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View Full Version : Proof that broadhead tunning works.



Firearrow
06-15-2011, 10:24 PM
I didnt take before pictures. The first picture is 20 yards, after some adjustment. The second one is 40 yards, after some more adjustment. The third shot is what happens when your arrow finds the soft spot. Got to love FMJ, and Montec 100's.

The blue nocks are fieldpoints, and the green are broadheads.

1250
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RUTTIN
06-16-2011, 08:34 AM
It's amazing what a little effort in tuning a bow, and your arrows can produce. Now your confidence level is up, knowing that your broad head is going where you are aiming, and that can make all the difference in the world. Great job! and thanks for sharing the pics.

Elkcrazedfrk
06-16-2011, 11:10 AM
I am truly amazed and frustrated at the amount of people who hunt without proper bow and broadhead tuning. I used to hear "well had to move my sights up 2 inches and over 4 inches but now my BH's are hitting where they should". Now I hear " well the reason I use mechanicals is because they fly just like my fieldpoint" ..I used to say " you know, its not that hard to tune ur bow/BH...here let me show you.. Usually the response is ohh thanks, but I really dont have the time or patience to do that". grrr..lol..Now I shake my head and think to myself " God help the critter that crosses this guys path..

Fact is; you guys are exactly right. The effort put into proper tuning is well worth the benefits. We as hunters take pride in good working equipment and at very least owe to the animals we hunt. Great work firearrow and yes proper tuning makes all the difference in the world.

huskyhunter
06-16-2011, 12:49 PM
I know this is gonna sound dumb, but what do you mean when you say "tune your bow"? I am seriously just starting out in archery(bought my first bow this spring) and have heard that phrase a lot, but really dont know what it means.

Firearrow
06-16-2011, 03:26 PM
I know this is gonna sound dumb, but what do you mean when you say "tune your bow"? I am seriously just starting out in archery(bought my first bow this spring) and have heard that phrase a lot, but really dont know what it means.

Tuning can mean a lot of different things. It can mean paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, "Timing Your Cams" for a two cam bow/ cam and a half, or broadhead tuning.

Go to a good proshop that has hunters in it, that shoot fix bladed broadheads, and they can start you in the right direction. If not I can walk you through it.

JNDEER
06-17-2011, 08:55 PM
Funny you post this as it is something I battle a lot

....I hear from many people on forums that it CAN be done. However when I talk to State Archer's in CA (top archers in their class) they say it CANNOT be done. You can maybe get close, but it just is not possible with ALL FB BH. I have heard that the Montecs are the closest, but I would be curious to see if you pulled out a Muzzy or Slick and than see if at 40 your groups are consistantly that tight.

Elkcrazedfrk
06-17-2011, 09:56 PM
JNDEER...Not all broadheads will have the same POI as your fieldpoints. However, with a properly tuned bow,tuned arrow,and good form, most quality fixed heads will have the same POI as your fieldpoints. I've tested montecs,strykers,tloc-shuttle,muzzys,sonics, and slicktricks(which i always have in my quiver). Everyone of them have had the exact POI out to at least 40 yards. Slicks and strykers both fly true to roughly 55yrds. At 60 I notice a slight drop from my field points. I'm not here to discredit anyone but will say with certanty that whoever says it cant be done is just plain wrong.

HUSKYHUNTER: Properly tuning a bow an arrow is process. If you are interested I'm happy to give my tips as well as offer some other websites. If you google "bow tuning" there is a whole bunch of good information out there. Best advice I can give is Dont get frustrated.

JNDEER
06-17-2011, 11:23 PM
JNDEER...Not all broadheads will have the same POI as your fieldpoints. However, with a properly tuned bow,tuned arrow,and good form, most quality fixed heads will have the same POI as your fieldpoints. I've tested montecs,strykers,tloc-shuttle,muzzys,sonics, and slicktricks(which i always have in my quiver). Everyone of them have had the exact POI out to at least 40 yards. Slicks and strykers both fly true to roughly 55yrds. At 60 I notice a slight drop from my field points. I'm not here to discredit anyone but will say with certanty that whoever says it cant be done is just plain wrong. .

