PDA

View Full Version : Dan The Man



Just DIY
03-08-2014, 11:53 AM
So I thought that it was kind of funny that an employee of EHJ wins the spot and a pair of binos. Not that he doesn't deserve it because that was an awesome hunt and a freakin phenomenal buck, congrats. It really doesn't bother me but when I saw it I just thought to myself, would I allow one of my employees to take that spot? I don't know to be honest. Maybe he wasn't an employee at the time of the hunt, I don't know, does it make a difference? I'm sure I just brought up a touchy point but I was just curious what your thoughts were? Go ahead y'all yell at me and beat me up now, lol.

Ikeepitcold
03-08-2014, 12:03 PM
Honestly I don't think it matters IMO. It's about the story and photos. If that's was the best that was submitted the it deserves to be in the magazine. I am just like anyone else too. I have to submit my story and photos in hopes I've done a good enough job to get in just like everyone else does.

Never in Doubt
03-08-2014, 12:06 PM
I know where I work the employees are not allowed to enter drawings and giveaways. Those are specifically for customers and potential customers. It is a pretty standard practice among businesses.

Just DIY
03-08-2014, 12:09 PM
IKC, cool. I know things are easily taken out of context through non face to face communication and I do not want this post to be mistaken. Like I said, Dan is a heck of a nice guy and great hunter from the little I know and that question was not to take away from his accomplishment but more for myself and understanding what the general consensus was from subscribers and how they view it. I could run into that scenario for myself and like I said your/everyone's view is all I was looking for. Thanks.

Just DIY
03-08-2014, 12:11 PM
I know where I work the employees are not allowed to enter drawings and giveaways. Those are specifically for customers and potential customers. It is a pretty standard practice among businesses.

That was my general understanding. I am curious to see what the majority think.

NVBird'n'Big
03-08-2014, 01:59 PM
I do understand that he seems like a great guy, he had a great story and pics. But, it doesn't really sit right with me, nothing against him at all but I believe how Never in Doubt's company handles it is the best way to deal with these types of situations.

ScottR
03-08-2014, 02:11 PM
Dan wont be on full time staff until this summer if i have all of my facts straight.

We are working on a blog and article series on how to get published. This is honestly a more relevant conversation. You wouldn't believe how many good stories we can't use because of bad pictures from cell phones.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

NE69
03-08-2014, 04:10 PM
I can see both sides of this. I wasn't bothered by it simply because it was a heck of a DIY solo hunt, great write up and awesome pictures. I would have had a hard time not selecting his story for the cover and it would have been a shame to keep him off it because of the connection to Eastmans. If the selection was solely based on submitted story and pics then good job. Just my opinion which doesn't really count for much.

packmule
03-08-2014, 04:36 PM
I know where I work the employees are not allowed to enter drawings and giveaways. Those are specifically for customers and potential customers. It is a pretty standard practice among businesses.

That's usually the safest way to go about things.

kesand72
03-08-2014, 06:09 PM
I'm kinda split on this issue.
If he wasn't a full staff member at the time of submission, there isn't much difference between him and a lot of the people submitting who just happen to be professional guides, writers, or photographers.
At the same time, I really thought that this was a chance for the blue collar, hard-core diy guy to get his hunting story out!
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the high quality writing and pics in the stories!
I guess when its all said and done, I can see how it might not look right to some, but I don't have a problem with it.

d.kerri
03-08-2014, 06:21 PM
I resonate a little with IKIC. As far as the product [story and photos] go, it's unquestionably worthy. Does giving the spot to someone affiliated with EHJ [in any way- part time, full time, whatever] discourage others from submitting stories? That's what Eastmans will have to weight. I doubt it discourages anyone.

A side note- the photo of Dan looking perpendicular to the camera with his hand on his forehead might be the best trophy photo I've ever seen. It captures his emotions in a way i have never seen captured before. What a fantastic deer.

Musket Man
03-08-2014, 06:48 PM
My first reaction was kinda mixed feelings but after kicking it around a while I kinda changed my mind. Its a great story with great pics and he got it done DIY on public land in an area he hadnt hunted before and I think it is very deserving of the cover!

HeartElk1
03-08-2014, 07:26 PM
My nod goes to Dan as well for a great trophy well-earned. He sounds like a good Montana guy who'll make a good fit with Eastmans. Also, I'm sure he's a person who will put those binos to use. Great job, Dan!

marcusvdk
03-08-2014, 08:51 PM
My first reaction was kinda mixed feelings but after kicking it around a while I kinda changed my mind. Its a great story with great pics and he got it done DIY on public land in an area he hadnt hunted before and I think it is very deserving of the cover!

