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Whitehawk
10-07-2013, 05:23 PM
Whats this going to do to our BLM lands in across the west???
Ive had it with these JOKERS! Run-em all off and start over..

Sawfish
10-08-2013, 02:00 PM
Forest Rangers serving eviction notices and threatening forest users with fines and incarceration in California.

mattdeere
10-08-2013, 02:14 PM
Sawfish where has that happened? I haven't heard of anything.

Sawfish
10-08-2013, 02:36 PM
Matt, See the post by tonytrim in the thread on Government Shutdown in the California section. According to the post, this happened in Zone D-19, which is San Bernardino National Forest.

Plainsman
10-08-2013, 08:36 PM
Hey guys, this all is a bunch of garbage I know. I work for GFP here in SD and can tell you that even though fed lands are supposed to be closed due to the shut down, state agents are not enforcing the closure. Not sure how this applies across the board throughout other states, but I would assume all federal law enforcement are included in those who are furlowed and you should be fine within state regs. Hope this helps, but the quick answer would be to give a quick call to your respective state agency for a full rundown.

wolftalonID
10-08-2013, 10:40 PM
The whole shut down is a joke. If everyone furloughed gets back pay when they are done fighting....then its a joke.

Old Hunter
10-09-2013, 07:44 AM
The whole shut down is a joke. If everyone furloughed gets back pay when they are done fighting....then its a joke.

The joke is the people who are uninformed.

The shutdown is costing the economy 300 million a day. I won't even get into the health issues from the shutdown.

hardstalk
10-09-2013, 08:47 AM
The whole shut down is a joke. If everyone furloughed gets back pay when they are done fighting....then its a joke.

They will for sure. Or the lawsuits will cost alot more. Im sure no gov. Employees are concerned.

dallen0427
10-09-2013, 09:29 AM
They will for sure. Or the lawsuits will cost alot more. Im sure no gov. Employees are concerned.

Purely a dumba$$ comment made in complete ignorance. No paycheck is no paycheck. "Essential" employees are compelled to go to work, but will not recieve pay until Fed appropriations are passed. Do you work for free? Yes, Fed employees will probably recieve back pay for all of this, but do you know how many people that this will hurt finacially? I'm sure many employees out there dont have the savings to fall back to, in order to make payments on mortages, utility bills, food etc. I bet there are a whole lot of people worried about not recieving their paycheck. Your a dumba$$.

hardstalk
10-09-2013, 09:37 AM
Purely a dumba$$ comment made in complete ignorance. No paycheck is no paycheck. "Essential" employees are compelled to go to work, but will not recieve pay until Fed appropriations are passed. Do you work for free? Yes, Fed employees will probably recieve back pay for all of this, but do you know how many people that this will hurt finacially? I'm sure many employees out there dont have the savings to fall back to, in order to make payments on mortages, utility bills, food etc. I bet there are a whole lot of people worried about not recieving their paycheck. Your a dumba$$.

Easy brother! Leave the name calling for grade school girls. do I feel its creating current hardships? Absolutely, do I feel they will receive backpay after all is resolved yes. Does that help their current situation? No. As far as my comment on them being concerned at the moment it was referring to receiving their appropriate money in due time. Not about not being concerned right now. Im sure their is alot of family's wondering and hoping everything will be resolved asap so they may continue on with daily lives. And my condolences exist for those that are left hanging wondering when things will be back to normal.

jarheadhunter
10-09-2013, 11:54 AM
As a Federal Gov worker it really pisses me off when people have to bash on me. Why do you hate me because I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps fighting for your freedoms? That's the only reason I have this job. I got it on A Veterans Recruitment Appointment. Now I ship ammo to all military around the world that are still fighting for you. I can assure you I am not overpaid not even close and I do work a full 40 Hrs a week just as hard or harder then most of you.

Luckily my work is funded by different funds then what is affecting everyone else right now and I am still working. I did however get furloughed not even a month ago and guess what I didn't get back pay for it.

It's a shame that there is actually people out there that say we should be furloughed because were over payed and don't work. I guess I am glad to say that I have never or will ever wish that upon anyone. I hope that karma doesn't get you.

hardstalk
10-09-2013, 12:14 PM
As a Federal Gov worker it really pisses me off when people have to bash on me. Why do you hate me because I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps fighting for your freedoms? That's the only reason I have this job. I got it on A Veterans Recruitment Appointment. Now I ship ammo to all military around the world that are still fighting for you. I can assure you I am not overpaid not even close and I do work a full 40 Hrs a week just as hard or harder then most of you.