I read and read that it is possible, however I have yet to accomplish it with two bow set ups. Maybe it is just me, I can't honestly say. It is my uncle and cousin who are top shooters here in CA and tell me that it just can't be done. I am able to dial in my bow for FP good out to 70 than re-dial in my bow for BH (slicks) and get it good out to 70. I guess for those that can it just makes things easier, but I always assumed that if anything was wrong with my set ups, I couldn't consistantly keep decent groups with BH out to 70.

Firearrow
06-17-2011, 11:28 PM
Yup what Elkcrazedfrk said.

Umm JNDEER. One question. How much leather have these guys from State Archer's worn off there boot, above treeline, and not in a ground blind sitting on some private property in Mendocino County. I mean no disrespect, other than I work in several archery shops over the years, and there is a big difference between a good 3-D shooter, and a hunter. A top 3-D shooter is more appt to set his bow up like is compotition rig, as I once did before I saw the light. Short axel to axel, light arrows, = broadheads all over the place. Unless you are Randy Ulner, and have flaw less form.

It all starts with a bow that fits you properly, and a bow ment for hunting, not compotion. Longer axel to axel, longer brace heigth, more passive draw curve, and the correct draw length is a must. Your bow needs to be shot in, the sting and cables streched in. Once that is done your bow needs to be timed, and the center shot set. Small adjustment to the timing, nock point, and bow poundage will bring most quality built BH in order, as long as your arrow is the correct one for your bow.

Arrow selection. I really wish people would stop worring about FPS, and KE, and all that BS. Arrows should be fitted to the bow, and the one shooting it. Not by how fast it will go. When shooting a carbon arrow for hunting it is always better to shoot a heavier spined arrow, than a lighter spined arrow. BH's fly better, or are more forgiving when properly seated onto a heavier spined arrow, than a weaker spined arrow. Dont worry about FOC, GPI, or any other abreviations. The biggest thing about arrows and broadheads is, wait for it, wait for it, how well the BH seats onto the arrow, and the spine. If the BH seats tru onto the arrow, then the arrow with the BH on it will spin tru, on you finger is the best way to feel a wobble. You may have to try seating different BH onto different arrow before you get one that spins tru. Or you may need to get one of the G5's arrow truing tools. I know that is not the name, but look at there web sight and you will see what I mean. It squares up the business end of the arrow.

I know I have been rambling on, but long story shot. If your bow fits you correctly, and your arrows fit the bow correctly, and the BH fit the arrows correctly, then yes BH tuning works. I have been doing this since 1997. If anyone needs help with this drop me a line and I can help. Or if there is a big enough call for it, maybe I sould figure out how to do a Youtube thing, so that way everyone can see how it happens.

One thing is for sure. You have to have a bow press, be will, and patient to adjust your timing, poundage, nock point.

Firearrow
06-17-2011, 11:38 PM
I read and read that it is possible, however I have yet to accomplish it with two bow set ups. Maybe it is just me, I can't honestly say. It is my uncle and cousin who are top shooters here in CA and tell me that it just can't be done. I am able to dial in my bow for FP good out to 70 than re-dial in my bow for BH (slicks) and get it good out to 70. I guess for those that can it just makes things easier, but I always assumed that if anything was wrong with my set ups, I couldn't consistantly keep decent groups with BH out to 70.

I know I should not say this, but why would you shoot and animal with a bow at 70 yards. I am all in for practicingat further distances with BH to make us all more efficent at 30, 40, maybe 50 yards. But lets be honust. We dont have Palm Pilots that have balistic info for archery, like the 1000 yard rifle club. Archery is about a Bull blowing his head off 30 yards away from you, where your heart is pounding out of your chest, and you are having a seizure. Or stalking into a mulies bed from above at 35 yards. Just becasue a buck is at 72 yards, and you shoot that far, doesn't mean you should shoot it. I know when the buck is there, and you get the adriniline rush to shoot, shoot, shoot. We all need to stop for a second and think, can I really make this shot. Other than, well lets send it and see what happens. I am not treehugger, but we need to respect the animals we hunt, and in doing so, we then have respect for our sleves. JMO.

JNDEER
06-17-2011, 11:58 PM
Firearrow - What part of the state are you in, if your near Sacto let me know via PM and maybe we can hook up and you can help me?

