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Buck8541
11-23-2013, 07:03 PM
Some of you may have seen some of my posts and know that I prefer the standard calibers 270, 280, and 30-06. However, I got a really good deal on a S/S Winchester 70 in 300 WSM. The first range sessions for accuracy were pitiful and my reloads were hard to chamber. So against my better judgment I went all in on a custom barrel job (Lilja), and stock (McMillan). The finished rifle has been completely accurized and blueprinted by a very competent gunsmith. However, my hand loads are still hard to close the bolt on. Accuracy is there with 180gr accubonds shooting consistent 1/2" groups at 3075 fps (27" Barrel). I went back to the gunsmith and had him check the chamber, its perfect. I have adjusted my dies, changed dies, adjusted bullet seating depth, and the bolt still closes hard on hand loads only factory loads are fine. I have been reloading for 20+ years and have never had this problem on the 31 different calibers (I counted my dies, that's a whole other thread) I have loaded for. What am I doing wrong? any help would be greatly appreciated. If I can't find a solution this rifle is going to find its way to the used rack at the gun shop.

Kentucky hunter
11-23-2013, 08:31 PM
I have had the same issue with my 300 rum only some of the time I try to make sure I debur the out side of the neck been thinking about getting the neck run out gauge an try that but not all of them do it an some of my 300 wsm do it to not all the time an it is a new gun as well an will chamer factory load fine

Buck8541
11-23-2013, 09:19 PM
Factory loads load fine, they do no shoot as well and they cost three times as much to shoot. This problem is really driving me crazy. I have read online about reloaders shaving a couple of thousandths off of the shell holder or die, but that doesn't seem right to me. If that is the case why would I have the same problem with RCBS, Lyman, and Redding dies and why wouldn't the die companies fix the problem?

Kentucky hunter
11-23-2013, 09:40 PM
It has to be something we re doing nt all my load do it I just bolt them an go on maybe someone on here knows what doing wrong

Buck8541
11-23-2013, 09:44 PM
I just stumbled across a Brian Pierce article about the WSM's. In the article he covers this same problem, I guess it's common. I will try removing a few thousandths from my die and see if the works.

Kentucky hunter
11-23-2013, 09:53 PM
I just stumbled across a Brian Pierce article about the WSM's. In the article he covers this same problem, I guess it's common. I will try removing a few thousandths from my die and see if the works.

Let me know how it goes

Conrad8899
11-24-2013, 07:02 AM
How many times have the brass been shot? Are they just neck sized? Or full length sized? May be U just need to bump the shoulder back. I am just neck sizing my 270 wsm. About the third loading. I have to run them through. A reading body die. To bump my shoulders back... Is it possible the new brass just needs the shoulder bumped back????

Conrad8899
11-24-2013, 07:08 AM
This will be very interesting to see this out come.... Does brand new brass just brass. (Unloaded) Is it hard to chamber????

Colorado Cowboy
11-24-2013, 07:58 AM
I am assuming the brass you are reloading has been shot thru your rifle. It should have been fire formed to your chamber at that point. The first thing I'd do is check the oal case length after it has been fired in YOUR rifle. There are dimensional tolerances on chamber sizing. Factory loaded ammo must fit all chambers in all rifles, regardless of where they fall within the tolerance band and is generally made to fit minimum sized chambers.

Is your sizing die a neck sizer or full length? Once I have fired my brass in the rifle I plan on using it in, I only neck size it from that point on. I never add brass that has not been fired in that particular rifle to it's brass supply w/o full length sizing and fire forming. The only thing I do between reloadings is to tumble/clean the brass, check condition for cracks, etc. and check oal case length with dial calipers. You also might want to dimensionally check a piece of fired brass from your rifle. Look especially at brass thickness at the neck. oal neck diameter and case length. What brand dies are you using?

Are there any bright spots on the fired case that would indicate where the difficulty ie. tightness is occuring?
I sure wouldn't start modifying dies/shell holder until I made sure that the cases you are trying to load have been thru the procedure I've discussed. I've reloaded for over 60 years and have made my own wildcat brass when no factory brass was available. I reload everything I shoot....rifle, pistol & shotgun, except for rim fire.