Luckily my work is funded by different funds then what is affecting everyone else right now and I am still working. I did however get furloughed not even a month ago and guess what I didn't get back pay for it.

It's a shame that there is actually people out there that say we should be furloughed because were over payed and don't work. I guess I am glad to say that I have never or will ever wish that upon anyone. I hope that karma doesn't get you.

I don't think there is a man or woman on this forum who disregards the work ethic of any vet and or current serviceman. I believe each and every one of us appreciate any blood sweat or tears given for this country. Private or public funds aside sacrifice is sacrifice and always thanked before serving dinner at my house.

Jhh I hope none of this thread insinuates what you feel.

This thread has been insanely steered off course and I apologize for having a hand in it. And an apology is needed for the o.p as well.

wolftalonID
10-09-2013, 12:21 PM
I dont have issues with those that actually work for a living. I have issues with politicians. They are not being affected by their own choices. POTUS and Co going to a sandwich shop because the chef was gone is not being affected.

Politicians get paid to make decisions. We voted them in to do that. So they do. They voted in the pay cuts, the budget cuts, the IDEA that we should do something about spending money we dont have. They set the date, set the limits, decided how much was too much, and gave themselves a little more time to eat the cake they baked.

Then the cake ran out, the whiskey dried up, the band went home......just like it was voted on to do.....and the fat slobs are crying over the lack of a party while the rest of us are looking at them like idiots. For when we throw a party and its out of food, we go without......GoD forbid our politicians dont get their oxfords shined because the servants are furloughed.

Our country is flat busted broke. We have no money, only debt. A hole does not fill in if your in it with a bigger shovel.
If you know that shooting your buddy in the right shoulder will harm him, then do you instead shoot him in the left one and claim how much good you did for him with the change in plans?

This is precisely what the politicians are doing with our healthcare reform, and our budget cuts. Yes healthcare needs reform. Doing something in a rush that is not well formed is not helping....even though they stand on a box and say.." Look! See! We have fixed it as the left shoulder bleeds out.
Cutting spending on federal parks while paying to blockade them....left shoulder again....
cutting spending on military while paying to research useless crap....left shoulder and maybe a nut too.

We ran out boys....time to put on the shit kickers and shovel our own. But....hey they are poloticians.....somebody please find the shoe polish....they stepped in some poo!


Like i stated above. A joke.

jarheadhunter
10-09-2013, 12:49 PM
I agree with you that this country has a problem. I worry for my Federal Gov job everyday because of it. Hardstalk you seem like a good guy and that wasn't really directed towards you just anyone that fits the bill. I am a little on the defensive because I have had people tell me to my face that they were happy I was furloughed because I don't work and am over paid. WolftalonID I agree with you completely.

dallen0427
10-09-2013, 02:53 PM
I agree with you that this country has a problem. I worry for my Federal Gov job everyday because of it. Hardstalk you seem like a good guy and that wasn't really directed towards you just anyone that fits the bill. I am a little on the defensive because I have had people tell me to my face that they were happy I was furloughed because I don't work and am over paid. WolftalonID I agree with you completely.

Same experience. Most of the guys in the office here are vets, I think thats pretty much across the board.

We are at work today, but wont be paid until the bozo's work it out.

I've had several contractors, who have performed work for the Govt, and gave a good job for fair price, asking when we could close out and get things going to acct for payment. Explained to them that we cant pay until we recieve funds from Congress. One contractor says he's got a large amount of money tied up in the job, and needs payment to make payments back out and pay his guys. Govt employees aren't the only one affected by this, it spreads out in a lot of directions. And none of it impacts the boneheads playing their games. I'd like to see a new law, that bars members of congress, the executive branch, from being paid until they fullfill their constitutional duties. And make it retroactive. That would mean all of them would owe US....what 6 years of backpay. I bet things would change.

lp2506
10-09-2013, 02:57 PM
Is this the Mule Deer Forum?

wolftalonID
10-09-2013, 03:11 PM
No....mule deer are banned until the shutdown allows them! Lol sorry.

dallen0427
10-09-2013, 03:15 PM
No....mule deer are banned until the shutdown allows them! Lol sorry.

