PDA

View Full Version : Best all around gun



Hawkes11
07-10-2013, 09:53 PM
I am looking to get a new rifle but not sure what is best. I'm wanting something that I can ethically take every thing from an elk to a pronghorn. Plus I would like to have enough punch that I can take an animal at a longer distance if I must( 500-700 yards). I will be hunting off of my back most of the time also. Does anyone have any gun and/or caliber suggestions?

Bitterroot Bulls
07-10-2013, 10:11 PM
I suppose you are asking about caliber, and not a rifle make/model?

Many cartridges will work for your stated uses if you and your equipment are up to it.

The easiest recommendation is 7mm Remington Magnum, and I heartily recommend it.

packer58
07-10-2013, 10:38 PM
I'll second the 7 mm Rem Mag, you will not be disappointed.

Ikeepitcold
07-10-2013, 10:59 PM
X3 can't go wrong with the 7 mag

shootbrownelk
07-11-2013, 12:20 AM
I'd say a .280 AI...nipping at the big 7's heels, with way less powder & recoil. Just my opinion.

xtreme
07-11-2013, 06:20 AM
7mm all the way The BC is just awesome.

Colorado Cowboy
07-11-2013, 06:46 AM
Somewhere between .264 and .280 is probably where I would want to be if I only owned ONErifle! I shoot a 25-06 for deer and antelope size animals and have a 30-06 and a 300 Wby for elk. I'll be getting a .375 H & H as soon as I find the right gun. Why....just cause I want one!;) 7mm mag is just about right IMHO for a single gun to do the most with.

Kevin Root
07-11-2013, 07:11 AM
I'm shooting my new 7mm Rem Mag this year. So far at the range I'm liking it. :)

Multi-SpeciesHunter
07-11-2013, 08:10 AM
Have heard 7mm can be "wild", as far as accuracy and my friend can't get his to group for the life of him. But as you can see, it is a VERY well liked cartridge. I'm partial to the .300 winnie myself. But that's because that is what I own...not a 7mm.
You also say you will be hunting "off your back" ,so I assume you want a light rifle. Maybe a .270 WSM would do the trick. Them eastman boys seem to like it, and have killed several elk with it. And many many long range shooters are making it their #1 caliber.

So my vote is .270 WSM.

Bitterroot Bulls
07-11-2013, 08:42 AM
Have heard 7mm can be "wild", as far as accuracy and my friend can't get his to group for the life of him. But as you can see, it is a VERY well liked cartridge. I'm partial to the .300 winnie myself. But that's because that is what I own...not a 7mm.
You also say you will be hunting "off your back" ,so I assume you want a light rifle. Maybe a .270 WSM would do the trick. Them eastman boys seem to like it, and have killed several elk with it. And many many long range shooters are making it their #1 caliber.

So my vote is .270 WSM.

I respectfully disagree with most of this. The 7mm Magnum is not an inherently inaccurate cartridge. I have loaded for several that have been boringly accurate, including my current one.

The .300 WM is a great cartridge as well, but offers little ballistic advantage in factory twists and noticeably more recoil than the 7RM.

I have also owned several 270 WSMs that I really liked. The cartridge is certainly capable of your uses, when loaded correctly. However, both of my 270 WSMs were tough on throats and long range bullet selection is tiny in comparison with 7mm.

I actually think the 270 WSM is a great MPBR cartridge since it shoots flat out to moderate ranges.

Colorado Cowboy
07-11-2013, 08:50 AM
Bitterroot is correct. I have never (in my experience) seen a rifle that couldn't be made to shoot well. I'm sure there are plenty out there tho. Bedding, barrel fit and reloading can all help. I'll bet there are literally a million or more of them out there and I have yet to find one during our clubs hunter sight in days that was a problem rifle....owners yes, rifles no:( I had one on a custom mauser action that I let my Brother inlaw talk me out of. Still shoots great 40 years later!

Old Hunter
07-11-2013, 09:18 AM
The .270 will do all you want.

Multi-SpeciesHunter
07-11-2013, 10:29 AM
I respectfully disagree with most of this. The 7mm Magnum is not an inherently inaccurate cartridge. I have loaded for several that have been boringly accurate, including my current one.

The .300 WM is a great cartridge as well, but offers little ballistic advantage in factory twists and noticeably more recoil than the 7RM.

I have also owned several 270 WSMs that I really liked. The cartridge is certainly capable of your uses, when loaded correctly. However, both of my 270 WSMs were tough on throats and long range bullet selection is tiny in comparison with 7mm.

I actually think the 270 WSM is a great MPBR cartridge since it shoots flat out to moderate ranges.

