tuning problems

[Grizbacker]

Ok i need some help from the experts please. I am having a lot of issues tuning my bow. It is a new 2011 carbon element. I had it all set up with a qad drop away rest and spot hog sight. The guys at the bow shop couldn't get it to tune right so they put some twist in the cables and told me it should be good to go. I get it home and sure enough i can tell the arrow is flying sideways. I take it back and tell them, and we shoot it through the paper and it is tearing right and left with no pattern. The guy there tells me this is fine because it is not tearing bad (.5 to 1.5 inches) and he doesn't want to mess with it anymore. So i decide i am done with them and take it home to try to tune myself.

So it is tearing both left and right but no pattern. Even tried each arrow individualy and still no pattern. What should i do to get is shooting strait? Thanks in advance!

[dcestnik]

1/2 - 1 1/2" off on paper sounds very bad. Check your arrow spine charts, cam timing, rest drop, centershot and form for obvious issues before even tuning a nockpoint. My draw stops were 1/2" off and was still able to get close to bullet holes.

[DaveZ]

The way you describe the right left tears with no pattern, I would start with checking that everthing is tight (rest, nock point, etc.). Then make sure your not getting any fletching contact. Lastly, make sure your rest is getting out of the way.

If you don't find anything that is obvious, double check all the bow specs (axel to axel, brace height, draw weight). Let me know what you find.

FYI-Your experience is why I stopped going to "Pro Shops". Except for a few, they should remove the "Pro".

[RUTTIN]

When I paper tune, I start off with a bare shaft, that way you can be sure you are not getting any fletching clearance problems. Like mentioned above make sure you are using the correct spine arrow. Make sure your bow is in spec.(axle to axle, brace height, and cams timed right) Another problem some people have is torquing the bow, make sure you shoot with a relaxed hand. If you still have problems and don't trust your pro shop, you may consider having your bow shipped to a reputable dealer that will do the job right, like The Bow Rack in Springfield Oregon, or Mountain Archery in Idaho, both places should take care of you without any problems.

[Grizbacker]

Thanks for the help guys. I am shooting carbon express maxima 350's with 70 lb draw 29.5 inch draw length so the spine is ok. I am pretty new to archery so not real all that great at the tuning/checking clearances with the rest. I am shooting with the cock feather oriented strait up oriented with the string and the bump on the nock perpedicular to it on the right side. Is this right? should i mess with it at all? Also it seems that my arrow is not perfectly level. By this i mean slightly downhill or the point is lower than the nock almost like the dloop is too high on the string. Is this bad?

[Grizbacker]

Just checked my axle to axle length and it came in at 31 3/4 inches which i think is a 1/4 inch short?

[RUTTIN]

Grizbacker, you are correct you are a 1/4 inch short. ATA should be 32 inches, and brace height should be 7 inches. I would get those in spec first and then start tuning. You could also smear some of your wifes lipstick(red works good) on your fletchings, shoot an arrow and see if you have lipstick on your rest to see if your rest is out of time. If you have your manual for your bow it should give you a good starting point on what to do to tune it. Usually a right or left tear is the arrow rest is not set for center shot, or the handle is being torqued, try having a friend shoot your bow and see what they get out of it.

[Graylight]

If they twisted your cable, like you had said, that will explain your axle to axle being 1/4" short... You may want to take the twists out... Start with two, then go from there until you're into spec. Also, remember that spec is just the manufacturers reference point, as all bows shoot slightly different even in the same model line...

Just checked my axle to axle length and it came in at 31 3/4 inches which i think is a 1/4 inch short?

[8750]

The way you describe the right left tears with no pattern, I would start with checking that everthing is tight (rest, nock point, etc.). Then make sure your not getting any fletching contact. Lastly, make sure your rest is getting out of the way.

If you don't find anything that is obvious, double check all the bow specs (axel to axel, brace height, draw weight). Let me know what you find.

FYI-Your experience is why I stopped going to "Pro Shops". Except for a few, they should remove the "Pro".

The last line are my sentiments exactly!
Im pretty new to archery and I took my new bow in to have it tuned and a new sight put on at the local "Pro" shop. I am so happy they did such a terrible job because it motivated me to do some research, invest in a few crucial tools, and start learning to master my bow. I still have a lot to learn, but there is a ton of information available. Ive learned a great deal by searching this site alone. There really are not many secrets and it baffles me how the "pro" shops flail so bad at what is not rocket science.

Get a book, search forums like this and many retail sights like Spott Hogg and Gold Tip for info. Most of all learn to enjoy the learning curve. The greatest gains in knowledge come from the inevitable mistakes made during the process.

[JNDEER]

Thanks for the help guys. I am shooting carbon express maxima 350's with 70 lb draw 29.5 inch draw length so the spine is ok. I am pretty new to archery so not real all that great at the tuning/checking clearances with the rest. I am shooting with the cock feather oriented strait up oriented with the string and the bump on the nock perpedicular to it on the right side. Is this right? should i mess with it at all? Also it seems that my arrow is not perfectly level. By this i mean slightly downhill or the point is lower than the nock almost like the dloop is too high on the string. Is this bad?

What are your arrows cut to?

Yes and NO!

I had the hardest time with my 2011 Element. I have a 30" draw and was using maxima hunter 350's but cut to 30". After a lot of research even if I cut them to 28" I would still be underspined!!

It is my opinion that you are underspinned. According to the charts at 70# and the very aggressive cam systems on the Hoyt your actual poundage (when selecting a CX arrow) would be around 85 or more. You may need to upgrade to the 450's.

That is what I did and had them cut to 29".... At first I still had issues with the tune. I could not paper tune or bare shaft tune AT ALL! I went to walk back tunning with my FP (make sure you use the FP) and go to say 40 yards. Than go to broadhead tunning and see if you are close. I was still off and when I tried to BH tune they kept the same distance apart while moving the rest. This was very frustrating.....after more advice it was suggested that I was torqueing my bow. I really did NOT think I was as I had a loose relaxed hold with little to no kick of the bow upon release. I tried moving my grip around and adjusting it and wamo!

That was my problem. I am now getting great BH and FP flight with them hitting the same POI.