Mulies are all dead beats anyways. I'm glad they are banned!

lp2506
10-10-2013, 06:45 AM
LoL!!!!!!!

mcseal2
10-10-2013, 09:34 PM
I like what I read here, sounds like a lot of us thing alike.

I do have sympathy for those the government shutdown is affecting and agree that it is an unnecessary hardship on those who are doing an honest days work for an honest days pay. Also for any vet or other person who was working hard until circumstances made them unable to do so. I have absolutely NO problem with helping to support anyone unable to support themselves, that has made an effort and had the desire to do so in the past. At the same time I don't believe in a lot of government programs that use our dollars to support those who make no effort to support themselves without them having to serve the country in some fashion.

The battle being fought with the shut-down and debt limit is definitely being made more painful than necessary by members on both sides of the aisle. Fact is that the battle should have been fought long ago before we got to this level of debt and the condition the country is in now. That would have required it be fought by leaders not those just wanting to kick the can further down the road and get re-elected. While I'm on my soapbox I will throw two ideas out before stepping off that I think are vital to the future of the country. Both are simple and make sense I think.

Constitutional amendments for:

Term limits. Career politicians are much of the problem. It does not serve their interest to hash out hard issues or make tough decisions, just stay in office and kick the can. Take a lifetime of politics and the backscratching needed to get re-elected off the table and it simplifies the process of making the right decision for the country. Even being on local boards you see people come in with fresh ideas and re-vitalize the board. I saw it myself when a new member came in during the last year of my term and we pulled off an event I'd never of dreamed of. I was burned out and beat down, his fresh perspective improved things. Everyone has a limited amount of fresh ideas to contribute, put them out there and vote then get out of the way of progress. 8yrs is plenty for everyone in office this country was founded on people who had real world experience not lifetime politicians.

Balanced budget. Borrowing more than we take in is stupid and unsustainable in the long run. The first idea I threw out would help take care of this problem I think, less promises of finances or results to get re-elected. Our debt is excessive as it is, and not being able to even balance the budget let alone repay any of it is stupid and the rest of the world sees us acting this way. It helps nobody, we waste plenty of money that could be re-allocated where it is needed.

Heard the guy that had been run off for mowing the grass at memorials without permission on the news tonight. He had an awesome quote that I will screw up here, but the gist of it was that politicians in DC need to have their limos stay home and be picked up on a bunch of short yellow buses. Pretty good idea.

dallen0427
10-13-2013, 08:34 PM
I like what I read here, sounds like a lot of us thing alike.

I do have sympathy for those the government shutdown is affecting and agree that it is an unnecessary hardship on those who are doing an honest days work for an honest days pay. Also for any vet or other person who was working hard until circumstances made them unable to do so. I have absolutely NO problem with helping to support anyone unable to support themselves, that has made an effort and had the desire to do so in the past. At the same time I don't believe in a lot of government programs that use our dollars to support those who make no effort to support themselves without them having to serve the country in some fashion.

The battle being fought with the shut-down and debt limit is definitely being made more painful than necessary by members on both sides of the aisle. Fact is that the battle should have been fought long ago before we got to this level of debt and the condition the country is in now. That would have required it be fought by leaders not those just wanting to kick the can further down the road and get re-elected. While I'm on my soapbox I will throw two ideas out before stepping off that I think are vital to the future of the country. Both are simple and make sense I think.

Constitutional amendments for:

Term limits. Career politicians are much of the problem. It does not serve their interest to hash out hard issues or make tough decisions, just stay in office and kick the can. Take a lifetime of politics and the backscratching needed to get re-elected off the table and it simplifies the process of making the right decision for the country. Even being on local boards you see people come in with fresh ideas and re-vitalize the board. I saw it myself when a new member came in during the last year of my term and we pulled off an event I'd never of dreamed of. I was burned out and beat down, his fresh perspective improved things. Everyone has a limited amount of fresh ideas to contribute, put them out there and vote then get out of the way of progress. 8yrs is plenty for everyone in office this country was founded on people who had real world experience not lifetime politicians.

