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  1. #71
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    Long range shooting isn't MY definition of "Fair Chase". I take pride in getting as close to an animal as possible before making a precise shot. My shortest shot with a rifle is 17 yds on a 170ish mule deer and 2 yds with a bow on a whitetail doe (I was on the ground). Most of my shots are under 100 yards.
    we only work around here to break the monotony of hunting and fishing

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntnguide View Post
    +1..I dont believe its right to be risking a wounded animal when so many variables you cannot control are at play. I am sure for every animal killed at that distance plenty more are wounded and not talked about...Congrats to guys who can make those shots, but i believe those shots should be at paper and metal plates only. not live animals.
    Very well said! I personally think it's for instant gratification and look at me I'm a great hunter. There called shooters not hunters either it be bowhunting or gun hunting. I also feel they don't respect the animals they pursue. A lot of hunters see these DVDs and shows and will definitely attempt those shots and they can't hit an 8" plate at 20yds with a bow or a paper target at 200yds with a gun. I commend their ability on targets but not live animals!

  3. #73
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    get a grip

    This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen on any forum. "ethical hunting" what is that? I love to hunt and shoot just as much as the next guy I respect the animals so to speak. In the sense that I have to outsmart them on their terms. Taking an animal is a satisfying feat in itself. HOWEVER if your all wanting to be fair to these animals, then the High Fencers are UNethical hunters, the animals cant leave. Aalso people who go out on a farm where the deer are used to seeing the farmer every morning are UNethical hunters because that deer never expected that in a million years (much like that deer at 1000 yards) that farmer John was just biding his time till the day he could come out with the ole’ 06 and blast one of those little furry fellers. Ppeople who hunt over feeders... again UNethical. You might as well start feeding the neighbors cat till he gets comfortable with you then blast him with a shotgun at 5 yards. Dont even get me started on bow hunters! A bow hunter is restricted the vital zone on an animal and can only take a broadside or quartering shot. Sometimes they can pull off a facing shot and sometimes an arrow in the shoulder will put one down (Deer and antelope) probably not an elk. And arrows are so affected by wind at all ranges how can that be an ethical weapon of choice? At least with my rifle I can break the shoulders if that’s the only shot or if heaven forbid I wound an animal I can put one up the tail pipe and put them down as they are gimping away. How many follow up shots can be made on a wounded animal with a bow? Dont tell me its all about shot placement because that has already been shot down with the long range debate. (you cant rely on shot placement because there are too many variables) like wind! right bow hunters? My point is what defines "ethical hunting"? The person as an individual! I know people that shouldnt take 200 yard shots with a rifle from a dead rest. They go out the day before opening morning and shoot a little rock on a hill to check their zero and call it good. I personally feel comfortable taking an animal at 1000 yards I shoot my rifles all the time and I know what my limitations are. I only take the shot IF the conditions are right. just because I know I can do it doesnt mean I am going to take the shot every time. the conditions need to be pretty good for me to attempt this shot. but there are tricks to the trade, although not fool proof, they are very effective. First thing I do is find an animal and I want it to be standing still or laying down. then I evaluate the conditions at my location using a wind meter that also measures temperature, elevation, humidity, pressure etc,, then i use my optics to evaluate vegetation and mirage if present. then if possible (which it usually is), I check vegetation, mirage etc. between me and my target. then i input all this information into a ballistics program which calculates drop, wind drif, spin drift coriolis effect. and I dial that into my scope adjustments. and I practice this on a weekly basis. And I have done it enough to know my limitations. To top it off I use a 300 grain sierra match king with a ballistic coefficient of .765 to help make up for my short comings in evaluating the conditions. How many of you put all that effort into your shots? No body wants to wound an animal, but it happens weather you are a bow hunter, handgun hunter, or rifle hunter, long, short or medium range. its all in your ability. and the only way to measure your ability is to practice not just at the range but in hunting type scenarios. So to all of you “ethical” hunters out there, Get Over Yourself! It is a ridiculous argument. Nobody follows all the rules all the time because as we can all agree some of them are absolutely ridiculous. So Apparently none of us are ethical.