Both of them (cousin and uncle) are more of the indoor/outdoor FP shooters. They do hunt with their bows (hunting bows) and we are not at the liberty to hunt private lands nor ground blinds. They don't archery hunt as much as I do and have done in the past years. I guess you can only check and re-check your equipment soo much before you just say well....maybe it cannot be done. Again if you are able to get it done with your equipment than that is great. I am just saying that over and over I read of people posting that it can be done and for those beginners (like I once was) think they can go and do it and realize that maybe it just can't be done to perfection.

I don't and would not shoot at an animal at 70 or 80 yards, however being able to make this shots will make (at least for me) that shorter shots chip shots.

Firearrow
06-18-2011, 12:05 AM
I live in Rancho Cordova, and we can meet at El Dorado Hills, I am a memeber there, or Maya, not a member there. Or, all we need is 50 yards where we can shoot. I will bring a portable bow press, and tools. Send me a PM of your set up so I know what ya got.

Also, I agree with your last statement.

Firearrow
06-18-2011, 12:06 AM
Or Yolo, if yo live out that way.

Elkcrazedfrk
06-18-2011, 03:55 AM
Firearrow has some good info to offer but I would disagree that FPS, KE, GPI, and FOC dont really matter. They are all important factors in your overall arrow. To little FOC and your arrow is slower to stabilize. To much and it drops more rapidly. Yuor KE has everything to do with what kind of knockdown power your arrow will have and how much penetration. Eastmans have had a couple good articles in past EBJ regarding all of the above. There is always going to be debate about speed, KE....etc. There is so much to learn and there are so many variables that will effect a properly tuned bow and great arrow flight. Its really a matter of how anal you are about your equipment. I'm horrible, but I guess thats why I'm not happy with anything less than next to perfect. JNdeer you may want to change your arrow set-up maybe even try some different arrow rests. Have someone scrutinize your form and your grip. Those are just a couple of many things that can effect arrowflight and tuning. Good luck and let us know how you come out.

JNDEER
06-18-2011, 09:14 AM
I live in Rancho Cordova, and we can meet at El Dorado Hills, I am a memeber there, or Maya, not a member there. Or, all we need is 50 yards where we can shoot. I will bring a portable bow press, and tools. Send me a PM of your set up so I know what ya got.

Also, I agree with your last statement.

I currently shoot a Hoyt Carbon Element 30" 70#. CE Maxima Hunter 350 30", QAD Ultra rest, 100gr heads. El Dorado Bowmans don't allow BH at their range, not sure of the others? I will PM you when I get some time off to see if it would be possible to hook up at any of those locations.

Elkcrazedfrk - You can see my set up above. Everything says I am just fine. The bow was purchased in March and I have already taken it back once to ensure timming and lean was fine (with the dealer I purchased it at) and it was.

Here is what I don't understand. What I don't understand is that you would want to be able to perfrom any of the adjusting methods (paper, walk back, etc) to get things dialed in close enough so that it should almost be perfect for FP and BH. I have done paper with perfect holes at about 8 yards and no luck with my FP and BH being close at all. I went to walk back tunning (for those that don't know what that is. You take your 20 yard pin and shoot either your FP or BH depending on which one you want to tune. Walk back to 30, but aim with your 20 yard pin at the same point you aimed at 20 yards. Repeat as far back as you can for more precise tunning. You want the arrows to make a line straight down from where your 20 yard arrow hits. If the line is slanted you move the rest 1/16 and inch towards the horizontal line comeing down from the 20 yard arrow. Don't worry about where the POI is on the arrows as once you get a good line than you move your sight to get your arrows hitting that target you are aiming at. I have found you will get different results doing this if you shoot FP or BH) and got all arrows going back to 50 yards with my BH to be within 1" of the line. My FP hit about 3"-4" to the left at 20 and yes I played with adjusting my rest to get them to hit together, but they never do. So I went back to the walk back tune with the bH and this is where I am at now shooting fine out to 70.

Firearrow
06-18-2011, 09:47 AM
I bring a BH target to shoot at. No one has give me any problems. Where you see the movement in your BH to match the field points is with poundage on your bow. This will move the BH left to right. The up and down is your nock point. But don't tell anyone, it is a secret.

