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jones422
10-24-2013, 08:53 AM
Just wondering if anybody can give me some information on this area? I moved to riverton 5 years ago and am hunting elk for the first time. I have been hunting the lower part of the unit with no luck at all. thanks for all the help

Colorado Cowboy
10-24-2013, 10:59 AM
I hunted 48 in the past and seems like most of the elk were on private property and tough to get permission.

Topgun 30-06
12-03-2013, 08:23 PM
I hunted 48 in the past and seems like most of the elk were on private property and tough to get permission.

Yep, the Orchard Ranch covers a big part of 48 (100,000 acres) where a lot of the elk stay and it's leased out to SnS Outfitters in Casper. Most of the accessible BLM land on the ranch doesn't hold elk, as they are up in the higher country to the south and southeast part of the ranch where the BLM isn't accessible. The Lewtons own most of the rest of the best elk country in the area to the north of there and you'll pay dearly to get access to any of that property.

shootbrownelk
12-05-2013, 08:54 AM
I quit hunting 48 years ago, after S&S outfitters took over the Orchard Ranch. Used to be that a guy could get permission to hunt from area ranchers, not for a long while now. Last I heard the average trespass fee was around $250.00 for cows, maybe I'm wrong on that though. A trespass fee for bulls is higher...not sure how ranchers/outfitters can get away with charging more for antlers and still call it a trespass fee....but they do it.

Fish
12-05-2013, 09:06 AM
Same thing happened to me in Area 49. The going price was $250 to hunt cows. I did find a few people that let me hunt for free but no elk on their land when I hunted it and the blm land I pounded didn't hold any either. I had hunted that area 4 years before that and a rancher let me on for $150, he originaly wanted $300. I won't hunt there again. I think the Lewton's wanted $500 but that was 5 years ago.

libidilatimmy
12-05-2013, 11:17 AM
I'd try and get a hold of the Game Warden working that area, or stop and talk to them while your up there, if you see them. They usually have the inside info on where the herds are holed up and are willing to share that with you if you ask since they're not all that fond of the private rancher's / outfitters controlling the herds. All of the landowners in that area have become quite greedy of late and are more than willing to charge $300-$500 for trespass fees on antlerless elk, but people must be paying it which I find absurd.

WapitiBob
12-05-2013, 11:41 AM
I have relatives in WY that hunt 48. I gave up on it before the app went in, no place to really hunt.

Topgun 30-06
12-05-2013, 05:37 PM
I'd try and get a hold of the Game Warden working that area, or stop and talk to them while your up there, if you see them. They usually have the inside info on where the herds are holed up and are willing to share that with you if you ask since they're not all that fond of the private rancher's / outfitters controlling the herds. All of the landowners in that area have become quite greedy of late and are more than willing to charge $300-$500 for trespass fees on antlerless elk, but people must be paying it which I find absurd.


***Don't kid yourself on your warden statement. Tom (DeSomber) is a good guy and I talk to him quite often when I'm out there (was there the whole month of October this year), but he's just like the other Wardens and Biologists that have to maintain a good relationship with the ranchers in their area because most of their biologist work is on private lands where the majority of the game lives. Most of the game in that part of the state, like many other areas, is on private land. It's the people that are paying the goofy prices that these ranchers and outfitters are asking that are to blame! If people would realize that and basically boycott those prices they would quickly come down to a reasonable level. To pay over $300 for a cow elk tag that is the going rate right now for a NR and then a lot more than that for a trespass fee that doesn't even assure that you'll see an animal is crazy IMHO! SNS is charging over $6K now for a five day bull elk hunt and we are killing them for just the price of the tag on public land that is legally accessible. SNS doesn't like it, but they can't do a thing about it. One time years ago one of their staff tried to harass us and keep us from hunting and he did the same thing to another group from Wisconsin. I contacted Tom, wrote up a complaint against SNS, and he went and warned Sy at their Trout Creek camp that any other complaints of that nature against the company would lead to possible revocation of their license. I've had no problem with them since then and there are now a lot more people hunting the area after that happened. We go so far back in that the latter hasn't bothered us since most people don't want to go more than a mile, if that, from their vehicle. We don't even start doing any serious hunting until about 2 miles from the nearest road. The problem with hunting 48 or 49 is that you need to have hunted the area a long time to know the game movements and be retired or have a lot of vacation time so you can hunt the whole season when sooner or later you can take an animal if you stay at it. We took a 5x5 and a nontypical 6x7 along with two cows during the two week season down there this year by hunting every day and knowing the area like the back of our hand.

