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Adam
02-23-2011, 09:09 AM
Rumor has it that the final New Mexico bill on the new percentages (Resident, Nonresident Guided, Nonresident DIY) has changed to 84%/10%/6%. That would be 16% of the tags to nonresidents - down from the current 22%, but up from the proposed 10% total. So for you DIY guys, you might end up getting 6% rather than the proposed 2%. Thoughts?

Blue Skies Hunting Advent
02-23-2011, 10:33 AM
wow that's the first I heard of this. Well it's better than the original plan.

Doe Nob
02-23-2011, 01:51 PM
I think it sucks but what can you do as a non-resident? The guide lobbies are fighting hard to keep their system in place, the residents want more tags, unguided non-residents don't have a voice, so they are who is going to keep taking the hit. It is still nice to have a state out there that is a straight lotto without preference points, though.

My question is on the timing of all this - I'm assuming its starting for the 2012 draw? Or will it affect the draws this year?

Blue Skies Hunting Advent
02-23-2011, 03:49 PM
This would go into affect for 2012 season, but let's hope it's not a done deal yet.

trophyhill
02-28-2011, 12:52 PM
it's supposed to go to the senate floor today for a vote. if it passes here, then its on to the House. far from over.

huntscout
03-01-2011, 10:09 PM
This will be the year to draw.... It is a shame that they are dedicating more tags to guided hunters than DIY hunters. All non-residents should be in the same pool.... Take what we can get I guess!!!

BigSurArcher
03-03-2011, 06:54 PM
I've sent a number of emails and the reps have seemed willing to listen before they made their votes. Lets hope for the best (unless your a NM resident).

trophyhill
03-04-2011, 08:20 PM
unless you're a resident huh? thanks alot

Zim
03-05-2011, 10:03 AM
I've sent a number of emails and the reps have seemed willing to listen before they made their votes. Lets hope for the best (unless your a NM resident).

There is no "best" alternative, unless the governor removes the outfitter welfare stipulation prior to signing it.

COLOelkman
03-12-2011, 06:50 PM
My understanding is that they will also require a small game lisc. purchase plus app fees and they won't have any points. If this holds, the odds vs the price is not worth it to me. I assume odds might be better as I think many will drop out also. If they had a points system where you'd eventually draw, then it's be more like many other states and I'd go for that but I'd haven't heard that's ever been considered. I'd speculate if that happens, that might also bring more hunters to CO which doesn't exite me either but we'll see how things turn out.

trophyhill
03-16-2011, 09:46 PM
if we had OTC tags in certain units i might be agreeable to a points system but we don't so i'm not

trophyhill
03-18-2011, 06:41 PM
the bill passed the house and senate. now it goes to the Gov for signature.

dead river
03-20-2011, 09:59 AM
That is dissapointing. In trying to force promotion of local economic prospertiy, we continue to pass laws that push us closer and closer to hunting being a sport for the rich and elite. It is unfortunate that much of the federal lands are allowed to be managed with regulations that so heavily favor residency status. However, I fundamentally agree with the lack of preference points. Point creep is legitimate problem. I applaud NM for it remaining a random chance, fair law that does not promote a sense of entitlement because someone has already applied 5 times, or 10 or 3...

Doe Nob
03-21-2011, 08:43 AM
Turn out the lights...the party's over....its seems that all....good things must come to an end....

Odds just got a lot worse. It will be interesting to see what this does for land owner tag inflation. I don't get the all cow tags go to residents thing, I guess NR are only coming to NM for the horns...

c-ne-elk
03-23-2011, 08:35 AM
The thing that amazes me is how most of the residents I have talked to think this is a GREAT thing. Most residents do not realize how few tags they are really getting out of this process compared to the number of resident applicants. Many of the quality units that have a total of say 100 tags may have 1,000 or more resident applicants. So if 10% of the tags went to non-residents without guides (10 tags) under the old system and the new system has 2% or 6% depending how it ends up, there are now about 4 more tags in this unit for the 900 or so residents that did not draw.

Will this make the residents happy? No.

Will reducing the non-resident quota make non-residents happy? Hell no! We have so few tags reducing the number makes it virtually impossible to draw a diy tag.