Balanced budget. Borrowing more than we take in is stupid and unsustainable in the long run. The first idea I threw out would help take care of this problem I think, less promises of finances or results to get re-elected. Our debt is excessive as it is, and not being able to even balance the budget let alone repay any of it is stupid and the rest of the world sees us acting this way. It helps nobody, we waste plenty of money that could be re-allocated where it is needed.

Heard the guy that had been run off for mowing the grass at memorials without permission on the news tonight. He had an awesome quote that I will screw up here, but the gist of it was that politicians in DC need to have their limos stay home and be picked up on a bunch of short yellow buses. Pretty good idea.

Agree completely. I'm a bit pessimistic about the lifetime politician voting for term limits. We need to clean house.

Musket Man
10-14-2013, 01:14 AM
This shut down is all backwards. Should start not paying at the top starting with the president and everyone in DC. The little guy at the bottom needs his pay to live on, the top doesnt and I bet all of them in DC could live just fine if they never got paid again. If they did the job they were elected to do we wouldnt have this problem in the first place. Them borrowing money to pay interest on money they already borrowed as I understand it is the stupidest thing I ever herd of. Its just digging us in deeper. I truly believe some of the leaders in this country are trying to sell is out and trying to end the USA and all the freedoms it has stood for since 1776. Something has got to change soon. As long as we import more then we export we are going to be broke. IDK who you are or how much money you have if you spend more then you make you will eventually go broke and thats exactly whats happened here. All the regulations here have choked businesses out and sent alot of work over seas where they dont have all the regs to deal with. It all got alot worse with Clinton and been down hill ever since IMO. That was when all these 'environmental groups' got way to much power and alot of logging, ranching and farming got shut down and Clinton delcared all the national monuments while he was walking out the back door. If you figured it out I think about 10% of the country is trying to support the other 90%. Ok I think Im done, this subject gets me a little rattled!

Colorado Cowboy
10-14-2013, 03:25 AM
It all started with Clinton

SORRY....I don't think so. Started way before him. I believe it really started back around Ike's time or even earlier. Congress was looking for ways to pay for the new massive interstate highway and other social programs and the Social Security Trust money was just too juicy to be left alone. They started "borrowing" the excess (and there was billions of excess trust fund dollars there back then) and leaving a so called IOU to pay it back. Never happened. Now the entitlement programs are sucking up a majority of the money, leaving very little left for discretionary spending. If that SS Trust money was still there, our gov't would be in fat city!
If you had a savings plan like a 401K or something else and kept spending more than you earned every year, when it came time to tap that fund for your retirement......... Well you get the idea. Not really as simple as this, but you can't spend more than you earn and keep your house in order for very long. THE PIPER HAS TO BE PAID SOME DAY.

Musket Man
10-14-2013, 11:00 AM
Agreed CC. I worded that poorly. I believe it got alot worse in Clintons time in office and I see that time as a major turning point for alot of things. Ike was before my time lol

JMSZ
10-14-2013, 03:29 PM
Agreed CC. I worded that poorly. I believe it got alot worse in Clintons time in office and I see that time as a major turning point for alot of things. Ike was before my time lol

It started when people decided that the answer to all problems was the federal government and the states ceded their sovereignty to the federal government.

The Federal Reserve Act put us over the hill and FDR coming to office was when the train hit full speed with the New Deal and all of the various socialist programs that went with it.

The Federal Reserve Act gave the federal government the ability to manipulate the monetary supply.

Then came FDR and the New Deal and its various flavors of socialist policies and the beginning of new interpretations of the Constitution to expand the powers of the government in order to exercise more control over the economy.

During that same time frame the notion that the federal government should manipulate the economy become popular.

Then Nixon, I believe it was, took the dollar off the gold standard and floated the currency. That effectively gave the Federal Reserve free reign to print as much money as it saw fit, limited only by the debt limits approved by Congress.

Now the self-anointed elites are advocating for the elimination of the debt limit - that would give the Federal Reserve a blank check.

The popular idea among the self-anointed elites is that Keynsian economics are the way to go and that the federal government can and should apply those economic policies on a national scale and (try to) run the economy like a giant company.

A significant part of that is deficit spending, Keynsians don't just believe in deficit spending, they encourage it, you should be spending not only the money you have now, but you should have the money that you will make over the next 10, 15 and 20 years already spent.

According to them, if you're not doing that, then you're not putting your money to its most productive use.

