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CoHiCntry
08-23-2013, 06:57 PM
Thor...Finally had a chance to try out the Thor bullets today at the range. I tried both the .502 & .503 in 250 grain. Although I could get the .503 from the sizing pack Thor sends down the barrel at home, I could not get the bullets down today at the range. The .502 goes down pretty stiff but is acceptable. The problem is trying to get a second one down after the barrels fouled. It's really hard to get down even using my "range rod" which is longer, heavier duty, and has a larger T-handle then the ram rod on my gun to use in the field. I'm afraid if I had to make a follow up shot in the field I would have a really hard time getting the bullet down. I'd also be afraid of not getting it seated on the powder well enough. It seemed like my ram rod went down 1/4 to 1/2 inch less on the second shots. I'm assuming because of the fouling building up as you push the bullet down? I'm thinking of trying the .501 instead. I would like to be able to get two shots off, preferably three before having to swab the barrel. Other than the loading issue they seemed to pattern really well. just over a 1" group at 50 yds. using fiber optic sites. That's probably as tight a group as I've ever gotten with any muzzleloader bullet using open sites.

No Excuses... I tried the 460 grain a few years ago but couldn't remember the results so I ordered some more to try out. Now I know why I didn't use them. These bullets loaded great, nice and smooth even though there .503. I'm sure the pre-lube helps. They were all over the place. I would shoot one, then the next might be 3 inches or 6 inches away. Nothing consistent. Too bad, I like the idea of the big lead conical. I would still like to use these in another gun before writing them off. I know other guy's have had good luck. For the record, I shoot a T/C Omega which I've learned does not like big conicals, which is probably why.

Powerbelts... I started several years ago with the power belt 295 grain aero tip and have killed a few animals with it including elk. I've never much cared for the bullet and the reports from others haven't been good. Here's what I will say... the powerbelt loaded great with the barrel fouled even after two shots which is a huge bonus. I only shot a few but got just over 2" groups. I only wish they were a better constructed bullet and held up better. The loading is so nice, it makes me want to use them.

I'll probably be using either the .502 or .501 Thor bullet this year. I still need to try out the .501 first. Need to get some on order so I'm not still trying to get the muzzleloader dialed in while I should be out archery hunting!

Old Hunter
08-23-2013, 08:44 PM
What powder are you using? I always used BH 209 with Thors, and could load 50 in a row with no swabbing, and they were a tight fit to start off with. Actually, BH seemed to lube the bore, as it seemed they loaded easier the more I shot.

T7 on the other hand is a swab every shot. I hate that crap!

CoHiCntry
08-23-2013, 09:05 PM
What powder are you using? I always used BH 209 with Thors, and could load 50 in a row with no swabbing, and they were a tight fit to start off with. Actually, BH seemed to lube the bore, as it seemed they loaded easier the more I shot.

T7 on the other hand is a swab every shot. I hate that crap!

I'm using T7. Maybe I should try the BH209? Thanks for the tip...

Old Hunter
08-23-2013, 09:40 PM
Yeah, T7 leaves a crud ring right above the charge. You won't get that at all with BH 209. Don't be tempted to swab during shooting sessions. It's actually more accurate to not swab at all until you're done shooting.

Also, in case your don't know. You use the same solvents to clean BH 209 that you do for your CF guns. DON'T use black powder products, water and soap etc to clean BH 209.

If you haven't already guessed. BH 209 is basically a smokeless powder that's been detuned to black powder power. So, it loads with the same volume loads as T7.

FrontierMuzzleloading
08-23-2013, 10:44 PM
With T7, You'll get the nastiest crud ring down at the breech. Make SURE you mark your ramrod on a clean barrel so you have a witness mark. Not seating the bullet all the way can ruin your day in more ways than one. And the biggest one isnt very clean.

What rifle are you shooting again?

CoHiCntry
08-24-2013, 06:20 AM
With T7, You'll get the nastiest crud ring down at the breech. Make SURE you mark your ramrod on a clean barrel so you have a witness mark. Not seating the bullet all the way can ruin your day in more ways than one. And the biggest one isnt very clean.

What rifle are you shooting again?

T/C Omega .50 cal.

Old Hunter
08-24-2013, 09:48 AM
Good! You have the perfect breech plug to shoot BH 209. Just make sure you use shotgun 209 primers, and not the 209 primers made for muzzleloaders. They have a weaker flame to keep the crud ring down with T7. They aren't hot enough to ignite BH 209.

If they say anything about muzzleloaders on the package of primers. Don't use them.

