attempt secoond draw cow if one is available I am interested in. Good point IKIC on the out of state opportunity, my buddy and I are both in the NV waiting period, so we are thinking about heading to ID for an archery OTC tag. I get butterflies just thinking about that trip, anxiety kept me up all night the other day.

I do think NV is money hungry, don't see any other reason for the ridiculous tag quota increase last year. But, overall, I guess I really don't have anything to complain about. Thanks for the replies, you brought up some valid points I overlooked, thanks.

Ikeepitcold
05-01-2013, 08:12 AM
I heard yesterday from a guy that Nv F&G says if you put in for cow your gonna have greater odds then normal. He said they want to thin herds down especially cows.

BigSurArcher
05-01-2013, 09:17 AM
I heard yesterday from a guy that Nv F&G says if you put in for cow your gonna have greater odds then normal. He said they want to thin herds down especially cows.

I assume this is an effort to reduce some of the interspecific competition for the mule deer herds? This is just my opinion, but I think the increased elk abundance puts as much or more pressure on the mule deer as increased mule deer tag quotas... yet the vast majority of people seem to blame the tag quotas alone. IMO mule deer are affected most my habitat loss/destruction, then competition with other species (elk + predation), then by overexploitation by too many tags (these past few years).

dhershberger
05-01-2013, 09:27 AM
Man I am so glad I live in NM. I have never been a fan of the points system. It takes way to long to draw a good unit and the luck of the draw is a much better system and it is exciting because you could draw a fantastic trophy game unit every year. Just my two cents

packmule
05-01-2013, 09:35 AM
I would agree, except competition contributes to loss of deer habitat/available browse. Since consumption is based on body weight it doesn't take near as many elk to eat up the deers' groceries. It's really hard to try to find a balance in it when you don't know what conditions you'll be dealt (precipitation) until after quotas have been set.

tdub24
05-01-2013, 09:35 AM
This is just my opinion, but I think the increased elk abundance puts as much or more pressure on the mule deer as increased mule deer tag quotas....

I do agree, I have hunted many a mountain full of deer then when the elk moved in, the deer moved out. But as time passed, the deer have started to move back in. I see it as when the elk first move in, deer have never heard or seen such a big animal so they get skittish. Once they get acclimated, they move back in. I do think the elk hurt the populations just in their browsing. Deer are picky eaters, have a set routine based on the time of year. If the elk just eat whatever, they sometimes decimate the forage deer would need.

I personally put alot of blame on the tag quotas cause I have been seeing herds and buck quality go up in NE NV over the past few years. Then I see the results from this last year with over half of the hunting kill 3 points or less and I fear in a few years the buck quality will be absolutely pitiful.

BigSurArcher
05-01-2013, 09:55 AM
Then I see the results from this last year with over half of the hunting kill 3 points or less and I fear in a few years the buck quality will be absolutely pitiful.

No kidding. I really wish more states would implement a minimum antler point harvest restriction for everyone but juniors, even if it were on an every other year basis or annual rotation within select adjacent unit groups. At the same time, I understand that not everyone is a "horn hunter," so there are definitely valid arguments for both sides.

tdub24
05-01-2013, 10:05 AM
What I saw over here is the mature bucks obviously went into hiding due to all the road hunters. So all the young bucks with mama got slaughtered. Day after day, trucks would drive by with there little 15" forkie or maybe a 20" three point or multiples proudly displayed in the back of the truck. Then give me s*** for not fullfilling my tag. I truly hope I am significantly wrong and the buck quality will be just fine 3-5 years from now.

packmule
05-01-2013, 10:21 AM
What I saw over here is the mature bucks obviously went into hiding due to all the road hunters. So all the young bucks with mama got slaughtered. Day after day, trucks would drive by with there little 15" forkie or maybe a 20" three point or multiples proudly displayed in the back of the truck. Then give me s*** for not fullfilling my tag. I truly hope I am significantly wrong and the buck quality will be just fine 3-5 years from now.



I've seen that happening in the Gunnison Basin units since the winterkill a few years back. The first cpl years anything that was a 4pt was in serious danger, even if they were just 2yo deer.

In our county here in TX we actually have antler restrictions and it irritates the ever living heck out of me. It promotes high grading of the younger age classes instead of age-based harvest based on what's needed for each age class. But like has been said earlier, not everyone is a horn hunter, but generally the more big horns that are produced the better the place is being managed.

BigSurArcher
05-01-2013, 10:49 AM
I imagine there would be a number of differences between antler restrictions on whitetails vs mule deer. The high grading you talk about is probably more apt to occur in a whitetail hunts, although I could be wrong. It just seems like more young whitetail would have the potential to grow the minimum points required for harvest than a young mule deer.

Packmule, here is an article you may find interesting that pertains to this subject.

http://www.boone-crockett.org/news/featured_story.asp?area=news&ID=152

tdub24- Sorry this has gotten off topic from your original post, hopefully you don't mind?

packmule
05-01-2013, 11:33 AM
Our restrictions are width related. There's no perfect plan to predict what deer will do or what their offspring will do bc of what's unseen in the doe, and recessive traits in the bucks that could emerge. What I have seen are bucks that start life with more points and more of a frame end up doing better than bucks that don't start out that way. I also see a lot of similarities when comparing younger bucks on our place to that of bucks I've left along until they were 5-7 years old. For our scenario, I'm more interested early on in beam lengths and points instead of width, which is just air space and doesn't add a whole lot to score. The more beam they have the more opportunity there is that they can add on points. Mule deer aren't that different when it comes to what they can grow since age, nutrition & genetics are the driving force behind what they are and what they can be. The MLD properties here are starting to produce some great mule deer and pretty much the same effort being put into those places as far as setting age criterias and culling to free up browse is what has been working for the whitetails for years.

tdub24
05-01-2013, 01:06 PM
tdub24- Sorry this has gotten off topic from your original post, hopefully you don't mind?

No worries, conversations "Back at the Tailgate" bounce from here to there and sometimes back around.