That's alright haha I like these types of debates/conversations. But I don't mind recoil. So my 7 3/4 pound (scoped) 300 WM is great. I'm just saying my friend loves his, but can't get tight groups with any ammo. And I have HEARD it is wild. That is just what I HEARD. It is obviously popular for a reason. I have even considered a 7mm just because it is so popular.

And for long range uses, .270wsm is great. I was assuming he reloads, since it seems like everyone does on here. The 7mm drops slightly more down range, but nothing too drastic. The short action would be a plus (in my mind) if he is "hunting off his back", in a mountain rifle setup.

If a guy reloads, the bullet selection isn't that small. But still gotta stay 130-150 grain, matrix etc. But you may need a different barrel twist with those bullets. I'm sure you have more to play with in a 7mm.

I do think both cals in a 24 inch barrel setup, the wsm takes it. It's ballistics will be equal, if not a bit better in usually a smaller rifle.

Now if you are talking 26" barrel or more, that's another story. 7mm would beat it at the range.

Like I said, I prefer my 300 win mag. But with either of these cals, the elk/deer/hog/lion etc etc will all be dead the same and not know the small differences.

Old Hunter
07-11-2013, 11:12 AM
.300 mag for antelope? I guess if you're a trophy hunter.

Bitterroot Bulls
07-11-2013, 11:22 AM
MSH,

I don't mind recoil. I use a 300 RUM often, but I have grown extra fond of my lightweight Savage 7RM.

There aren't any pills available for a factory-twist .270 WSM that can keep up with the 7 way out there with a slick bullet like the 168 Berger VLD. Then if we allow for faster twist barrels, the 7 mag will really start to shine with the 190 VLD.

Like I said, I liked the cartridge, it just isn't as good all around as the 7RM. It is shorter though, as you mentioned.

OH,

There are plenty of bullets available for the 300 winny that won't tear apart an antelope. I have knocked them down with the 300 RUM (Barnes TSX), and you could "eat up to the hole" as you old-timers say. ;)

Multi-SpeciesHunter
07-11-2013, 11:33 AM
Yeah I love the RUMs. They're barrel burners, but I think by the time im 20 (I'm 17) I'll own one of each haha. And yes, after 50 rounds of my light 300 WM, shooting a light 223 felt nice haha.

And yes I plan on shooting some pronghorn with my 300, 168gr barnes tripple tipped shock with reloader 22 powder. That'll scream through the poor goat 3300 fps haha.

And I forgot to add that a 270 wsm does only have roughly 18 lbs felt recoil where the 7mm is more 21ish and a 300 is 26 pounds. (I believe these are all in 8 pound rifles)Not a big difference but I had forgot to mention it in my rant about the .270 wsm. haha. I'm done now with this debate, both are great cals.

jarheadhunter
07-11-2013, 12:58 PM
.300 mag for antelope? I guess if you're a trophy hunter.

It's not a .50 cal! Shoots the same bullet as a 30-06 just a little faster.

Eberle
07-11-2013, 04:44 PM
I vote 7 mag! Got one, love it. I also shoot a 25-06 for antelope & have killed several deer with it. But don't feel comfortable hunting elk with it.

Hawkes11
07-11-2013, 05:36 PM
So does anyone have any opinions on what rifles would be best to pack in with. I have a rifle carrier on my pack so I can trade a little weight for more accuracy.

I do handload for my rifles so I can try to get the best group out of the rifle possible.

AKaviator
07-11-2013, 05:46 PM
I've never hunted elk, but if I were in your shoes I'd try a H.S. Precision or a Cooper in .280AI or 7mag., for no other reason than I seem to covet having one.

I'm sure loving the Cooper 338-06 I have!

Bitterroot Bulls
07-11-2013, 06:56 PM
Coopers are awesome!

If they are out of your price range, the current production Savages are consistently accurate right out of the box and pretty lightweight. Another good option is the Tikka T3, which has a similar reputation.

Colorado Cowboy
07-11-2013, 08:02 PM
The Savage is pretty hard to beat for the money, especially for a mass produced rifle.

Musket Man
07-11-2013, 08:22 PM
Model 70 Winchester with a bear claw extractor (any model 70 without the post 64 action) in .270 Win is the best all around gun in the world! I could be a bit bias in my opinion but it was worked well for me:)

Ricochet
07-11-2013, 08:22 PM
I have a TC Venture in 30-06 that I got to shoot 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with 165 core-lokts. I was pretty happy to get my gun to shoot good with the cheap stuff. Its sounds like you are not looking for a 30-06 but I would give the TC Venture a good look.

hoshour
07-11-2013, 08:52 PM
I guess I'm showing my age, but as a kid I idolized Jack O'Connor. What didn't he shoot in North America with a .270? It's still a great cartridge.