Buck8541
11-24-2013, 10:16 AM
I have tried Winchester, Federal, and Nosler brass, three different dies manufactures (all full length dies) on two different barrels with same same result. I have also read an article by Barnsness where he encountered the same issue. I will not be able to reload for another week or so but I will keep you updated. Cowboy, to answer your question, no brute spots or signs of defoayion from over pressure., yes these cases have been fire formed in my chamber.if removing a little material from the bottom of the die does not work I will order a neck sizing die. If that doesn't work then to the used rack it goes.

Buck8541
11-24-2013, 01:34 PM
I think I figured it out, it came to me while I was on my morning run. The bullet seating die is too long creating a small gap between the case and the shoulder area of die. When the bullet is seated the pressure form the seating process is bulging the base of the shoulder (see picture). I am going to take .005" off of the bottom of the seating die to see if that reduces the bulge. If it works I will post my findings as I go.
7163

Kentucky hunter
11-24-2013, 03:33 PM
I think I figured it out, it came to me while I was on my morning run. The bullet seating die is too long creating a small gap between the case and the shoulder area of die. When the bullet is seated the pressure form the seating process is bulging the base of the shoulder (see picture). I am going to take .005" off of the bottom of the seating die to see if that reduces the bulge. If it works I will post my findings as I go.
7163

I ve seen that on some of mine to

Colorado Cowboy
11-24-2013, 04:20 PM
If this is the case then you should see some scuffing of the brass there after you have chambered the round and closed the bolt. Have you removed a live round after you have closed the bolt? If not, try one and see if that happens.

Buck8541
11-24-2013, 04:24 PM
Cowboy, I put some Dykem on a loaded round and closed the bolt. The base of the shoulder area was scuffed all the way around the case.

Colorado Cowboy
11-24-2013, 04:44 PM
looks like you have found the problem. Good work Pard.

Conrad8899
11-24-2013, 05:31 PM
That's very interesting. I will keep this in mind. I am new at reloading. So all the info I can get it great.....

bigshot
11-25-2013, 08:17 PM
Hey I'm been busy on hunting trips and just noticed your thread. I had the same problem when I first started reloading 300WSM, it took me a while to figure it out, but what I learned was that when seating the bullet, don't press the cartridge into the die all the way. You need to stop when the handle comes to that first stop (Hard spot). If you do them all that way You'll notice the bullets will be the same length and they will chamber smooth like factory loads. If you push the cartridge all the way down you will feel a crunch in that last bit of push and that's when you'll bulge the shoulder. Try it, that's what fixed my problem anyhow. My 300 win mag is the same way.....dunno if they make them that way or what?

A way to make sure this is happening is to cycle your brass through your rifle once it's been neck sized or full length resized and see if they chamber fine. If they do then the problem is when you are seating the bullets.

Colorado Cowboy
11-26-2013, 06:59 AM
A way to make sure this is happening is to cycle your brass through your rifle once it's been neck sized or full length resized and see if they chamber fine. If they do then the problem is when you are seating the bullets.

I make it a practice to chamber and close the bolt on every round after I reload them. I almost never find any that are a problem, but its just something I've done for 50 years.

Another thing I do is keep a "dummy master" round for EVERY load I shoot in every caliber. It is a deprimed, sized piece of brass with a bullet seated to the depth I use for that particular load & bullet. They are labeled and so I know which bullet/load it simulates. I use it to check/set the seating die before each reloading session. Too many combinations, so this is an easy way to reset a die quickly. In my 25-06 I use 5 or 6 different brand bullets and weights. This system works well for me and i have used it for years.

Conrad8899
11-26-2013, 10:16 AM
Those are sum very good tips. Thanks Colorado Cowboy...

Sawfish
11-26-2013, 01:27 PM
I just stumbled across a Brian Pierce article about the WSM's. In the article he covers this same problem, I guess it's common. I will try removing a few thousandths from my die and see if the works.

Have you tried another sizing die, or a different shellholder? I had this problem with a 7mm Weatherby Mag.. A set of Redding dies fixed the problem.