To be fair to Keynes, he understood that there were limits to everything and didn't espouse rampant and out of control borrowing.

But, typical of the self-anointed elites in this country, if a little is good, then a lot is better and even more is great.

The results of that are what we see today: The political and business types in this country see the United States as one big company with the President as the CEO and the citizens of this country as its (captive) investors.

That's why the know-it-alls in Washington and the Ivy League schools won't even think about sending you a check instead of spending it on BS projects.

You will spend the money to pay off debts, they want to see GDP increase and paying off debts doesn't do that, only spending it on new stuff makes GDP go up.

So, they would rather spend a billion dollars to build cold storage facilities for the Eskimos in the Arctic than cut you a check.

Sorry to go on a rant, this stuff just drives me up a wall and the amount BS that comes out of D.C. and the games that those bunch of arrogant idiots and their Ivy League and Wall Street buddies play with peoples lives is just disgusting.

Musket Man
10-14-2013, 05:16 PM
One good thing about this thread is it makes me feel alot younger! lol. I remember Regan being in office but Clinton was the first one that I was really old enough to understand alot of these things. I could be missing something but I cant see how increasing the national debt could be good in any way. Im not against borrowing money but there needs to be a way to pay it back and if you keep borrowing more without paying it back its just getting in deeper and deeper the more you borrow. I dont really understand how this all works but it seems to me the federal government is in way over its head right now and they want to keep digging deeper.

brooks
10-14-2013, 08:16 PM
What ever happened to.....We The People ? We need people in this country with the mind set people had in the 1700 and 1800's !!!They would have burned the White House and the Capital down by now.

Colorado Cowboy
10-14-2013, 08:21 PM
One good thing about this thread is it makes me feel alot younger! lol. I remember Regan being in office but Clinton was the first one that I was really old enough to understand alot of these things.

Hey MM...I'm not that damn old. I'l be 72 at the end of the month and just because I remember Ike and Truman don't make me ancient!!! At least I won't have as long to pay into the national debt as you guys....HA HA!

Come out cowboy shooting sometime and I'll show you how quick an old fart can shoot and move...Yee Haw.

Musket Man
10-14-2013, 08:51 PM
Guess ya got me on that 1 CC;) LOL

JMSZ
10-15-2013, 03:28 PM
One good thing about this thread is it makes me feel alot younger! lol. I remember Regan being in office but Clinton was the first one that I was really old enough to understand alot of these things. I could be missing something but I cant see how increasing the national debt could be good in any way. Im not against borrowing money but there needs to be a way to pay it back and if you keep borrowing more without paying it back its just getting in deeper and deeper the more you borrow. I dont really understand how this all works but it seems to me the federal government is in way over its head right now and they want to keep digging deeper.


Long story short, the key is GDP - Gross Domestic Product. They want GDP to increase, all the time.

If GDP isn't increasing, isn't increasing fast enough or, God forbid, is decreasing, then according to the D.C., Ivy League and Wall Street types, somebody needs to spend more money.

If private investors and businesses can't or won't spend enough money, then they believe that the federal government has an obligation to spend the money and if they have to borrow it, so be it.

The fact that they are creating a huge liability that the citizens of this country are liable for doesn't matter to them.

To them, an increasing GDP is more important than anything else, which is why they are now publicly calling for eliminating the debt ceiling.

I'm in the same boat as you Musket Man, I started to understand things when Clinton was there, but it was during Bush's time that I truly understood how screwed the system really is.

Problem is, somebody like Ron Paul could be elected and inaugurated today and it would do about as much good as changing captains on the Titanic after she hit the iceberg.

Too many people in this country buy into the system as it exists today - the idea of the "two party system", the amount of government involvement in the economy while calling it a "capitalist economy", the complete impotency of the state governments - that no one person or even handful of people will be able to make a change.

The only peaceful way that things will change is if a real third party that has a base in the large number of people who don't affiliate themselves with either party (not the ones who call themselves independent but then vote right in line with republican/democrat party lines on every single issue) coalesces and gets a foothold.

The other option is nothing but bad, but, unfortunately, not unrealistic due to the ignorance and arrogance of people in the federal and state governments.

Eberle
10-15-2013, 03:31 PM
Hey MM...I'm not that damn old. I'l be 72 at the end of the month and just because I remember Ike and Truman don't make me ancient!!! At least I won't have as long to pay into the national debt as you guys....HA HA!