It's a pretty flat-shooting rifle with far less recoil than a 7mm Mag and enough punch that a well-placed shot will bring down anything you're likely to hunt in the West. When I shot my black bear this spring with my .270 he stumbled hard after my one shot and went about 20 yards before he laid up.

I think the .280 is actually superior but there aren't so many out there and ammo may be tougher to find.

packmule
07-11-2013, 08:53 PM
If recoil tolerance & checkbook aren't an issue take a look at the Titanium Strata by Rifle's Inc....caliber of choice would be 7wsm to keep it SA and under 5lbs.

RUGER M77
07-12-2013, 06:12 AM
Another vote for 7mm rem mag I have one in a Ruger M77 I would like to get another one in a savage 116 Its a very easy cartridge to reload my current favorite load is Hornady 162 sst 60 gr IMR 4831 shoots great

shootbrownelk
07-12-2013, 10:09 AM
I've never hunted elk, but if I were in your shoes I'd try a H.S. Precision or a Cooper in .280AI or 7mag., for no other reason than I seem to covet having one.

I'm sure loving the Cooper 338-06 I have!

I'm with you AK with the .280 A.I. Close results to the big 7, but if you don't reload I guess the 7mag would be a good choice.

shootbrownelk
07-12-2013, 10:16 AM
It's not a .50 cal! Shoots the same bullet as a 30-06 just a little faster.

Using that formula, the .30/378 magnum isn't a .50 either Shoots the same bullet as a 300win.mag just a LOT faster.

packmule
07-12-2013, 11:22 AM
It just gets those 200+ gr bullets started a little flatter.

xtreme
07-12-2013, 03:03 PM
I can't find the need for the 30-378. I looked at it a long time ago but met a shooter coming out of the gun shop. I ask how the 30-378 was working? He showed me hiss new gun, it was a 257 wby, said the 30-378 was to big for him and he shoots a lot and weighs about 300 young pounds. I dropped the idea o shooting a 30-378. Still ok with 7rm but will look at the 280AI. BTW, I don't care what you shoot. The post was about best one gun. If its good enough for women and kids to hunt elk with, why not men?

BobT
07-13-2013, 06:54 AM
Okay, I just read the whole thread and there are a bunch of good responses. My recommendation would for the non handloader be either a .270 Winchester, .30/06 or the aforementioned 7MM RM, take your pick. Since you are a handloader I would add the .264 Winchester to the list, factory ammo can be hit or miss in my experience. The rifle for me would be a Savage 110 or a Stevens 200 and I would use the rest of the budget on a good optic and mounts.
Bob

Jerry
07-13-2013, 02:05 PM
IMHO the Ruger M77 30.06 is without a doubt the hands down go to rifle. More than accurate enough, bullet proof, fairly inexpensive and not bad to look at. Ammo is available at any mom and pop store anywhere. Just my two bits worth!

Old Hunter
07-13-2013, 02:52 PM
I don't think finding ammo is important for a hunter. With all the planning that goes into a hunt. Getting ammo before the hunt should be at the top of the list.

With that said. It's rare to find 06 ammo without .270 right next to it.

Bitterroot Bulls
07-13-2013, 03:05 PM
It's rare to find 06 ammo without .270 right next to it.

And the 7 Mag ammo right on the other side. :)

Jerry
07-13-2013, 03:13 PM
Never mentioned anything about finding ammo, just it's ready availability!

Elkoholic307
07-13-2013, 04:16 PM
For those of you that keep bringing up the 270 Win, read his first post again. He said he wanted to kill elk out to 700 yards. You can't recommend it to everyone just because Jack O'Connor used it. That goes for the 30.06 as well.

nitis
07-13-2013, 04:23 PM
I will chime in and say the 7mm rem is probably the best common commercially produced round

I personally regret selling my 270 wsm. I feel it can do pretty much anything the 7 mag can and I didn't seem to experience the recoil of the 7 mag. And now with the Berger and nosler long range style bullets it has to be a viable option as would the 270 wby

Musket Man
07-13-2013, 06:22 PM
There are alot of good all around calibers. There is no 1 caliber that is perfect for every situation but there are many that will get the job done. IMO it comes down to personal preference and what you plan to hunt and how. The .270 Win serves me well and I did not pick it just because Jack O'Connor used it. lol. I also have no desire to shoot any animal over 400 yards.