libidilatimmy
12-05-2013, 07:47 PM
Guess I struck a nerve somehow.....I was simply suggesting he stop and talk to one of the state guys for information. The person who asked the original question is new to elk hunting and new to this particular area (which happens to be where I grew up). Just trying to help this individual, not discourage them.

Topgun 30-06
12-05-2013, 08:47 PM
Guess I struck a nerve somehow.....I was simply suggesting he stop and talk to one of the state guys for information. The person who asked the original question is new to elk hunting and new to this particular area (which happens to be where I grew up). Just trying to help this individual, not discourage them.

***Sorry, as that isn't the case at all. I'm just saying that it's doubtful he'll get any useful information from Tom, as I've known him ever since he started working this area and, although he's a nice guy, has never given me any useful information as far as hunting the unit. In one conversation I had with him a couple years ago about some of the stuff we're discussing on this thread he outright told me that he had to get along with all the ranchers because he needs to get on their ranches to do the game biology part of his job, which he spends a lot more time on than he does on the LE part of his job during the year. I'm not trying to discourage the OP and since I know Tom pretty well I don't think what I mentioned was doing that. Send me a PM with your name and I might even know some of your relatives if there are any still in the area, as I've hunted out there most every year since 1994 and know quite a few of the locals.

JEandAsGuide
12-06-2013, 02:20 AM
I ran into Tom while deer hunting this year. I asked him about elk since I had a 49 cow tag. He told me were some usually are if they haven't been pressured too hard. I hiked into that area the next evening and seen about 70. Never got a shot since the first herd was about 150 yds onto private property and I got messed up on the next herd. He still put me on them.

Topgun 30-06
12-06-2013, 06:29 AM
I ran into Tom while deer hunting this year. I asked him about elk since I had a 49 cow tag. He told me were some usually are if they haven't been pressured too hard. I hiked into that area the next evening and seen about 70. Never got a shot since the first herd was about 150 yds onto private property and I got messed up on the next herd. He still put me on them.

***That's great---maybe ole Tom is starting to loosen up a little bit!

Colorado Cowboy
12-06-2013, 07:46 AM
Interesting posts guys. I know the area well as I started hunting there in the the early 80's on Clear Creek Ranch. It was pretty easy to get tags then and the Hendrys didn't charge much for trespass fees.Things really started getting out of hand in the late 90's when Rob & Leslie took over. They leased out hunting to an outfitter for a while and the trespass fees went outa sight. I havn't hunted it for 10 or 12 years.

I used to hunt the northern part of Clear Creek ocassionaly that bordered Orchard. There was a school section that was totally surrounded by the 2 ranches that I hunted. Orchard had it fenced and posted and I used to climb over the fence and hunt it. Had there security guy and outfitter stop me and tell me I was trespassing. They changed their tune when I showed them my tags signed by Hendry.

The last years I hunted there the deer herd had really taken a hit and the numbers were really down. I do keep in touch as a good friend of mine is in charge of security there during the hunting seasons. He keeps telling me I need to come back and hunt. Maybe one day.

shootbrownelk
12-06-2013, 08:35 AM
***Sorry, as that isn't the case at all. I'm just saying that it's doubtful he'll get any useful information from Tom, as I've known him ever since he started working this area and, although he's a nice guy, has never given me any useful information as far as hunting the unit. In one conversation I had with him a couple years ago about some of the stuff we're discussing on this thread he outright told me that he had to get along with all the ranchers because he needs to get on their ranches to do the game biology part of his job, which he spends a lot more time on than he does on the LE part of his job during the year. I'm not trying to discourage the OP and since I know Tom pretty well I don't think what I mentioned was doing that. Send me a PM with your name and I might even know some of your relatives if there are any still in the area, as I've hunted out there most every year since 1994 and know quite a few of the locals.