Musket Man
08-25-2013, 07:29 AM
I used triple 7 fffg and hornady FPB's when I went to CO last. It shot well in my Knight disc extreme.

Kentucky hunter
08-26-2013, 09:19 AM
I heard they will send you a sample pack of different sizes to fit your gun.

Old Hunter
08-26-2013, 10:42 AM
He will. Just e-mail Terry, and he'll send it right out.

CoHiCntry
08-26-2013, 09:46 PM
I heard they will send you a sample pack of different sizes to fit your gun.

I got the sample pack. The weird thing is I was able to get all of them down without much trouble. Including the biggest .503. Not sure why the bullets were so much harder to load than the sample pack bullets? I ordered more bullets and am trying to find some BH209 but Sportsmans is the only place close to buy it and of course they're out of stock.

Old Hunter
08-27-2013, 09:24 AM
This is your best source for BH 209, or any ML supplies. Ask for Carlos.

Ed's Gun Shop
5560 US 1 HWY
Vass, NC 28394
(910) 692-7936
(910) 692-4867 fax
sales@edsgunshop.com or vilorio2005@aol.com

Hours:
M - F - 9am - 6pm
Sat - 9am - 5pm
Sun - Closed

Kentucky hunter
08-27-2013, 09:43 AM
This is for you guys that shoot open sights I was shooting my t/c pro hunter with 150gr t7 win 209 primers an 245 power belts it shoots high with sights bottemed out at 50yd 100yd an 200yd should I lower the power charge or go to a bigger bullet or am I sighting wrong? Need some help guys!

Umpqua Hunter
08-27-2013, 09:50 AM
This is for you guys that shoot open sights I was shooting my t/c pro hunter with 150gr t7 win 209 primers an 245 power belts it shoots high with sights bottemed out at 50yd 100yd an 200yd should I lower the power charge or go to a bigger bullet or am I sighting wrong? Need some help guys!

Buy a longer front sight, or you could aim off of the top of the front sight if that changes things enough.

Don't change your load if it's shooting well, although 150 grains is a pretty hot load. I would typically shoot between 80 and 100 grains of T7. Loose powder is typically more accurate than pellets. If it's legal where you hunt, Blackhorn 209 is the best powder available.

Old Hunter
08-27-2013, 10:01 AM
A 150gr with a 245 gr Powerbelt is a bad combination. That bullet is known to break apart with high velocities. I'd use a bullet with better construction, or lower the powder charge to 100gr.

What game are you hunting? With your location i'm guessing whitetails? If so, 100gr is more than enough with iron sights. If it's elk, and you want to stick with Powerbelts. I'd switch to the 338gr Powerbelt Platinum, and lower the powder to 110-120gr.

btw You aren't going to shoot 200 yds with iron sights are you?

Kentucky hunter
08-27-2013, 10:47 AM
Was cking at 200yd to see if it would fall into the target sense it was so high at 100yd still about 12in high at 200yd but had an ok group even at 200yd. We were shooting our rifles at 200yd for our 1st season elk tags. Next year going to start putting in for Colorado muzzleloader tag.

Kentucky hunter
08-27-2013, 10:52 AM
Were may I fine a longer sight for the pro hunter an if I was going to aim off of the top of the sight I would have to aim at the nottem of the belly of an elk to hit in the middle an possibly lower on a deer. I like the idea of aim off the top of the sight you see more of your target

Old Hunter
08-27-2013, 10:53 AM
You need a much better bullet for elk.

FrontierMuzzleloading
08-27-2013, 01:55 PM
150gr - 245gr powerbelt + elk = an expensive hunt that ended with a wounded elk that was never recovered. The bullet you are using is BARELY good enough for deer. You're just going to screw yourself if any of you try shooting an elk with it.

Kentucky hunter
08-27-2013, 03:15 PM
150gr - 245gr powerbelt + elk = an expensive hunt that ended with a wounded elk that was never recovered. The bullet you are using is BARELY good enough for deer. You're just going to screw yourself if any of you try shooting an elk with it.

What bullets do you shoot I have looked at thor bullets theres not many full bore bullets out here in the east just picked them up on sale to try. We can hunt with scopes an sabots bullets here.

Old Hunter
08-27-2013, 03:22 PM
He'll tell you the same thing I will. Thor, Barnes, or a 338 Powerbelt Platinum if you want to shoot PB's. I'm a mod on his forum, and sometimes we hunt together. We think alike.