I constantly hear residents say the non-residents have all the tags, that while hunting all they see are non-resident vehicles. Look at the facts guys, residents have 78% of the tags! THE DIFFERENCE is in the land owner tags. Yes, mainly non-residents purchase them BUT they are not for non-residents only. A resident can buy them too, some residents just choose not to. But I personally know several residents that buy land owner cow tags every year if they do not draw a tag.

As a non-resident that lives 3 miles from the NM state line, I have been unable to draw any type of elk tag in NM for the last 8 years, not even a cow tag. Reducing the number of NR tags will be the last straw as far as I am concerned.

What this is doing is building a stronger wall between the non-resident hunter against the resident hunter in the State of New Mexico which is a bad deal to ever have our ranks divided.

walleyed
03-25-2011, 12:32 PM
I have tried the last 5 years to draw a tag and no luck I think I ve had enough fun and will give it up. You cant even draw an archery tag there any more.

Mrelite
03-26-2011, 02:25 PM
c-ne-elk, Most residents understand the ramifications of this bill and are not as stupid as you have implied.

Reducing the NR quota to 16% is not screwing the NR over, especially compared to other states! the problem is the NR pool is segregated by financial ability. Many NM residents really believe the NR pool should be an equal opportunity draw just as a majority of DIY NR's do.

We have a system that has been broken for years and it will take years to fix it, you have to start somewhere! doing nothing fixes nothing and that pertains to all invested parties!

Would any of you been okay with an 85/15 split, all NR's equal? if the answer is yes then you have work to do!

nebowhunter
03-27-2011, 09:23 AM
I don't blame residents for wanting more tags, I'm sure it is frustrating to residents to not get a tag in their home state. On the flipside most of these states have large tracks of National forest that were set aside for residents of all 50 states, and are funded by all 50 states. Now you are telling me the state decides that I have an even less of a chance at hunting than i did before. Same with Wyoming telling me I cannot hunt a wilderness area without a guide. I can backpack as far as I want into this area and birdwatch but I can't go into this area and hunt. This is a hard one for me to swallow. Fedral land and the outfitter association in that state can keep me from hunting in that area. Something wrong with the whole situation. I have hunted with a guide and Its just not my thing. I would rather do it all on my own and not fill my tag. I will still be more personally satisfied, Its what I enjoy the most personal satifaction with the hunt not the kill.

llp
03-28-2011, 12:07 PM
Mrelite,

I don't believe you have any interest in the 85/15 split. Your group, UBNM, led the charge to get legislation passed, and tried to snooker NR to support UBNM at their own peril. I would applaud a 85/15 split, with all NR in one pool, but I have no faith in you or UBNM leading this effort.

B

Mrelite
03-28-2011, 04:16 PM
llp, You believe what you want, but your facts are not correct.

The UBNM had nothing to do with proposing SB196, once we knew this bill was going to be introduced we actively behind the scenes begin injecting what we thought to be issues with the bill, we did however openly support the bill in it's proposed form which was 90/10 no set aside pool for guided NR's. Behind the scenes everyone knew it was just a starting point in the negotiating process. The UBNM and many other residents were more than happy to end up with an 85/15 split and an all equal NR pool, Senator Munoz did everything he could to make the best out of an unwilling outfitter coalition and a small group of sympathetic but savvy Senators.

You are 100% correct! we pushed for success during the legislation process, would you expect anything less from a bunch of bow hunters? The guy's at the UBNM are mostly DIY common resident bow hunters who would also be DIY NR's in other states, we have strong ties to many DIY NR's and they were always in the conversation at our meetings and our endless e-mail discussions. At this point you may never know the full extent of our support for the DIY NR but that's cool, we did what we could without your support and we are okay with that. I can tell you for sure if the DIY NR would have jumped on board we would have had a different outcome, we needed your help but many of you refused claiming we were out to screw you over. Even though you would not support us we still have intentions of creating an all equal NR pool and yes 85/15 would be great in our opinion, we have 2 years to the next legislation.

llp, I have to ask even though I know the answer, What effort have you done for getting an all equal NR pool? that's what I thought, you have done absolutely nothing to further your cause! The UBNM has put more effort out for DIY NR's then any NR out there! what do we get for it? Nothing! we do it because it is the right thing to do. If you like to hunt NM you should help, if you are still young then that is all the more reason to help and if your are my age then help for the future, whatever you do do something positive.