Topgun, Tom also neglected to tell you that an area rancher flies his aircraft for G&F. And when he radios his outfitter as to where the elk are, they look the other way. To say he has to get along with area ranchers is putting it mildly. The outfitters/ranchers also allow G&F employees to hunt for free. Trying to get information from a G&F warden is like pulling teeth. From what I hear from folks that still hunt there is that you had better have a good GPS and a land status chip. The wardens also patrol for the outfitters, looking for trespassers.

shootbrownelk
12-06-2013, 08:39 AM
Interesting posts guys. I know the area well as I started hunting there in the the early 80's on Clear Creek Ranch. It was pretty easy to get tags then and the Hendrys didn't charge much for trespass fees.Things really started getting out of hand in the late 90's when Rob & Leslie took over. They leased out hunting to an outfitter for a while and the trespass fees went outa sight. I havn't hunted it for 10 or 12 years.

I used to hunt the northern part of Clear Creek ocassionaly that bordered Orchard. There was a school section that was totally surrounded by the 2 ranches that I hunted. Orchard had it fenced and posted and I used to climb over the fence and hunt it. Had there security guy and outfitter stop me and tell me I was trespassing. They changed their tune when I showed them my tags signed by Hendry.

The last years I hunted there the deer herd had really taken a hit and the numbers were really down. I do keep in touch as a good friend of mine is in charge of security there during the hunting seasons. He keeps telling me I need to come back and hunt. Maybe one day.

Cowboy....Rob is the pilot I was talking about.

Colorado Cowboy
12-06-2013, 09:00 AM
I knew he had a plane and flew around a lot during hunting seasons, but so do several other ranches in the area. It's all about the money today! I think Spratt was one of the first to have a plane and do that kind of foolishness.

Topgun 30-06
12-06-2013, 09:27 AM
I've seen Rob up in his plane doing his thing! A couple years ago when I had a buck antelope tag and was up on top in the BLM to the north of the big pond along the main road he flew down at almost ground level and scared every goat in the area that I was watching onto deeded land. That year I was just unhooking my trailer the day before the season opened to camp near the pond on the legal BLM ground near there when an old man (no idea who he was) stopped and asked me what in the He** I thought I was doing. I told him I knew right where I was and was going to shoot a goat on a tag I drew and so were a couple friends that were coming in with me. He started in hollering negatives about NRs and how residents were paying taxes only to be bothered by us NRs and to get out or he'd come down and kick my azz! I just hollered back that I was there for the kicking and he better have good boots, LOL! He took off throwing gravel and I never saw him again. I ended up taking an 80" goat the 4th morning and the other two guys took nice ones the first 3 days. Last year my buddy from Sheridan drew a goat tag and we ended up taking one that may go over 80" after the 60 day drying period and it was right in the small section of State land that touches the road near the north end of the Orchard International Airport (LOL at that one) landing strip below Mahogany Butte. We do have Garmin GPS equipment with a chip and they are the best thing ever to stop arguments when ranchers stop to try and run you off legal public land, which they try to do all the time in some areas. Chuck Lewton was always good at that when he was still living out there full time, but he's now living in Spearfish and we don't see much of his sorry azz any more! His boy Kent and younger boy Lonnie now pretty well do everything out on their properties and are pretty easy to get along with, but to hunt any of their land you pay dearly! I just ran into Lonnie a year ago when I was starting to backpack a mulie out near the end of the October season and he drove his quad over to see who I was and I figured he was going to hassle me and say I was on his property when I was on a piece of legally accessible state land. We had a nice little chat and he actually took me on his quad a good 1 1/2 miles to my truck and saved me that walk with the meat. When I thanked him I made a little comment about his Dad that he could tell wasn't very complimentary and he smiled as he left and said: "We aren't all bad!" I had a good laugh at that as he drove off!