Come out cowboy shooting sometime and I'll show you how quick an old fart can shoot and move...Yee Haw.

You tell him CC! You & Pete (OH) are my mentors on this forum!

Colorado Cowboy
10-15-2013, 04:26 PM
You tell him CC! You & Pete (OH) are my mentors on this forum!

I wrote that with my mouth wide open so I could breath better....had to run across the room to get the phone:p

Musket Man
10-15-2013, 07:50 PM
Seems to me our GDP would be going down steadily as more and more things are made over seas. It would explain why our debt is going up though. This system keeps getting worse the more I know about it. I herd somewhere our national debt used to be mostly in this country so the interest was staying here atleast but now it has shifted to being more in other countries so they are getting the interest and thats really hurting us.

WOW! CC you must have a big house! LOL

wapiti66
10-15-2013, 09:10 PM
Yes...They (politicians) are in a race to see who can make the U.S. be owned by China the fastest. Right now Obama and his gang are proving just how easy they can spend our money while too many in the GOP are trying to coax them into taking baby steps when they need to go "cold turkey" A 3rd party is gaining steam I feel, CLEAN HOUSE.

Musket Man
10-16-2013, 07:55 PM
I think they are selling us out to China too. China gonna have a hell of a fight on its hands when they come try to claim it if they ever think they own this country!

JMSZ
10-17-2013, 07:49 AM
I think they are selling us out to China too. China gonna have a hell of a fight on its hands when they come try to claim it if they ever think they own this country!

The Chinese are smart, they know they don't need to come and claim anything.

All they need to do is establish themselves as the economic top dog of the world. Then they have the collar on us, then all they need to do is choke us for a bit just to get the point across that they can do it and show that they control the leash.

After that, everybody plays by their rules.

Right in line with what Lenin said - "The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them."

The people in this country who put the economy before everything else are playing right into their hands. I don't think they're doing it deliberately, I just think that they're too greedy to see it and too arrogant to believe that it can happen to them.

Colorado Cowboy
10-17-2013, 08:15 AM
The really sad thing is that our country does not have a budget to run the government. Hasn't had one for 5 years. The way they do business is I get what I had last year PLUS a 10% growth factor. Absolute madness!

I was a department head and a Director of 3 departments in my other life. Our annual budget process was what is called a Zero Based Budget or as we called it "bottoms up" budgeting. We started each yearly budget process with zero money and then justified every dollar of annual budget. Every bit of growth from the previous year's budget had to be justified. It started out as a government mandate on budget justification for contractors many years ago.....too bad they don't the same themselves.

Ikeepitcold
10-17-2013, 09:37 AM
They say it's over now. But I dout it did anything but make someone lots of money. I hope they pay the people that where forced to not work or work with out pay it isn't their fault and they should be paid for the time off.

xtreme
10-17-2013, 09:41 AM
I agree CC, about the budget. I don't see China in the same way others do. I tried to have things manufactured in the U.S. to no avail. Even trying to use non union labor was not competitive. I have visited China once for 20 days. I kinda like their way of doing business, they spend about 2 trillion less per year on government regulations than the US. You have much more freedom in China than the US. For example, in China, if you have an auto accident, its your fault. That works for me.
I built my own tire molds and they are still in use, some of my products I built are sold around the world, but not in the US. The US is a hard place to do business. There is still opportunity here in the US.

JMSZ
10-17-2013, 11:45 AM
The really sad thing is that our country does not have a budget to run the government. Hasn't had one for 5 years. The way they do business is I get what I had last year PLUS a 10% growth factor. Absolute madness!

I was a department head and a Director of 3 departments in my other life. Our annual budget process was what is called a Zero Based Budget or as we called it "bottoms up" budgeting. We started each yearly budget process with zero money and then justified every dollar of annual budget. Every bit of growth from the previous year's budget had to be justified. It started out as a government mandate on budget justification for contractors many years ago.....too bad they don't the same themselves.


I don't know if they do the zero-based-budget here - from what I gather from friends who are privy to what goes on at the upper levels is that it's more like throwing a cow into a pack of hyenas, everybody's fighting to get a scrap.

In this case, you need to out-BS the next guy to get your scrap.