JP, UBNM Treasurer

Zim
03-29-2011, 08:10 AM
I like everything Mrelite has said about UBNM. I liked enough of what Jesse told me previously to become a member. Nobody else is doing anything in NM. I certainly don't know for a fact considering all I know is what I read from them online, but the organizers certainly seem passionate about bowhunting and concerned enough about NM's broken system to take action. They also have enough concern for NR's to require 2 NR board members. I understand they had to take a position on this latest revised legislation, and were stuck between a rock and a hard place. I am not close enough to the politics to make a judgement on that. The bad thing is the rule changes will likely stand a long time because even if the impact is negative, politicians don't like to admit they were wrong by changing it again.

This is obviously a grass roots organization and it will take time to gain any influence with legislators, but it has to start somewhere. That is why I joined. I hope they grow and keep a least a flicker of a torch burning for real hunting heritage, not money, as the politicians are making it everywhere in every state.

trophyhill
03-29-2011, 08:57 PM
Mrelite,

I don't believe you have any interest in the 85/15 split. Your group, UBNM, led the charge to get legislation passed, and tried to snooker NR to support UBNM at their own peril. I would applaud a 85/15 split, with all NR in one pool, but I have no faith in you or UBNM leading this effort.

B

great to see the UBNM getting some recognition here for such a young organization. even if you do obviously have an ax to grind. lets hear what your real issue is with NM and or the UBNM and maybe we can work the issues out. you seem to be a very bitter person for some reason Bill, but i think we can work thru this.

Doe Nob
04-08-2011, 07:21 AM
Latest rumor is: Gov. Susana Martinez still has not signed Senate Bill 196 and today is the last day or the bill is dead. Fingers crossed!

Blue Skies Hunting Advent
04-08-2011, 12:00 PM
yeah from what I heard she doesn't want to mess with the economy of New Mexico, Wow, A smart and not greedy politician, these could be a first.

Zim
04-08-2011, 12:30 PM
The deadline has passed, noon MST. Nothing is updated on the NM legislature website yet.

Mrelite
04-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Governor Martinez signed the bill!!!!

Doe Nob
04-08-2011, 03:02 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Oh well, better start saving for landowner tags :(

I think what made me more mad than anything in the whole bill is giving all the cow elk tags to residents. I guess all non-residents are rich oil barons and won't shoot an elk less than 350. Oh wait, wouldn't those guys be in the outfitter pool?

trophyhill
04-08-2011, 10:46 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Oh well, better start saving for landowner tags :(

I think what made me more mad than anything in the whole bill is giving all the cow elk tags to residents. I guess all non-residents are rich oil barons and won't shoot an elk less than 350. Oh wait, wouldn't those guys be in the outfitter pool?

the fact is that most non residents don't come to NM to kill cows. there may be a few but for the cost of a cow tag here in NM most i know would opt for a CO OTC ES tag.

trophyhill
04-08-2011, 10:48 PM
yeah from what I heard she doesn't want to mess with the economy of New Mexico, Wow, A smart and not greedy politician, these could be a first.

our economy is no better than it is anywhere else. our governor needs to mess with it starting with getting rid of liberal policies and the corruption in our state.

Jerry
04-09-2011, 12:48 AM
I don't have a dog in this fight but if you will forgive an outsiders opinion, I think this whole thing is just another sign of follow the the money. Non Residents, residents, my state, your state, at the rate it is going within just a few years if you don't have very deep pockets you won't be able to hunt anywhere. Trophy fees, Auction Hunts, Governors Tags, and in fighting amongst ourselves is doing almost as much damage to our sport as the anti's.
I know nothing about percentages of tags for one thing or another , all I know is that every year it seems my choices become smaller and smaller about what or where to hunt. I have seen an Oregon resident on the first time ever buying a license and tag, draw and harvest a sheep that I have spent a good portion of my life waiting to draw. Is this fair? What if it was a Non resident! Just because someone has the financial ability to travel from state to state and pay the fees for the trophy hunts do they deserve any more chance than someone who doesn't have the deep pockets?
I say we are becoming our own worst enemy. We should be working together to enhance hunting access for residents and nonresidents alike, not make it harder!