Lots of options if you want to shoot heavy lead conicals, but if you can shoot sabots. Try the 290gr Barnes. A pretty proven bullet that will take an elk easily.

tdub24
08-27-2013, 03:23 PM
I have the TC Pro Hunter and shoot 150 grains Pyrodex pellets pushing a 300 grain TC shockwave sabot. My normal group with open sights off a bench rest is around 2".

Killed this buck at 110 yards.
6339

Killed this bull at 170 yards. He walked 10 feet and tipped over.
6340

I tried different loads with different sabots and was unable to get anything on paper let alone group up. I have not tried loose powder...............yet. I am going to try the Thor bullets just to see how they compare to what I got going on now. I just dont feel the need to mess with anything right now since the current load killed 2 in 2 shots. Was unimpressed on how the bullet mushroomed on the elk though.

Just my 2 cents!

Kentucky hunter
08-27-2013, 03:57 PM
He'll tell you the same thing I will. Thor, Barnes, or a 338 Powerbelt Platinum if you want to shoot PB's. I'm a mod on his forum, and sometimes we hunt together. We think alike.

Lots of options if you want to shoot heavy lead conicals, but if you can shoot sabots. Try the 290gr Barnes. A pretty proven bullet that will take an elk easily.

250gr thors or 300gr whats the best that you think old hunt

Old Hunter
08-27-2013, 04:29 PM
They'll both work ok, but the 300gr will give you a little extra hitting power if you hit a bone.

The only negative about Thor's is they can be a bit finicky getting the right fit. The Barnes sabot is the same bullet, and it's much easier to get a good tight fit.

I assume you know Barnes makes Thor's, and I doubt you can get any 300gr Thors this time of year. He was out the last time I heard.

FrontierMuzzleloading
08-27-2013, 04:52 PM
old hunter is correct on the conical info he has given for elk

I much prefer the thor as its solid copper and expands greatly and leaves huge holes in the game they hit. They can be bore size picky at times, old cva's Pre 2008 are often small in bore size and thors wont fit them, same with the traditions sidelock guns.

The best bet, let me know what gun you have, the ignition type " 209 - #11 ect" what caliber and the powder you plan on using. This is the easiest way for me to help get you started without confusing you with a try this or that list. If youre hunting colorado, I'll give you that info on what to use to stay legal and if you hunt other places where sabots are legal, i'll get you set up in that department as well.

Old Hunter
08-27-2013, 06:15 PM
He said he can use sabots in his state. That's why I think the Barnes is a good choice. I doubt he can get Thors now. What do you think? Isn't Terry out of them?

FrontierMuzzleloading
08-27-2013, 06:20 PM
hes out of the 300s but has the 250s in stock for a little while.

Old Hunter
08-27-2013, 07:45 PM
I think the 290gr Barnes is a better bet for him. He'll be sure of a nice tight fit. He'll have to swab with the crappy T7 though.

Kentucky hunter
08-28-2013, 09:04 AM
old hunter is correct on the conical info he has given for elk

I much prefer the thor as its solid copper and expands greatly and leaves huge holes in the game they hit. They can be bore size picky at times, old cva's Pre 2008 are often small in bore size and thors wont fit them, same with the traditions sidelock guns.

The best bet, let me know what gun you have, the ignition type " 209 - #11 ect" what caliber and the powder you plan on using. This is the easiest way for me to help get you started without confusing you with a try this or that list. If youre hunting colorado, I'll give you that info on what to use to stay legal and if you hunt other places where sabots are legal, i'll get you set up in that department as well.

I have a t/c pro hunter xt Im shooting win 209 shotgun primers an thinking about changing over to bh209 after shooting up my t7 powder I have shot muzzleloaders for years just new to the open sights an full bore hunting in Colorado I will get some thors later this year an try them out next spring an work a load that shoots best Thanks for the info

Kentucky hunter
08-28-2013, 09:08 AM
He said he can use sabots in his state. That's why I think the Barnes is a good choice. I doubt he can get Thors now. What do you think? Isn't Terry out of them?

Yes Old Hunter shoot t/c shock waves an barnes sabots here at home an used boned t/c shock waves in 08 on a NM elk hunt they held up well

jarheadhunter
08-28-2013, 12:15 PM
OP I have the same problem with the Thor's. I could get the first one in with a little pressure. Then the next I would have to pound on the ram rod in order to get it down the barrel. I am also concerned about a follow up shot with them. I would have to buy a new breech plug to use BH209 in my CVA Accura V2. I have been talking to a bunch of people and I am starting to think I may just go with the PB. They load great even after 20 shots and are really accurate in my ML. A few of my buddies I have talked to said they have been using PB since they came out and have never had a problem with them. Do you really need expansion on a bullet that is already a .50 cal? I know it prob helps, but most rifle bullets don't even open that much.