A different shellholder may also be a solution. Shellholders are very different between brands, and can cause resizing problems. Especially, when you are mixing brands of shellholders and dies. You can also remove metal from the top of the shellholder, but be forewarned that most shellholders are very hard making this a difficult task.

Other options are removing metal from the bottom of the seating die, which you mentioned, or ordering a custom seating die from RCBS or Redding. You might also try chamfering the inside of the case neck with a long taper chamfering tool.

Montana
11-28-2013, 06:58 AM
Had the same problem with my 7wsm and backing it off resolved the issue. Not wanting to change the subject but what bullet are you starting with and why? I just got a 300wsm as a gift and trying to decide if I want it to be a longe range rifle or an elk dumping thunderstick :)
Thanks.

bigshot
12-01-2013, 08:02 PM
I think I figured it out, it came to me while I was on my morning run. The bullet seating die is too long creating a small gap between the case and the shoulder area of die. When the bullet is seated the pressure form the seating process is bulging the base of the shoulder (see picture). I am going to take .005" off of the bottom of the seating die to see if that reduces the bulge. If it works I will post my findings as I go.
7163

I myself would not change the length of the die....good luck

Buck8541
12-02-2013, 07:31 AM
Bigshot, I read of people removing material from the shell holder instead of the die. So I measured all of shell holders, the Lee's were taller than the RCBS, I switched to RCBS and that seems to have solved the problem.

Montana, so far the 180 gr Accubonds, over 70.0 gr H4831, or 65.0 gr IMR 4350 have given me wonderful accuracy and velocity. These loads are at the maximum though and I am working them back down.

Colorado Cowboy
12-02-2013, 08:22 AM
Bigshot, I read of people removing material from the shell holder instead of the die. So I measured all of shell holders, the Lee's were taller than the RCBS, I switched to RCBS and that seems to have solved the problem.

One thing thats been a rule for me is using the same mfgrs components while I load. RCBS dies & shellholder, Hornady dies & shellholder, etc. Each manufacturer engineers their own products to work with each other.....maybe not so when they are mixed with other mfgrs stuff. This is a good practice and Buck9541 is right on. I will not modify any of these components in any way.

tim
12-09-2013, 12:20 PM
I had someone load up some 270 wsm for me. I got the same problem, tough closing of the bolt. It must be common for the wsm.
the brass I had the guy reload was all factory ammo shot once.

Colorado Cowboy
12-09-2013, 12:42 PM
I had someone load up some 270 wsm for me.
the brass I had the guy reload was all factory ammo shot once.
Was it full length sized assuming it wasn't fired in your gun the first time? As I said in an earlier post, not all chambers are exactly the same dimensionally as there are =/- tolerances to the nominal engineering dimension. When you shoot the round in your gun the expended brass is fire formed to your exact chamber dimensions. That is why I only neck size my OWN brass thats been shot in my rifle. There are so many variables involved....all rifles chambered for that round are not the same, there are differences in reloading dies and how they are adjusted, There are dimensional differences in the brass we buy and use, etc, etc.

tim
12-10-2013, 01:14 PM
all the brass came from me and was once fired factory brass in my rifle.

Colorado Cowboy
12-10-2013, 03:05 PM
Sound like you are doing everything right. I went back and reread all the posts and the only thing I would do is call RCBS and talk to their tech people. They are very helpful and might have some suggestions on die adjustment. If you have any factory loads left you might use one of them as a "master" and reset you sizing die and then see what happens when you load one.

Other than that .....I stumped.

Montana
12-13-2013, 04:44 AM
Montana, so far the 180 gr Accubonds, over 70.0 gr H4831, or 65.0 gr IMR 4350 have given me wonderful accuracy and velocity. These loads are at the maximum though and I am working them back down.

Thanks for the info... any idea how fast they are shooting?

Buck8541
12-13-2013, 11:15 AM
Montana,

Both loads chronograph at 3100 FPS +/- 10 FPS. Keep in mind I have a 27" barrel. As I said earlier I am going to reduce these loads, they are pretty hot.