Shoot; I'm not lucky, just old and experienced enough to see what goes on in other states. PP systems don't do a darn thing for someone who starts 10 years after the system is implemented. There will be hunts in WY ten years from now that will be unreachable for a person starting out. That's a fact played out in every PP state in the West.
Unfortunately there are no perfect systems but from what my experience has been, a bonus point system coupled with a "tiered" wait period would be the best solution. Those that draw need to sit on the side and wait for others, BUT with so many hunt options available that guy still needs to be able to hunt, just not the identical hunt he already drew.
It seems to me, with so much on the line, a system could be designed that addresses the failures of those systems currently in use. Unfortunately, Hicks doesn't have the vision to see that. If all Wyoming residents are concerned with is getting that tag for today's crop of hunters, go the Preference Point route. But, as I mentioned above, down the road there will be a new crew looking to change what you did to them.
On the flip side, there are hunts that a point system can never fix as you're seeing with Sheep. If you give out 10 tags and 1,000 apply the first year, that max point pool will be dead before it's cleaned out. Nothing will fix it short of more tags or fewer applicants. Add to that, the perception hunters have that they're entitled to hunt every species in their state. Those types don't seem the grasp the reality that if everyone had that entitlement there wouldn't be any game to hunt.
There is no easy answer and some time to look at and design other options is what's needed, not just throwing a PP system against the wall to see if it sticks.
I've often wondered if a PP system where the applicant was only issued points for the one particular area applied for would have any merit. If an applicant had to choose a single area to accumulate points in and not be able to "jump" areas and flood one particular up and coming area with applicants it could alleviate some of the stress put on areas with small tag quotas. In my mind, this could be a way of "localizing" a PP system. Just some food for thought...
Guy some of your concerns will be addressed if they decrease the percentage of tags going to non resi's for moose & sheep. As for $500 for a license, what about the kids. I put my daughter in for Moose the last two years with the hope she'll draw a tag sometime in the next 40 years. If the cost went to a $1000 I'd keep putting her in, but what about the folks who can't afford $500. How many kids won't be applying and may never apply because by the time they're old enough to afford it, they'll be so far behind they'll never draw? Short sighted on your part. Also, I'll disagree with you about choosing between limited quota and general season deer. A lot of folks, myself included put some of the blame on the Eastman's and others like Carter's for having over publicized area's G & H in the past. Now you're trying to come up with a solution to fix the problem? No offense, just calling it the way I see it...
$500 a tag is a great idea, you can purchase just points for $11 each year. If you really want to hunt moose or sheep and know you have enough points to draw a tag, you will find a way to get $500 to do it. Im really glad they require the entire amount for buffalo this year, it weeds a lot of the people out that aren't so serious. I know a lot of people who apply and never go once even with a great tag, last year my buddy put his wife in for hard to draw deer and elk (<20%) she drew them both and went one day for elk and never went once for deer... the fee increase would definitely limit this for all species.
The kids can still apply for youth points in WY for sheep and moose at a very reasonable rate. But in my opinion, if they want to actually hunt a sheep or moose, it would cost $500. A sheep or a Shiras' moose is well worth more than $500 in this day and age. Statistically speaking, they are probably already so far behind the curve with WY trophy species that they may never draw already. That ship has already sailed.
I was lucky enough to be born and raised right on the line between the G and H region. Purely from a mathematical standpoint, the hunting pressure in those areas from nonresident hunters has actually gone down, way down over the past 20 years. When I was a kid back int he 80s there was well over 2,500 nonresident tags in both regions for deer, now there is about 800. So the non-resident hunting pressure has actually been significantly reduced over the last few decades in G and H.
I guess, I don't really understand what exactly Carter's and I ruined in those regions. The hunting pressure, the draw odds, or the trophy potential?
Guy and all,
You all have brought up some really, really good points and some great ideas. I think we're going to see if the theory of raising prices helps with odds based on the new Bison requirement going into effect this year. My guess is that this will cut applicants in half or more. I for one am in favor of these increases but I think there should be some youth prices at a more reasonable fee. We need kids hunting regardless of species.
I very much agree with the fact that almost every area for every species in WY has seen HUGE increases in pressure, especially areas with large amounts of public land. I think the overall quality of hunting in WY has dropped significantly in the past 10 years, due both to fewer animals and more hunters. Now, with that said, I know for a fact that WY has some of the best hunting to be found anywhere in the lower 48. As with all states and situations, we as hunters have to continue working together with our dollars to help fund conservation efforts to help put more animals in the hills. This ensures our hunting heritage and at the end of the day puts more tags in all of our pockets.
On another note very similar in topic, several wardens, biologists, and landowners have been meeting periodically discussing Type 9 seasons in a host of elk and deer areas in central WY. I won't be surprised if we start seeing more Type 9 permits and a shorter "general archery" type season in limited quota elk and deer areas, ie 9/1-9/15 type 9 only, 9/16-9/30, all hunters with archery tag.
Great discussion everyone, will be interesting to see what comes of this but during a Legislative Budget Session, I won't hold my breath.
Having a point system for sheep was a foolish move to begin with. The one thing oregon did right was a random draw and once in a lifetime when drawn.
Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along. In my opinion, Nevada has the best draw system out there.
Originally Posted by Guy
As a nonresident I don't really have a dog in this but even though I do buy them I'm no fan of points. When you do use the ones you have you're done and unable to catch up. Feels like a one shot deal.
There have been some interesting ideas thrown out here, if it goes that way I would hope all involved think it through.
Have you ever applied in Nevada? Im not saying I dont like their system. I like that it gives everyone some chance to draw, but I cant draw a tag there to save my life. Even tried to burn my antelope points lastyear on an easier to draw unit that everyone with my points easily drew the year before and didnt even draw that. I think it would help the drawing odds alot if they drew everyones first choice first before considering other choices. I also dont like that points apply to everything including the second draw for leftover tags. As a NR I like Wyomings NR draw system better then any other states I apply in.
Originally Posted by Elkoholic307