ThreeTikkas
07-13-2013, 07:28 PM
Well put Musket Man. It all comes down to individual needs. 400yds is about it for me as well. Oh I've been known to "go long" in the past,but I'm not as into that sort of thing as I was 25 years ago. The big hammers are being rotated out of the safe as well. As I get older,recoil is more noticeable. A session with the 300 Ultra or the T3 338 leaves me with a 3 day hangover and stiff neck. Good old Arthur Itis is making himself known to me. So,why punish myself and shorten my good years afield? I could very easily settle down with a good 270 Win. I've always been a fan of the round. My daughter is currently using my wife"s old 270 to take her venison every year. I lean a little more toward the 30/06 myself. Same basic list of credentials as the 270. The 06 isn't perfect for every circumstance either,but inside 400 yds it comes pretty close. As does the 270,280,308,7 Rem Mag, and a host of other proven chamberings. Unless you have a specific quarry that you feel requires a specific round. My thoughts are find the "Rifle" that you want to spend your time afield with. Brand,model,barrel length,weight.Then choose the chambering in that rifle that best fits your needs. If you're determined to have a .30 Slam-a-bam-a-Wow,and it's only offered in a rifle that is too heavy for your taste,and doesn't fit you well,it's a loosing proposition from the word go. Find a rifle that is an extension of your body,that you love to carry and shoot,it doesn't need to be a fire breathing monster to take game at reasonable yardages.

Colorado Cowboy
07-13-2013, 08:58 PM
Well put Musket Man. It all comes down to individual needs. 400yds is about it for me as well. Oh I've been known to "go long" in the past,but I'm not as into that sort of thing as I was 25 years ago. The big hammers are being rotated out of the safe as well. As I get older,recoil is more noticeable. A session with the 300 Ultra or the T3 338 leaves me with a 3 day hangover and stiff neck. Good old Arthur Itis is making himself known to me. So,why punish myself and shorten my good years afield? I could very easily settle down with a good 270 Win. I've always been a fan of the round. My daughter is currently using my wife"s old 270 to take her venison every year. I lean a little more toward the 30/06 myself. Same basic list of credentials as the 270. The 06 isn't perfect for every circumstance either,but inside 400 yds it comes pretty close. As does the 270,280,308,7 Rem Mag, and a host of other proven chamberings. Unless you have a specific quarry that you feel requires a specific round. My thoughts are find the "Rifle" that you want to spend your time afield with. Brand,model,barrel length,weight.Then choose the chambering in that rifle that best fits your needs. If you're determined to have a .30 Slam-a-bam-a-Wow,and it's only offered in a rifle that is too heavy for your taste,and doesn't fit you well,it's a loosing proposition from the word go. Find a rifle that is an extension of your body,that you love to carry and shoot,it doesn't need to be a fire breathing monster to take game at reasonable yardages.

Well said my man! I love my Ruger M77 in 25-06 for everything deer sized and smaller. If I didn't have a muzzle brake on my .300 Wby, I'd be shooting my 30-06 on everything else. I do like the Wby because it is flatter shooting with a 180/200 gr bullet than the 30-06. I could get by with 2 rifles and be very happy. I'm over 70 now and the lighter rifles I have are sure a lot easier to carry and have recoil that I can live with.

Elkoholic307
07-13-2013, 11:51 PM
I also have no desire to shoot any animal over 400 yards.

Hawkes11 apparently does, which is why the 270 would be a poor choice.

Old Hunter
07-14-2013, 09:51 AM
The .270 is fine for 700 yd shots on elk.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/270wsm-max-elk-range-65994/



Too many are suckered into the magnum craze.

trkytrack2
07-14-2013, 10:30 AM
Remington 700...30-06. Say no more.

Elkoholic307
07-14-2013, 09:21 PM
The .270 is fine for 700 yd shots on elk.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/270wsm-max-elk-range-65994/



Too many are suckered into the magnum craze.

No, it's not. I could post links all day long of elk that were killed at long range with a 6mm but it still doesn't make it a good choice.

Musket Man
07-14-2013, 10:07 PM
I think the .270 is getting a bit low on energy for an elk much past 400 yards. Just my opinion.

packmule
07-14-2013, 10:27 PM
the short mag will DRT them at 600 w/ 140gr ABs...witnessed that on some cows a cpl years ago. Could the person have gotten closer? Sure... but cows were about to cross a road.

BobT
07-15-2013, 04:29 AM
No, it's not. I could post links all day long of elk that were killed at long range with a 6mm but it still doesn't make it a good choice.

I have to agree with this and I'm a .270 lover from way back. My thoughts in recommending what I did were that by the time the OP was competent enough to shoot at something 700 yards away that he would realize a light weight rifle was not the correct tool for the job. On an elk sized animal at long range (lets say over 400 yards for the sake of argument) I would want a minimum of .30 caliber and a heavy for caliber bullet, the rifle wouldn't be a light weight either.