Triple BB
12-06-2013, 06:46 PM
How'd you know it was Rob? Ace has a plane and they share the same hanger and runway. I've flown out there a number of times in my brothers plane just to look for elk. Wonder how many folks thought we were a local rancher...

Topgun 30-06
12-06-2013, 06:55 PM
How'd you know it was Rob? Ace has a plane and they share the same hanger and runway. I've flown out there a number of times in my brothers plane just to look for elk. Wonder how many folks thought we were a local rancher...

***Because he buzzed me so low I thought I was going to have to go prone to keep from getting hit, LOL! I know the color of his plane and I also went by the landing strip and saw his truck parked there after it happened! I'd like to know how you can say he shares that hanger when that one little T-shaped building is designed and only big enough to back one small plane into!!!

shootbrownelk
12-07-2013, 05:30 AM
How'd you know it was Rob? Ace has a plane and they share the same hanger and runway. I've flown out there a number of times in my brothers plane just to look for elk. Wonder how many folks thought we were a local rancher...

By the color. I have good binos...but as low as Rob flies, I really don't need them. You're right TopGun, they spook a lot of game, harassing wildlife perhaps? But don't expect G&F to do anything, Rob is a county commissioner.

Topgun 30-06
12-07-2013, 07:08 AM
By the color. I have good binos...but as low as Rob flies, I really don't need them. You're right TopGun, they spook a lot of game, harassing wildlife perhaps? But don't expect G&F to do anything, Rob is a county commissioner.


I didn't know Rob was a CC now! I went before the Commission at a meeting a number of years ago when a friend from Worland and I were contesting a land swap that Lewton was making with the BLM. The BLM paperwork said the CC was in favor of it and when we went before the Commission about it we found out they didn't even know what was going on and they ended up writing a letter to the BLM telling them to take that statement from the BLM paperwork because it was false. We ended up appealing that swap all the way to Washington, DC and won the case before the Judge it was assigned to. While it was being heard the rotten SOBs down in Cheyenne went ahead and illegally swapped it and we found out that everything had been signed off on the deeds at the Courthouse in Worland. The Judge wrote the BLM head guy in Cheyenne by the name of Bennett a letter really chastizing him for doing that in violation of Federal regulations, but in a letter he wrote to us he apologized for the swap and said he didn't have the authority to reverse what had been done and we'd have to take legal steps through the Federal courts to try and reverse it. There was no way we were going to spend a fortune doing that, so Lewton got more great land over by the French V and gave the public some shit land over by the Powder River campground the BLM maintains on Hazelton Road. That was back when John Dent, who has acerage down by Orchards, was a Commissioner and I found him to be a very nice guy and one of many who didn't care for Chuck Lewton at all. He dropped off the CC some time ago, but was still in very good health for his age when I ran into him out there this season.

AT Hiker
12-14-2013, 10:43 PM
After reading this thread all I can say is WOW!!!!!!! I thought I was loosing my mind from my experiences but now I know Im not the only one.

This past fall I got ran off a piece of state land 2 days prior to season, the local rancher told me I was trespassing. After I explained that those state signs were in fact WY state signs he then proceeded to tell me no hunting allowed, I then reminded him I was not hunting that I was in fact looking at a potential access point. I offered to call the sheriff for him if he felt inclined, but he got mad and stomped off. I never accessed through that section because I was afraid he might vandalize my truck, so in a sense he won. I personally think someone doing that should face hunter harrasment charges or something.

480/277
12-15-2013, 05:47 AM
FUBAR
The kings men you know.......
Do as we say.

Money is the root of all evil and I think the start is to outlaw guided hunts.

humbletaxi
12-15-2013, 09:05 AM
Wow I've been collecting points in Wyoming for antelope and now I'm wondering if I get drawn am I gona wind up in a fist fight over hunting access!

Colorado Cowboy
12-15-2013, 09:28 AM
Wow I've been collecting points in Wyoming for antelope and now I'm wondering if I get drawn am I gona wind up in a fist fight over hunting access!