I second this. It was mixed feelings at first but it was a heck of a story and it was well deserving of the cover.

Just DIY
03-08-2014, 09:45 PM
Thanks guys. I just wanted to get a consensus on peoples initial feelings. I concur with everyone on the fact that the hunt, photos, and every part about it was just a job well done by Dan. There is nothing easy about taking any animal DIY with a bow let alone a smart toad like that.

wolftalonID
03-09-2014, 09:39 AM
No matter what the reason was, I am sure it was a tough call in the office....or maybe it wasnt. Some companies really hold themselves at arms length to protect their advertisers, Eastmans doesnt make any sense on their stace. The story was nice, photos clear. Gear giveaway from a sponsor to staff??? Call it like you may Scott.....but its in ink right there in the story as saying he is...so readers cant really differinciate that very well.

Well, it makes as much sence as page 66 of my newest EBJ 82....and that rule about us haveing a link to our own blog that may have adds from their sponsors competitors products.

I honestly would have thought staff could write, have a story, section, column, what ever, but to also be in the running for gear? Then the real question isnt are they allowed, but, who chooses the story??

Would be ok if the company providing the item selected the winner every publication.....but thats probably not the case.

I think guys here are being polite.... But the real oppinion comes out being the question was even addressed in the first place.

ivorytip
03-09-2014, 10:17 AM
i like turtles

BKC
03-09-2014, 10:23 AM
No matter what the reason was, I am sure it was a tough call in the office....or maybe it wasnt. Some companies really hold themselves at arms length to protect their advertisers, Eastmans doesnt make any sense on their stace. The story was nice, photos clear. Gear giveaway from a sponsor to staff??? Call it like you may Scott.....but its in ink right there in the story as saying he is...so readers cant really differinciate that very well.

Well, it makes as much sence as page 66 of my newest EBJ 82....and that rule about us haveing a link to our own blog that may have adds from their sponsors competitors products.

I honestly would have thought staff could write, have a story, section, column, what ever, but to also be in the running for gear? Then the real question isnt are they allowed, but, who chooses the story??

Would be ok if the company providing the item selected the winner every publication.....but thats probably not the case.

I think guys here are being polite.... But the real oppinion comes out being the question was even addressed in the first place. I agree 100% Any contest that is run on the radio excludes employees, family of employees, sponsors,etc. I think that is pretty much common practice.

shootbrownelk
03-09-2014, 11:12 AM
I know where I work the employees are not allowed to enter drawings and giveaways. Those are specifically for customers and potential customers. It is a pretty standard practice among businesses.

Well, if it's just about the stories & pictures...I wonder what Mike & Guy will win?

OregonJim
03-09-2014, 11:32 AM
I'm the same way (torn that is)and I have really been thinking about this.
I can certainly see where some folks might question it.

Then I went back and read the article.
It would have been a shame if that article had not been published because he was a part time employee.
If this were a game of chance, a raffle or something else where there was not competition, and editorial review, then I would say a part time employee should be taken out of the mix.
In this case a really great article and pics were published and the magazine was better for it.

I just don't see it as a problem.
Now thats just me; for those who do, I certainly respect that as well.

Timberstalker
03-09-2014, 12:04 PM
Articles and pics like Dan's are exactly why I subscribe to both magazines. The fact that he is a staff member, as printed in the article, does bother me a little. I won't loosing any sleep over it though.

I recall seeing David Long on the cover in the past, so I don't think this is anything new at Eastman's. It's their magazine, they can do what they want.

Umpqua Hunter
03-09-2014, 01:28 PM
Dan wont be on full time staff until this summer if i have all of my facts straight.

We are working on a blog and article series on how to get published. This is honestly a more relevant conversation. You wouldn't believe how many good stories we can't use because of bad pictures from cell phones.

I completely agree the magazine belongs to Eastman’s and can they print the stories they so choose. Dan shot a great buck and it is certainly a cover worthy buck. Dan is certainly not the one at issue here, nor should this discussion detract in any way from Dan’s accomplishment.

The issue seems to really center around the prize, the Zeiss binoculars.

In virtually every contest I have read the fine print on, employees and even family members of employees are not eligible for contest prizes. Prizes are given by companies to encourage their customers to invest in their company. In this case, the prize encourages members to invest their time to write about, photograph and submit their stories, which profits the magazine.