Bob

Old Hunter
07-15-2013, 08:55 AM
Over 1500lbs of energy isn't enough to kill an elk? Not if you hit it in the ass it's not, but it sure is through the lungs. Then again, I don't think 700 yd shots should be taken by everybody who thinks they can do them.

Maybe using a caliber that won't work at 700 yds will make you a better hunter.

Elkoholic307
07-15-2013, 09:12 AM
This thread isn't about whether or not a 270 will kill an elk. It's titled, "Best All Around Gun" and the OP wants enough punch to kill elk out to 700 yards. If you seriously think the 270 Win is it, then by all means keep suggesting it. But, I still couldn't disagree more. There are so many better options out there, it would be silly to settle on the 270 Win when that is your goal.

Old Hunter
07-15-2013, 11:56 AM
I might agree if he asked for just elk, but he wants one gun for elk to antelope. He's really asking for a compromise gun, and I feel the .270 fits that perfect.

Hopefully, he won't really need to take those 700 yd shots.

packmule
07-15-2013, 12:30 PM
7mag and 300wm covers all and can make those long shots if that's what you're into.

Hawkes11
07-15-2013, 01:37 PM
I don't plan on shooting anything at 700 yard but it's about having the ability and the confidence in the rifle that you have on your back. I hope that I only have to shoot animals out to 300 yards. I take whitetail at this distance with my 22-250 so I know it's all about shot placement. Knowing this if a true monster steps out at 700 yards that I can't get closer to I want a rifle in my hand that I can take him home with.

Bitterroot Bulls
07-15-2013, 01:49 PM
Knowing this if a true monster steps out at 700 yards that I can't get closer to I want a rifle in my hand that I can take him home with.

Knowing you have a capable rifle in your hands plays a much smaller part in a successful 700 yard shot than knowing the rifle is in capable hands.






Edit: I can see the beginning of the end to this thread...

tdub24
07-15-2013, 02:24 PM
Edit: I can see the beginning of the end to this thread...

I was thinking end it now before it even gets to that point. There is enough information all ready given to help the original poster with question. My two cents, .270WSM and forget about it!

Old Hunter
07-15-2013, 03:18 PM
I don't plan on shooting anything at 700 yard but it's about having the ability and the confidence in the rifle that you have on your back. I hope that I only have to shoot animals out to 300 yards. I take whitetail at this distance with my 22-250 so I know it's all about shot placement. Knowing this if a true monster steps out at 700 yards that I can't get closer to I want a rifle in my hand that I can take him home with.


Getting a 700yd shot on antelope is pretty normal. Mulies too. In the link I posted one guy took an elk at 865 yds with a .270, so it's safe to say it will work fine at 700 yds. The problem with the bigger magnums is it's going to tear up the smaller animals you want to hunt. It's your choice though.

ThreeTikkas
07-15-2013, 03:31 PM
This thread isn't about whether or not a 270 will kill an elk. It's titled, "Best All Around Gun" and the OP wants enough punch to kill elk out to 700 yards. If you seriously think the 270 Win is it, then by all means keep suggesting it. But, I still couldn't disagree more. There are so many better options out there, it would be silly to settle on the 270 Win when that is your goal.

+1. Good point Elkoholic. Absolutely there are much better rigs for 700 yd shots at big heavy game. Goals are what drive us to continue improving as marksmen and hunters. As long as the person setting these goals has gone to a 1,000 yd range and taken a good hard look at what 700 yards is. Cut a piece of cardboard the size of elk vitals. Then start learning what kind of drop and drift it takes to hit that 16 or 18" square. Having a mountain weight rig chambered in the caliber for that task isn;t going to be a sure thing in anyone's hands. The "just in case" rifle isn't going to ideal for a high percentage shot,in field conditions,at 700 yds. A dedicated long range rig is going to be heavy. You are going to know your drift and drop figures. If you don't know about wind flags,you should pick up a set. There are folks out there that don't believe the 338 Edge is effected by wind. Lots of things working against even seasoned marksmen beyond 400 yards,with toting weight rifles. Along the lines of the best all around gun this it in a nut shell. In the rifle that you want to carry. Up hill and down. Loaded pack and all. You have to be able to put your shots in that 18" square under field conditions. If you can do it with an 8.5 lb 340 Weatherby, 300 Ultra,338 Ultra or 338 Edge then that is the rig to run with. If you don't like the recoil in this configuration you have 2 choices. More weight or a milder round. At what yardage you loose the vital accuracy/kenetic energy becomes your practical hunting range for taking game. I'm not trying to be a smart a-hole,but these are the things folks tend to forget when taking a desperation poke at a critter once every 5 years. I don't care to carry around the scope and rifle necessary to close the deal should one walk out at 700. No offense intended in any way. Just my 2 cents.

packmule
07-15-2013, 03:53 PM
Getting a 700yd shot on antelope is pretty normal. Mulies too. In the link I posted one guy took an elk at 865 yds with a .270, so it's safe to say it will work fine at 700 yds. The problem with the bigger magnums is it's going to tear up the smaller animals you want to hunt. It's your choice though.