    Mike

  4. #74
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    Wow, I guess that last comment put an end to all the debate. Figured I would join in though. Sitting in sunny Afghanistan while my friend hunts my bait station this spring in AK. No hunting animals for me so may as well read posts on here. I posted asking about some Mule deer stuff in Wyoming but no reply yet......soooo

    I hate to see these debates with hunters fighting hunters on who has the MOST and BEST ethics. The debates that pretty much say if you don't do it my way, you shouldn't do it.

    I am not a long range hunter, but I did kill a caribou with one shot at 368 yards a few years ago. Was pretty awesome and I considered myself just as much of a hunter as when I shot the blackbear from a treestand with a longbow at 10yds and when I snuck up on the sleeping grizzly bear at 35 yards and watched my buddy miss the shot with his compound.

    I am also not sure on how much of the long range shooting is actually "hunting". But who is to say it is not. The long range shooters spend just as much money on their tags, rifles, bullets and all the other items that put the money back into the wildlife as the shortrange shooters do.

    Where are the "wounded game" statistics to support the claims that all the "variables" cannot be overcome? I mean I have seen some short range shooters do some pretty stupid things. And don't even bring into account the bowhunting debate over long versus short range.

    As for the animal. Killing it at 100 and killing it at 1000 are the same thing. It is dead and the hunter has won the battle of man versus animal.

    I absolutely love to hunt. I am looking forward to bears upon my return to AK next spring, Dall sheep next fall and fingers crossed mule deer in October. There will be plenty others in between.

    If the goal for this thread is to say that long range hunting is wrong.....well.....as I said before they are still a valuable asset is supporting our rights to hunt and fish with the money provided.

    What if PETA came on here and told all the short range.."ethical"... hunters that all hunting was wrong and unethical and no animal should ever be harmed. Would that mean that you are going to give it up.....Hopefully not, so why tell your fellow hunter, the one that does all the right things to make a vital shot(not the aim high and letter fly guy) that what he is doing is wrong and he should stop.

    Work together to keep hunting a right this great country.

    My $.02

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  6. #75
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    Yeah, it looks like Tikkamike ended this. Nobody has a reply lol
    Arise... Kill, Eat! - Acts 10:13

  7. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkoholic307 View Post
    As I read thru this thread, “too many variables” seems to be the popular phrase. I’m curious to know what everyone means by that. I would say one variable is human error or inability. The people that shoot once a year right before hunting season could be a variable because they’re not proficient with their weapon. But my guess is, it’s mainly wind and time of flight. I am aware of both. Do you think I only shoot at far distances when the conditions are perfect? It doesn’t matter if it is still out or blowing 15 mph, I am still out shooting and will compensate for whatever necessary because I have the data and equipment to do so. At long range, a hunter has a lot of time for proper preparation and time to find a solid rest. The hunter also has time to study the animal, hence the patience to take the shot at the right time.

    You can get close to almost anything, but what about when you can't? It's not like long range rifles can only shoot long range. I still try to get in close for the shot, but reality is sometimes you can't. And, when I can't, I know I can still make the shot farther away. Trust me, confidence in yourself and your weapon is a great feeling. Years ago, I watched my brother pass up a 600 yard shot on a B&C bull elk. At that point in time, I wasn’t prepared for that range either. But, now I am; and I believe it’s going to give me a big advantage.

    Long range obviously isn’t for everyone. We reload to squeeze every ounce of accuracy out of our rifles. We use high quality equipment from rangefinders, to wind meters, to levels, and drop charts for proper bullet placement, etc.

    If you can’t shoot long range or have no interest in it, that’s fine. Just don’t stand in the way of those that can.
    +1

    Summed up in a nutshell. If 1k yards is the only opportunity I have at the buck of a lifetime, I want to be prepared for it.