I will make another trip out with the Thor's and see if I can figure something out. Would like to use them, but not if it means that I can't get a follow up shot if need be.

CoHiCntry
08-28-2013, 02:40 PM
OP I have the same problem with the Thor's. I could get the first one in with a little pressure. Then the next I would have to pound on the ram rod in order to get it down the barrel. I am also concerned about a follow up shot with them. I would have to buy a new breech plug to use BH209 in my CVA Accura V2. I have been talking to a bunch of people and I am starting to think I may just go with the PB. They load great even after 20 shots and are really accurate in my ML. A few of my buddies I have talked to said they have been using PB since they came out and have never had a problem with them. Do you really need expansion on a bullet that is already a .50 cal? I know it prob helps, but most rifle bullets don't even open that much.

I will make another trip out with the Thor's and see if I can figure something out. Would like to use them, but not if it means that I can't get a follow up shot if need be.

Have you tried T7 or Kleene bore primers? I guess these primers may eliminate or at least decrease the "crud ring" left behind from using T7 powder. Maybe a second or third load would go down easier using these? I'm gonna give it a try since I have T7 powder left. I got the smaller .501 in the mail today. Hopefully the smaller diameter bullet will be enough to get in a second load without swabbing? Will see... I also wanna try the BH209 as well.

Old Hunter
08-28-2013, 02:41 PM
Expansion is not the problem with Powerbelts. Over expansion is the problem. Just don't push them too fast, and they work fine if you match the bullet weight to the animal.

jarheadhunter
08-28-2013, 03:00 PM
I am using the T7 primers with 100 GR Hodgdon T7 powder. I don't think it helped much.

CoHiCntry
08-28-2013, 03:44 PM
I am using the T7 primers with 100 GR Hodgdon T7 powder. I don't think it helped much.

Have you thought about using a smaller diameter Thor?

jarheadhunter
08-28-2013, 04:01 PM
Have you thought about using a smaller diameter Thor?

I thought about it. I am using the .501 because the .500 I could basically push it in lightly with my finger and it would drop by itself. The .501 I am using were not bad starting out with the first one and showed rifling marks on the side. The .500 showed no sings of rifling.

CoHiCntry
08-28-2013, 04:54 PM
I thought about it. I am using the .501 because the .500 I could basically push it in lightly with my finger and it would drop by itself. The .501 I am using were not bad starting out with the first one and showed rifling marks on the side. The .500 showed no sings of rifling.

In my experience the sample pack was pretty useless. If you've only tried the sample pack bullet and not the a actual bullets they sell you might be surprised to find the smaller one fits tight enough???

jarheadhunter
08-28-2013, 05:14 PM
In my experience the sample pack was pretty useless. If you've only tried the sample pack bullet and not the a actual bullets they sell you might be surprised to find the smaller one fits tight enough???

Yeah only problem with that is then I would have to dump another $85 for more ML bullets. I don't know why they would give you a sample pack and have them be different sizes? Not saying that your wrong just doesn't make sense to me.

CoHiCntry
08-28-2013, 05:51 PM
Yeah only problem with that is then I would have to dump another $85 for more ML bullets. I don't know why they would give you a sample pack and have them be different sizes? Not saying that your wrong just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not sure either? Maybe it was a fluke thing for me and doesn't happen to others? Another option, and one I'm considering if I can't get it figured out is to use the Thor as your first shot bullet then have some powerbelts in your speed loaders that will load easy with the fouled barrel for a follow up shot if needed. Of course the powerbelt would have to have a similar poi. Hopefully one shot will do...

Old Hunter
08-28-2013, 08:00 PM
Sadly, the Thors don't always run true to size. Terry is very aware of this, and is trying to get tighter tolerances when he sizes them. If you buy some, and they don't fit. He'll exchange them for another size.

Here's another problem. Muzzleloaders don't have straight barrels. Out of the 7 CVA inlines I owned in the past, only one of them had a perfectly straight bore. I could start a Thor easily by hand at the muzzle, and it pushed down with perfect even pressure all the way down to the powder. Surprisingly it was the cheaper Wolf that had the good barrel. Three Accuras, two Optimas, and one other Wolf all had a loose spot as the bullet approached the powder. I also had a Knight that had a straight bore. I never had a TC that was straight. Even the sidelocks, but those got a PRB, so it didn't matter.