I've shot a ton of our "rabbit-size" deer with a 300wm bc that's been my choice of rifle since I was 12; it really doesn't tear them up any worse than a 270. I see worse out of 22-250-like & 257Roy, the soft tissue just can't tolerate that kind of speed.

87TT
07-15-2013, 04:46 PM
I'm sorry but 700 or really 400 yard shots aren't "hunting", that's just "killing". I have a Ruger m77r 30 06 with a plain old 2x7 scope. 34 years it hasn't let me down. Several elk and I've lost count of the deer. I did replace the stock with a Bell&Carlson synthetic stock about 30 years ago.

Elkoholic307
07-15-2013, 05:34 PM
Then I should return the hunting licenses I bought back to Game & Fish and ask for killing licenses instead.

Let's try and stay on topic and leave personal views and ethics out of this thread for once.

Elkoholic307
07-15-2013, 05:41 PM
The problem with the bigger magnums is it's going to tear up the smaller animals you want to hunt. It's your choice though.

This myth will just not go away! How many times do we need to bust it?

Buy a 7mm, you won't regret it... and don't be afraid of the word, 'magnum' in the name.

87TT
07-15-2013, 06:12 PM
Then I should return the hunting licenses I bought back to Game & Fish and ask for killing licenses instead.

Let's try and stay on topic and leave personal views and ethics out of this thread for once.
Ok,my bad, ethics have no business in hunting. Get a 30 06 or other similar and practice practice practice.

packmule
07-15-2013, 06:20 PM
There's the wsm...

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g328/newbie936/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1087_zps30e56d1a.png

Old Hunter
07-15-2013, 07:14 PM
This myth will just not go away! How many times do we need to bust it?

Buy a 7mm, you won't regret it... and don't be afraid of the word, 'magnum' in the name.

I've seen that myth in meat damage to say there's nothing to it.

Muzz
07-15-2013, 07:54 PM
Being new to this site I don't want to pi$$ anyone off but why go with the 7mm when you can get a 280 to do the same thing with less powder and less recoil? Ill shoot my 280 against anything out there. Whats the point of a magnum? Shoot what you shoot well and put the bullet were its supposed to go. Lights out.

Bitterroot Bulls
07-15-2013, 07:54 PM
I've seen that myth in meat damage to say there's nothing to it.

A 30-06 shooting the 180 Sierra Gameking hits the target at 200 yards at the same impact velocity as the 300 WM does at 350 yards with the same bullet. Although the ranges are different, the performance and meat damage will be the same.

I have personally witness very high impact velocities with low amounts of meat damage. Barnes bullets are particularly good for avoiding excessive damage to the meat with high velocity impacts, due to the bullet's construction.

Bitterroot Bulls
07-15-2013, 07:56 PM
Being new to this site I don't want to pi$$ anyone off but why go with the 7mm when you can get a 280 to do the same thing with less powder and less recoil? Ill shoot my 280 against anything out there. Whats the point of a magnum? Shoot what you shoot well and put the bullet were its supposed to go. Lights out.

The 280 is a fine cartridge, but of course does NOT do the "same thing" as the 7 RM. It fires the same bullets slower, and so the 7 RM has more range. As mentioned before, it is also not a heavy recoiling round, despite the "magnum" moniker.

Muzz
07-15-2013, 08:06 PM
my 280 shoots 140 grain nosler accubonds at 3100FPS. there isn't a 7 mag at the range that shoots faster then that. Three guys have sold there 7's and went to the 280 and they love them. Not trashing the 7 mag but I just don't see the point. I have owned two of them and didn't mind them but just wasn't a need for all the extra powder.

Elkoholic307
07-15-2013, 08:23 PM
I'm working up a load for my 7 Mag right now and am shooting 180 Bergers over 3000 fps. Haven't reached max yet and will likely end up around 3050 fps with the big 180s. With that bc at that speed, there isn't much that can touch it.

AKaviator
07-15-2013, 08:29 PM
Wow, were getting into picking some mighty small nits here. You could argue that any of about 30 different calibers in any good quality rifle that fits would fit the bill. Most of this is just personal opinion anyway. I sort of like the .375h&h or .338 win for up here.