    Btw I just switched to a vld bullet from a nosler. I am in heaven.

  8. #77
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    I can't make a 1,000 yard shot. I wouldn't try it at 500 yards even though I practice that far. While I do believe there are plenty of people that can make a 1,000 yard shot and beyond ethically, I agree with some of the posters on this forum, that they shouldn't be glorified on these TV shows. I'm not going to tell someone they are not being ethical because they are making a 1,000 yard shot, that's not my call, it's up to the individual hunter. If we start drawing these lines for everyone, then someone can come along and say we are not being ethical, because we aren't sneaking up on these animals and being able to slit their throats with a razor blade. There's too many devisive lines that are being drawn among hunters, when we are being attacked by anti-hunting groups to stop us from hunting all together. We all share one thing in common, the love of being outdoors and chasing these animals we have such a passion for. Don't glorify the long distance shows by watching them and eventually they will go away. They are driven by the all might dollar to sell their products. By showing those kills, their viewers believe they can make those shots if they just have that type of setup. It was kinda like me as a little white kid at 12 years old on a basketball court. I know I can dunk, I just need Nike Air Jordans to be able to do it!!!

  9. #78
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    How far away would you have to be to get a 1 shot kill on this thread. Dead horse BANG! dead horse BANG! etc. etc.

  10. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by plentycoupe View Post
    Wow, I guess that last comment put an end to all the debate. Figured I would join in though. Sitting in sunny Afghanistan while my friend hunts my bait station this spring in AK. No hunting animals for me so may as well read posts on here. I posted asking about some Mule deer stuff in Wyoming but no reply yet......soooo

    I hate to see these debates with hunters fighting hunters on who has the MOST and BEST ethics. The debates that pretty much say if you don't do it my way, you shouldn't do it.

    I am not a long range hunter, but I did kill a caribou with one shot at 368 yards a few years ago. Was pretty awesome and I considered myself just as much of a hunter as when I shot the blackbear from a treestand with a longbow at 10yds and when I snuck up on the sleeping grizzly bear at 35 yards and watched my buddy miss the shot with his compound.

    I am also not sure on how much of the long range shooting is actually "hunting". But who is to say it is not. The long range shooters spend just as much money on their tags, rifles, bullets and all the other items that put the money back into the wildlife as the shortrange shooters do.

    Where are the "wounded game" statistics to support the claims that all the "variables" cannot be overcome? I mean I have seen some short range shooters do some pretty stupid things. And don't even bring into account the bowhunting debate over long versus short range.

    As for the animal. Killing it at 100 and killing it at 1000 are the same thing. It is dead and the hunter has won the battle of man versus animal.

    I absolutely love to hunt. I am looking forward to bears upon my return to AK next spring, Dall sheep next fall and fingers crossed mule deer in October. There will be plenty others in between.

    If the goal for this thread is to say that long range hunting is wrong.....well.....as I said before they are still a valuable asset is supporting our rights to hunt and fish with the money provided.

    What if PETA came on here and told all the short range.."ethical"... hunters that all hunting was wrong and unethical and no animal should ever be harmed. Would that mean that you are going to give it up.....Hopefully not, so why tell your fellow hunter, the one that does all the right things to make a vital shot(not the aim high and letter fly guy) that what he is doing is wrong and he should stop.

    Work together to keep hunting a right this great country.

    My $.02
    Plentycoupe- I couldn’t agree more with your post.

    I think whether you’re a short-ranger or a long-ranger you’re out there because you love being in the outdoors, love the physical and mental challenge and love being around people who have that in common. Spending the time to be prepared and using good judgment and restraint is what ethics is about, not some arbitrary number of yards.

    By the way, one thing I think we can all agree on is that it’s because of the sacrifices your making that we have the right to hunt and own firearms, among other things, so thank you for your service!

  11. #80
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    I thinks its everyhunters choice and they should have limits set on their own capabilities. Me I wish people would start talking on how close the shot was instead of the distance.

 

 

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