Guess that depends on where you try to Hunt!!!

Musket Man
12-15-2013, 06:08 PM
Wow I've been collecting points in Wyoming for antelope and now I'm wondering if I get drawn am I gona wind up in a fist fight over hunting access!

Most areas that take points to draw have better access and fewer problems like that. Get a good gps with a huntinggps chip so you know the land ownership and you will be fine. Landowners in areas with poor access to public land have alot of problems with people trespassing so they are kinda touchy about it. There are alot of hunters that dont respect private land like they should and it causes problems for those of us that do.

shootbrownelk
12-16-2013, 09:08 AM
After reading this thread all I can say is WOW!!!!!!! I thought I was loosing my mind from my experiences but now I know Im not the only one.

This past fall I got ran off a piece of state land 2 days prior to season, the local rancher told me I was trespassing. After I explained that those state signs were in fact WY state signs he then proceeded to tell me no hunting allowed, I then reminded him I was not hunting that I was in fact looking at a potential access point. I offered to call the sheriff for him if he felt inclined, but he got mad and stomped off. I never accessed through that section because I was afraid he might vandalize my truck, so in a sense he won. I personally think someone doing that should face hunter harrasment charges or something.

I agree with you AT, but good luck getting a Wy. G&F warden to do anything about it. Did you video or record the confrontation?

AT Hiker
12-16-2013, 09:37 PM
I agree with you AT, but good luck getting a Wy. G&F warden to do anything about it. Did you video or record the confrontation?

No I did not record it, honestly it was the last thing I could ever imagine to happen. I did tell a warden about it, but it was out of his district. He pretty much told me that not a lot he could do except that I was right and the rancher was wrong. Evidently the sheriffs handle the tresspassing issues, but when someone claims state and federal land as their own it is out of everyone's hands.

Im a non-resident hunter to WY, with hopes of moving out there one day, and I can understand the whole migration of out of staters to the beautiful state, but I also understand how important nonresidents (hunters, hikers, vacationers, etc) are to a state like WY. People doing these types of things only make the problem worse, to me not much difference than a tress passer (both are wrong and are cheating, ignorance aside).

Oh well, I will continue to professionally voice my concerns, obey the laws, and spend thousands of $$ every year in WY hunting, hiking, and eating!

Topgun 30-06
12-17-2013, 08:57 AM
No I did not record it, honestly it was the last thing I could ever imagine to happen. I did tell a warden about it, but it was out of his district. He pretty much told me that not a lot he could do except that I was right and the rancher was wrong. Evidently the sheriffs handle the tresspassing issues, but when someone claims state and federal land as their own it is out of everyone's hands.

Im a non-resident hunter to WY, with hopes of moving out there one day, and I can understand the whole migration of out of staters to the beautiful state, but I also understand how important nonresidents (hunters, hikers, vacationers, etc) are to a state like WY. People doing these types of things only make the problem worse, to me not much difference than a tress passer (both are wrong and are cheating, ignorance aside).

Oh well, I will continue to professionally voice my concerns, obey the laws, and spend thousands of $$ every year in WY hunting, hiking, and eating!

***That's not quite accurate, as the G&F staff also write plenty of trespassing tickets and I believe the going rate is at least $200 for a citation. Also, GWs can cite the guy for hunter harrassment if you can document that the guy was hassling you and telling you to stay off legally accessible land. I had a guy that worked for the biggest outfitter in Wyoming try to keep us off BLM land and I found out he also tried to do the same thing with another group from Wisconsin. I contacted the local GW, who I knew quite well, filled out a written complaint, and he went and talked to the head honcho and told them they were risking their outfitters license if he got any more complaints like that. That was a number of years ago and I hunt out there every year and have had no further problems. If you know you're correct and are legal, you need to stand up for your rights or some of those ranchers out there will walk all over you if you don't.