Musket Man
07-15-2013, 08:42 PM
Isnt the .280 a necked down 30-06? I always thought the .280 was pretty comparable to the .270, just a slightly bigger bullet? I really like the .270 WSM and if I didnt have my trusty .270 Win and I were looking for a new gun I would seriously consider it. I think meat damage has alot more to do with shot placement then the caliber. Any caliber will do alot of damage if it hits in the wrong place. Not that many of these places wont pile an animal up dead in their tracks with 1 shot but there will be alot more damage then a double lung shot.

Bitterroot Bulls
07-15-2013, 08:57 PM
my 280 shoots 140 grain nosler accubonds at 3100FPS. there isn't a 7 mag at the range that shoots faster then that. Three guys have sold there 7's and went to the 280 and they love them. Not trashing the 7 mag but I just don't see the point. I have owned two of them and didn't mind them but just wasn't a need for all the extra powder.

I have loaded the 7 RM to 3360 with the 140 AB, and that is within the book charges.

My current 160 AB load is around 3000, and 3100 is easy to do with several powders.

There is no getting around physics. More powder, same bullet, more speed. There are diminishing returns for sure, but the fact remains.

chasingAZelk
07-15-2013, 09:02 PM
My recommendation is a 270 or a 7mm. Both are very good rifles and both have great knock down power IMO. In all honesty you just need to go to a gun store and get your hands on a gun. You want to know the weight and feel of the rifle.....

packmule
07-15-2013, 09:17 PM
my 280 shoots 140 grain nosler accubonds at 3100FPS. there isn't a 7 mag at the range that shoots faster then that. Three guys have sold there 7's and went to the 280 and they love them. Not trashing the 7 mag but I just don't see the point. I have owned two of them and didn't mind them but just wasn't a need for all the extra powder.

They'll get over 3100 pushing 160gr ABs...and you actually have room to seat w/o compressing.

ThreeTikkas
07-16-2013, 04:08 AM
I'm working up a load for my 7 Mag right now and am shooting 180 Bergers over 3000 fps. Haven't reached max yet and will likely end up around 3050 fps with the big 180s. With that bc at that speed, there isn't much that can touch it.

You just defined my dream rifle. I'm currently working with a gunsmith specking out my everything rig. One very nice,very accurate rifle for deer,elk,and moose. I wrote a little piece to submit to a small hunting publication a while back. Never sent it in. The gist of it was this. I never thought about the 7 RM as anything but annoying. I was sick of hearing about it. I use to think it's velocities were lame for a magnum. Especially with the 175/180gr pills. No match for the big .30s. Forget about it when the big 338s were the topic of the day. Then I took one in on trade. Worked with it out of spite mostly. figured I'd bury the thing once and for all. Laugh at it a bit. Then trade it off for something else. My dream rifle is the 7 RM. My 338 T3 named Clubber was a bone crusher. Can't take anything away from it as a pure killing machine. Old Cruncher,my 300 Ultra carried the mail. Hitting harder at 400 yards than a lot of conventional rounds at 100. But, the 7 Remmy is a joy to shoot. I like to work from prone when practical. Not a problem with even an 8# T3. Great velocity with the deer size bullets. The big 180s are nothing shy of ballistic marvels. The Berger you mentioned comes to mind when discussing long range bullets. 60 to 65 grains of powder isn't a lot. I load 180 grain 30/06 bullets over 60gr of RL22 . The 7 Rem Mag isn't a powder incinerator like my 300 Ultra. The 180gr elk loads I carried in it were 89 gr! Not maximum at that. Now we're burning some coal. Efficient,pleasant,great selection of bullets,and available where ammo is sold. If factory fodder is the order of the day. Maybe as popular as the old ought 6 I love so much. Again,there is no cartridge that's perfect for every critter at every range. They are all a compromise on either end of the spectrum. My little mountain weight 243 is pure whitetail poison. I'd feel a lot better with old Clubber the 338 in hand if I lived in AK. What's in between these two? Lots! That's the beauty of having all these rounds at our beck and call. I've spent nearly 40 years playing with all these different offerings. Had a blast doing it too.

xtreme
07-16-2013, 07:32 AM
I have posted many times about my go to round. The 168 Berger going 3067fps from my Browning A-bolt. The same round works best on coyotes too. The 22-250 is not as good but is maybe safer and quieter in the country side. My best gun to carry is the 243wssm with 55gr going 4060fps, down side is the report, its loud. The Z5 maybe the reason I like shooting it best. The 7mm has a VX-7 which is really good but not as easy to get along with as the Z5.
Instead of which gun, maybe the scope plays as much or more a part in what works in the field. The Nikon on my 22-250 is not as much to my liking. I have never owned a 270, probably never will, not anything against the 270. I just don't have the need for it. Its too close to the 7rm which has an advantage due to the amazing ammo available. Anyway if you make a choice of any of the rounds listed in this post, it will be fine. I am looking at that 280, sounds good so far.

nitis
07-16-2013, 08:35 AM
280 AI is a great compromise as you can really close the gap between the velocities of the 280 and 7mag without the recoil and there is brass available so no need to spend time for forming

tttoadman
07-21-2013, 11:22 PM
I see this has run its course, but I will throw out my simple opinions as a person with "one" hunting rifle and I use nothing but box loads.