Elkcrazedfrk
06-18-2011, 10:30 AM
Well JNDEER sounds like you have a good grasp on what you need to be doing. I'm at a loss. Maybe firearrow or someone else who can watch you shoot will be of help. Looking at your set-up raises the question of what spined arrow are you shooting and what is your FOC. As said before to light spine or to stiff spine as well as to little or to much FOC will defenately play a big factor in POI. There is just no getting around that. Also I dont know if there is any truth to it but have heard more than once that they are having issues with the carbon element and risor flex..If that is the case,it will make all sorts of havoc for a guy.. You may try archerytalk.com Lot of good info there and folks that have all sorts of insight. If I had to guess I would say its something to do with your arrow set-up.Be patient, you will get it figured out.

woodz
06-18-2011, 10:34 AM
I agree with Firearrow and Elkcrazedfrk, it does take time and patience to get your set up tuned to your broadheads. I experienced the same problems you seem to be having earlier this year. Some adjustment to my grip and also a kisser button locke in my shooting form and soon my montecs were tearing vanes off of my field points at 40 yards. Also there are some good BH tuning videos on youtube to view. Hope this helps.

RUTTIN
06-19-2011, 03:06 PM
I agree with all of the above advise you have been given. One thing I would check into (and has been mentioned previously) check your arrows. What I mean by that, is some pro shops that cut arrows and glue inserts in, don't care if they are true. If I can get a arrow to paper tune through my bow with a field point, and broadheads don't hit where my field points do, I have always checked my arrow. If the front and back are not square, your arrow is not going to come off as straight as it needs to for a broadhead. I now square the front and back up before gluing inserts in. When I do glue inserts in, I screw a broadhead on, apply glue and spin test the insert before the glue can set up. Since I have done this, I have not had a problem getting broadheads to hit where my field points do, no matter the head I use (Muzzy, Montec, and even my big two blade Magnus) Hope this helps

Firearrow
06-19-2011, 03:39 PM
I agree with all of the above advise you have been given. One thing I would check into (and has been mentioned previously) check your arrows. What I mean by that, is some pro shops that cut arrows and glue inserts in, don't care if they are true. If I can get a arrow to paper tune through my bow with a field point, and broadheads don't hit where my field points do, I have always checked my arrow. If the front and back are not square, your arrow is not going to come off as straight as it needs to for a broadhead. I now square the front and back up before gluing inserts in. When I do glue inserts in, I screw a broadhead on, apply glue and spin test the insert before the glue can set up. Since I have done this, I have not had a problem getting broadheads to hit where my field points do, no matter the head I use (Muzzy, Montec, and even my big two blade Magnus) Hope this helps

This is what I used to do when I shot ACC's, and Thunderheads. They flew much better when you take the time to make sure your BH seat square onto your arrows.

Elkcrazedfrk
06-19-2011, 09:55 PM
Yes..use a arrow squaring device on both ends of ur arrow and then on your insert..All part of proper arrow tuning. Good job ruttin for bringing it up.

RUTTIN
06-21-2011, 10:31 PM
I know when I started to pay attention to my arrows better, my shooting improved greatly with broad heads. It really does help to take the time to tune your equipment, even if you think it might be a pain the butt. Patience is a virtue with bowhunting. (and bow tuning)

gunnihunter
07-14-2011, 08:51 PM
Firearrow, can you tell me more about the poundage statement? If I am a right handed shooter, and I want to move my BH left, do I adjust up or down on the poundage? I am new to BH tuning and I am struggling a bit. I checked the arrow spine and that is fine, so I am looking for other adjustments beyond moving the rest. It may be my form, grip, etc, but not getting the movement left that I would expect.

Elkcrazedfrk
07-15-2011, 12:52 AM
Gunnihunter..Go to huntersfriend.com and look up bow tuning and walkback tuning. It will tell you exactly what you need to know plus much more. And as Ruttin stated. The time spent is worth it.

woodz
07-15-2011, 07:21 PM
Gunnihunter, easton also has a great free download on their website. I haven't looked at the huntersfriend tuning but im sure it is also quality. I have purchased from them in the past and they are very helpful.

Firearrow
07-15-2011, 07:53 PM
I used the info from easton. Turn poundage down. I do a quarter turn at a time, top and bottom limb bolts. Once yo get 20 dialed, go to 30, then 40, and so on. At the further distances I do 1/8 turn.

gunnihunter
07-16-2011, 10:30 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the help! I will give it another try with these added resources and suggestions.