Guys aren't aware of this, because they use bullets like Powerbelts and sabots they take up the changing dimensions of the bore. When you use a bullet like the Thor that's copper and doesn't give much like lead does. You need a perfect fit with a perfect bore. Not easy to get.

It's a pet peeve on mine. When I push a bullet down the bore. I want to feel the same pressure all the way down. If I don't. At some point the gun will be sold.

I'm just into traditional sidelocks now shooting a PRB, so the problem has disappeared for me. The patch will take up any slack, but I still prefer to feel a steady pressure loading. Yes, i'm picky.

CoHiCntry
09-01-2013, 06:20 PM
UPDATE... I finally had a chance to try out the smaller .501 Thor bullets today. I also bought some T7 primers to see if they would help with the crud ring. All I can say is WOW! These are the most accurate bullets I've ever shot out of a muzzleloader! I shot 4 times at 50 yds, then 3 times at 75 yds. Made an adjustment and shot twice more at 75. All but one of my 50 yd shots were touching and all three of my first 75 yd shots were touching. In fact they looked like one big hole! With open sites, I've never had a group this good.

The new T7 primers did seem to leave less of a crud ring than my other primers but didn't eliminate it completely. The good thing is I was able to shoot, then re-load with a fouled barrel and shoot again. I was able to do this with all my shots, one on a clean barrel, then one with a fouled barrel. They weren't the easiest to load but I feel confident that I could re-load in the field okay.

I'd still like to do some more testing and use some BH209 but with hunting season only a couple weeks away I'm pretty confident with the load I have worked up with 90 grains of 777. I'm planning to pitch the T/C after this season anyway and get a new Knight, so I'll be back to starting all over anyway.

Old Hunter
09-01-2013, 08:02 PM
Sounds like you got a handle on it.

tdub24
09-02-2013, 08:36 AM
I'm planning to pitch the T/C after this season anyway and get a new Knight, so I'll be back to starting all over anyway.

Why would you pitch the TC since your shooting such tight groups? Sounds to me you have a found the load your muzzy likes the best.

Old Hunter
09-02-2013, 09:30 AM
What TC do you have? I'm looking to buy an inline for next years hunt. I'll be hunting a new area that's going to require longer shots than I can make with a sidelock and iron sights.

I'm going to have to use one of those blasted scope thingys.

CoHiCntry
09-02-2013, 10:01 AM
What TC do you have? I'm looking to buy an inline for next years hunt. I'll be hunting a new area that's going to require longer shots than I can make with a sidelock and iron sights.

I'm going to have to use one of those blasted scope thingys.

It's a T/C .50 cal Omega, all camo. I'm only about an hour from BV if we struck a deal!

CoHiCntry
09-02-2013, 10:04 AM
Why would you pitch the TC since your shooting such tight groups? Sounds to me you have a found the load your muzzy likes the best.

I was thinking the same thing after I posted that comment! I've been eyeing one of the new Knight ultra lights and the mountaineer. I'd also like to get a new sidelock.

Old Hunter
09-02-2013, 10:33 AM
It's a T/C .50 cal Omega, all camo. I'm only about an hour from BV if we struck a deal!

Any idea what you want for it, and when you'd be selling it? I like Omega's. I had one a couple of years ago, and it was a good shooter.

You can PM if you'd like.

Orion/CO
09-02-2013, 11:08 PM
Just to add my input, I shot the No Excuses 460 Gr 50 cal bullets in my T/C Hawken last year for both my CO bull moose and cow elk (90 gr 777 for both). The first shot at my bull moose was at 120 yards and I hit it high but it hit a rib and was enough to paralyze it and drop it in it's tracks (but still alive and trying to get up, so I did a follow up shot as I got close). The second shot was at 20 yards right through the chest. I recovered both slugs (even the 20 yard shot was not a complete pass through). Two days later I shot a cow elk at 75 yards, and although I did not recover the slug, it was not a complete pass through (no exit hole). However, the cow also dropped in it's tracks and did not require a follow up shot (the first shot was a perfect behind the shoulder shot). So, the good news is that both animals dropped immediately and the bullets mushroomed nicely, but I overall I was disappointed in the failure of the No Excuses bullets to make a complete pass through, even at relatively short distances, as I would have preferred a pass through shot with that heavy of a slug/load.

Old Hunter
09-03-2013, 03:12 PM
It's a T/C .50 cal Omega, all camo. I'm only about an hour from BV if we struck a deal!

I just bought a Triumph from a friend. So, don't sell it. It's sounds like it's working good for you.