The thing that irks me about a lot of this is when I listen to the politicians and talking heads talking about taxes, like people having to justify why the Bush tax cuts shouldn't be allowed to expire, as if it's some gift to us.

It supposed to be the other way around, they should be having to justify each and every bit of extra taxes that they want, every tax should have an expiration date and if they want to keep collecting the tax, they should be the ones having to justify why.

I've watched C-Span and listened to some politician talk about some grand plan of his and how he wants to spend $300,000,000 on it, like he's about to spend $20 at Wal-Mart. No justification of why the taxpayers should be paying for it, no explanation of where the money is going to come from and no explanation of how long the money is going to keep flowing.

Musket Man
10-17-2013, 07:23 PM
I agree CC, about the budget. I don't see China in the same way others do. I tried to have things manufactured in the U.S. to no avail. Even trying to use non union labor was not competitive. I have visited China once for 20 days. I kinda like their way of doing business, they spend about 2 trillion less per year on government regulations than the US. You have much more freedom in China than the US. For example, in China, if you have an auto accident, its your fault. That works for me.
I built my own tire molds and they are still in use, some of my products I built are sold around the world, but not in the US. The US is a hard place to do business. There is still opportunity here in the US.

This is the problem as I see it. This country has done everything it can to practically run businesses out of this country with regulations. I can see having things made in another country from a business standpoint and I dont blame companies for having their products made in other countries at all. But I think now its to the point where its too out of balance and tomany things are made in other countries and its really hurting this country.

mcseal2
10-17-2013, 08:19 PM
I have never been as pessimistic as I am right now about the future of our country. The shut-down/debt ceiling ended with no effect on spending. Obamacare is implemented which is nothing more than another entitlement program for people not supporting themselves, and tax on everyone else. An average 27yr old in my state is expected to have their health care cost rise by 174%. Janet Yellen is the new head of the Fed and is on record saying how the answer to everything is printing more money. Each working American would have to pay $123,000 or something close to that I read to pay our debt now and we will have to raise the debt ceiling again soon. At what point do we miss the last exit to turn the country around, just have to ride the road out until it ends?

Musket Man
10-17-2013, 09:08 PM
Im with you mc. Im not sure we can survive 3 more years of this. I think the last 5 years they have thrown alot of money at alot of things that makes the economy seem better but I worry its a false sense of security and its all going to come crashing down on us. They keep printing and borrowing money but its not worth anything now days. 10 years ago $100 would get you quite a ways, now you can hardly get to town and back on it. From what I have read obamacare is a giant train wreck thats already happening. Im not really effected by it because I have the VA but I have signed every petition I count find against it. In alot of ways I thought the best things have been in recent years was when the economy crashed a few years ago and fuel was around $1.50 a gallon. IMO the fuel prices are the biggest thing thats hurting the economy and driving the price of everything up. If fuel was under $2.00 it would help things more then anything else could.

mcseal2
10-18-2013, 06:27 AM
Ironically working on the ranch my cash income is low enough that I could be subsidized by Obamacare if I chose to and reduce my health care cost. My premiums and coverage wouldn't be as good though. The ranch provides my housing and utilities so my cash income reflects that. I don't feel it would be right for me to make others pay to subsidize me in any case.

Fuel costs definitely affect everything, it all has to be transported to market and petroleum products are used in so many items anymore.

Musket Man
10-18-2013, 07:45 PM
I think health insurance is all messed up now but I dont think obamacare is the answer and think it will make it worse for most. I mean the hospital puts a 25 cent bandage on you, charges the insurance 25 dollars, then insurance instead of being $50 a month is $500 a month. Atleast thats how I see it. Auto insurance too. Why should I have to pay insurance on 2 trucks 1 car and a motorcycle when obviously I can only drive 1 at a time. Here in WA it is basically illegal to have a vehicle thats not insured. I actually had to take the insurance reciepts for parts to insure my 65 Ford since I owned it for 5 months before I got it running and licensed and insured. Once you insure a vehicle you can suspend the insurance for 6 months, then you have to insure it for 1 month and you can suspend it for another 6. And if you take it completely off they say you cant put it back on. What a bunch of bull!
I wouldnt even own a car if fuel were cheaper but with prices the way they are I dont even drive my truck anymore unless I have to haul something or pull a trailer. Im almost scared to start the Peterbilt these days! LOL