shootbrownelk
12-17-2013, 09:45 AM
***That's not quite accurate, as the G&F staff also write plenty of trespassing tickets and I believe the going rate is at least $200 for a citation. Also, GWs can cite the guy for hunter harrassment if you can document that the guy was hassling you and telling you to stay off legally accessible land. I had a guy that worked for the biggest outfitter in Wyoming try to keep us off BLM land and I found out he also tried to do the same thing with another group from Wisconsin. I contacted the local GW, who I knew quite well, filled out a written complaint, and he went and talked to the head honcho and told them they were risking their outfitters license if he got any more complaints like that. That was a number of years ago and I hunt out there every year and have had no further problems. If you know you're correct and are legal, you need to stand up for your rights or some of those ranchers out there will walk all over you if you don't.

I agree 100%. Don't let ranchers or their hands BS you, if you know exactly where you are. However, I seriously doubt that any rancher/outfitter would ever get a citation for falsely claiming BLM/State land as private. G&F & Ranchers are just too cozy. IMO.

AT Hiker
01-07-2014, 08:32 PM
I agree 100%. Don't let ranchers or their hands BS you, if you know exactly where you are. However, I seriously doubt that any rancher/outfitter would ever get a citation for falsely claiming BLM/State land as private. G&F & Ranchers are just too cozy. IMO.


The G&F guy in my unit told me the sheriff wrote the trespassing tickets and he stayed out of it. Opening weekend I seen the sheriff plenty of times on most of those roads, poor guy was earning his paycheck that weekend! I guess its like the corner crossing issues, some counties its overlooked while others it is taboo.

I should stand up more but I only have a short time to hunt and I really dont want it smothered by dealing with some idiots so I just move on. I do resist some, maybe next time (hopefully there never will be a next time) they will catch me in a odd mood and I will stand up and make it a pain for them.

shootbrownelk
01-08-2014, 07:00 AM
The G&F guy in my unit told me the sheriff wrote the trespassing tickets and he stayed out of it. Opening weekend I seen the sheriff plenty of times on most of those roads, poor guy was earning his paycheck that weekend! I guess its like the corner crossing issues, some counties its overlooked while others it is taboo.

I should stand up more but I only have a short time to hunt and I really dont want it smothered by dealing with some idiots so I just move on. I do resist some, maybe next time (hopefully there never will be a next time) they will catch me in a odd mood and I will stand up and make it a pain for them.

AT, G&F warden says County Sheriff writes tickets...he's NOT involved? Sheriff patrols gravel backroads...Large Landowner is a County Commissioner.....Outfitters/ranchers let G&F employees hunt free.....H-mmmmm All I can say is, glad I don't hunt there anymore.

AT Hiker
01-08-2014, 08:00 AM
AT, G&F warden says County Sheriff writes tickets...he's NOT involved? Sheriff patrols gravel backroads...Large Landowner is a County Commissioner.....Outfitters/ranchers let G&F employees hunt free.....H-mmmmm All I can say is, glad I don't hunt there anymore.


Not sure about the other statements, but the G&F warden did tell me the sheriff took care of the trespass issues (specifically the corner crossing as well as other calls). This is only one warden and I assume there were a couple more that worked this area so maybe they work the trespass issues too?

We need some more Joe Picketts working out there!

Topgun 30-06
01-08-2014, 08:23 AM
Trespassing complaints is most certainly a big part of a Game Wardens job in Wyoming, but they do not issue tickets on corner jumoing complaints. That is left to the individual counties for the Prosecutor and Sheriff to decide how they will handle that issue. GWs are under orders not to get involved in corner jumping allegations after they lost a case in court a few years ago.

kesand72
03-06-2014, 09:21 PM
Trespassing complaints is most certainly a big part of a Game Wardens job in Wyoming, but they do not issue tickets on corner jumoing complaints. That is left to the individual counties for the Prosecutor and Sheriff to decide how they will handle that issue. GWs are under orders not to get involved in corner jumping allegations after they lost a case in court a few years ago.
I still don't understand how tickets can be issued for "corner jumping" if a person never set foot on someone's land.
To me its the same as floating a river or creek, as long as you don't step on the land its not trespassing.