I use a REM 300 WM with a synthetic stock. I don't have a brake or any add ons. I run a VX-II 40MM instead of a 50MM just because I thought the size and the weight would be better for me. I have recently set this up with the Barnes solid copper 165Gr and I will likely never use anything else. I agree with Bitteroot about the bullet fragmentation causing the most damage.

My family is simple like me, and we all primarily have a single gun for everything. We shoot deer with my 300WM and my mom has shot a number of elk with a .243. My niece shoots a .270. My brother shoots a 30-06. I think the only decision left for you is to pick your "most likely" shot opportunities. The .270 is quicker to swing in the brush and will still reach out there quite a ways. The magnum barrels on the (likely) heavier guns kinda suck to swing around in the brush, but they are obviously better to reach out there 400 to 700 yards. I agree that it is a guessing game why one shot tears up and animal and the next one doesn't, which means that is something I don't worry about. Get the package that allows you to make the best shots, and you will be doing your best to avoid torn up animals. My 300 with barnes coppers does a hell of lot less damage than my brothers 06 using the hornady superformance SST.

Alabama
07-22-2013, 12:46 AM
A daisy custom air rifle. 17 pumps of the stock. A bb in back of a pellet. 462 fps. Loaded for Bear, Rhino, Elephant, etc.

shootbrownelk
07-22-2013, 09:30 PM
280 AI is a great compromise as you can really close the gap between the velocities of the 280 and 7mag without the recoil and there is brass available so no need to spend time for forming

Pop a cap in a standard Rem.280 in an A.I. chamber and you fireform it instantly. No need to reform.

SansSouci
11-03-2013, 07:16 PM
The objective of hunting is to cause the destruction of vital organs; e.g. heart and/or lungs. What caliber & bullet accomplishes this objective is immaterial. As long as caliber & bullet penetrates vital organs, animals will die. Nothing will live long w/o functioning heart and/or lungs. That's merely simple biology.

God only knows how many North American big game animals have fallen to surplus .303 British rifles and Winchester 94's.

If I were to begin anew I'd buy a .280 Remington and never look back. But what I knew when I did buy big game rifles wasn't what I should have known. That hindsight bromide does come into play.

The two most accurate rifles I have fired were both chambered for 7MM Rem Mag, one a 700 ADL & the other a Sako. Both shot quarter-size groups.

The benefit of .284 caliber is sectional density. .284 bullets have mystical ability to penetrate.

Hunters should buy rifles that are right for them. Some hunters don't. Last year I watched a studly dude who was probably in his mid-30's sight in his brand new .300 Win Mag. He told me it was his first big game rifle. Up until that point he used relatives' rifles. His groups were about 6" at a hundred yards. He flinched with every round. He borrowed my shooting rest. He still flinched. After nearly a box of empty cases, he told me that he couldn't continue because of shoulder pain. In contrast, I had about a .75" group a couple inches high & dead center at a hundred yards. I was shooting a .308 Win. One shot, one buck. I hope that that dude did as well.

While I love the 7MM Rem Mag, it is not necessary to kill any big game animal. The 7x57 was performing that task quite admirably before the 7MM Rem Mag came along. Whatever a .300 Win Mag will do -with very few exceptions- so will an '06 or .308 Win. It's all about where a bullet winds up. A .243 Win in vitals is a lot better than an '06 in guts.

Did I mention that were I to start anew I'd buy a .280 Rem & never look back?

I hope this helps.

SansSouci
11-03-2013, 07:18 PM
Being new to this site I don't want to pi$$ anyone off but why go with the 7mm when you can get a 280 to do the same thing with less powder and less recoil? Ill shoot my 280 against anything out there. Whats the point of a magnum? Shoot what you shoot well and put the bullet were its supposed to go. Lights out.

There's the answer right there!

xtreme
11-03-2013, 07:45 PM
My brother shot his 6.5x.284 with Berger 140 gr going 3150fps. BC is 618 I think. I was impressed. His gun was built by a world class gunsmith.