A few relevant issues:

1) Writers contribute stories to the magazine, at minimal compensation, largely in hopes of having a story printed, but also in hopes of having the cover article and winning that prize. All writers should have equal opportunity to win the prize.

2) Who pays for the prize? Does Eastman’s purchase the binoculars, then give them as a prize? Does Zeiss provide the binoculars free of charge as part of their advertising? If Zeiss provides the binoculars, do they have conditions on if staff members are eligible for the prize?

3) Who choses the winner of the prize? If Eastman’s selects the winner, and the winner is on their staff (part time or full time or in negotiations to be a staff member) you can see where there is a clear conflict of interest. Other members who submitted articles, which profit the magazine, should be fully eligible and have equal opportunity to win the prize.

As a suggestion, if Dan was in fact a staff member (full time, part time or in negotiations), would be to award the “second place” article a pair of Zeiss binoculars as well. As a suggestion in the future if the cover article is of a staff member, the "second place" article would receive the prize.

*****

Scott replied in post #7:

1) “Dan won’t be on full time staff until this summer if i have all of my facts straight.” Scott could you clear up if Dan was part time staff or in negotiations to be on full or part time staff?

2) “We are working on a blog and article series on how to get published. This is honestly a more relevant conversation.” In all due respect, to say that is a “more relevant conversation” dismisses the valid concerns which were very carefully expressed by the OP, and the topic of this thread.

NVBird'n'Big
03-09-2014, 01:55 PM
UH hit it right on the head.

packmule
03-09-2014, 05:07 PM
There's already been a blog on it with grading criteria.

http://blog.eastmans.com/how-to-get-your-story-published/

Musket Man
03-09-2014, 08:18 PM
I have never thought of getting in the magazines in any way or on the cover as a contest. When we all voted for the forum members stories in here to me that was a contest. Its the Eastmans magazine and what and who they decide to publish or put where in their magazines is up to them. Does anyone honestly believe Eastmans put his story on the cover just so he could get I pair of binos out of it? I certainly dont!

extreme minnesotan
03-10-2014, 03:57 AM
I agree with UH that there is more than one issue at hand. I also agree with a lot of you that most contest exclude employees and even family members of employees. Whether or not Eastman's did anything wrong, this post will be beneficial for them in the future as it is making evident on how the readers and customers felt about this. They will hopefully clear up these issues and move on from here.

I have not submitted a story ever, but in all honesty if I had this would probably affect me more because of the work that would have been put into the story. I would also have mixed feelings on why my story may not have been "good enough" that they chose an employee.

Out of curiosity, are there any rules for submitting stories that Eastman's have that would make this a non-issue? I mean if they have rules wrote and it doesn't exclude anyone, is there really any complaint to be had?

NDHunter
03-10-2014, 08:04 AM
If it were me, I wouldn't have allowed that story to be on the front cover. No doubt it was a fantastic story with great pictures but when employees start winning prizes, it makes me, the subscriber, second guess whether it is worth it for me to send in a story.

Timberstalker
03-10-2014, 08:07 AM
If it were me, I wouldn't have allowed that story to be on the front cover. No doubt it was a fantastic story with great pictures but when employees start winning prizes, it makes me, the subscriber, second guess whether it is worth it for me to send in a story.

Another way to look at it is, if you want to be on the cover, that's how you do it!:)

BOHNTR
03-10-2014, 08:18 AM
When you vary from the prescribed mechanism, you invite scrutiny!

Musket Man
03-10-2014, 10:21 AM
I have not submitted a story ever, but in all honesty if I had this would probably affect me more because of the work that would have been put into the story. I would also have mixed feelings on why my story may not have been "good enough" that they chose an employee.

I look at this differently. I would be thrilled if I ever got a story published! The last thing on my mind or reason for submitting my story wound be what I would win for it or if I would be on the cover. I have considered submitting a couple but I dont think I have the pics so I will make some improvements next time!

The only cover that has ever really bothered me was the last EHJ #141.

Guy
03-10-2014, 10:31 AM
We held Dan's Zeiss binoculars back to give away at a later date, maybe for a forum or Facebook giveaway just like we normally do for Eastmans' Affiliated feature stories and covers. Hopefully the binos can be put to good use by someone who needs them. Due to contracted promotional considerations we still print the Gear-Give-Away just like normal. Thank you for the concern. -G

wolftalonID
03-10-2014, 03:17 PM
I dont know about the rest of ya... But now I just feel silly.

I am glad to hear a very simple answer to such a tirade of possible concerns.

Thanks Guy for clarifying.