I finally got to the range on sat. the best result was a 3" group with 250 thor 80 grain by weight black horn. I put a scope on just to get a load sorted out. 80 by weight is around 110 by volume. I didn't get to try different charges because rain came.I then went back early today figured i would start with a clean gun at 80 grains again for three shots then try other loads. the result was all three shots where dead even on windage but elevation was about 3" variation. the thors go down with different pressure and I do the same cleaning every time 2 lightly damp patches with butches. I'm guessing the varying elevation is something that can improve but not sure what to change, any ideas would be helpful. I never got to try other charges it started raining hard and hasn't stopped.
Try less powder. You can't find what your gun likes if you stick to the same load. 80gr by weight is a heavy load.
I only use 80gr by volume for deer.
Also, like I said earlier. Omega's have a habit of not liking conicals. You might have one. I've never seen a range report of an Accura V2 shooting worse than 1" @100yds. Some will do it at 200yds if the shooter is up for it.
Anyway, play with different powder loads.
Last edited by Old Hunter; 08-12-2012 at 09:24 AM.
That was with a cva v2 and the black horn breach plug .501 thor and he is sending .500 and .501 in 300 grain for me to try next weekend. the omega shot about the same group but with a peep than rain shut me down. the thor .501 may be to tight.
Thanks for all your help. carl
How tight is the fit for the Thor? I need both hands to get mine down.
Not sure you need a 300gr for deer. I use the 250gr for elk, but maybe the 300gr will like your gun better.
I've never seen a CVA shoot a 3" group. You need to keep working with it.
Just to show you what the gun should do. I didn't shoot this, but I wanted to show it to you. This was shot at 300yds. The two lower shots were scope adjustments. The top three shots was the group it shot.
Mainboy: There is a lot of good info being given to you, but with a hunt looming, I would be concerned about chasing too many rabbit trails. Every time you change a variable, the process starts over on getting that new load dialed in. If I was in your shoes and worried about being short for time, I'd go back to what was working well with the Powerbelts. Shooting 2" groups (@ 100 yards) with open sights is excellent accuracy, since at least half of that group spread is due to using open sights. You likely would have had less then 1" groups had the gun been scoped.
If you did not have problems with hang fires and miss fires when shooting your original groups, then it is 99.5% likely your problem was a dirty breech plug, that was the variable that changed. There were two solutions mentioned in this thread and BOTH are necessary to clean the flash channel. Get a close fitting drill to ream out the flash channel, ALSO get a torch tip cleaner from a welding supply (a fine wire with jagged edges) and clean out the fine hole in the breech plug. When it comes to muzzleloading, a dirty breech plug is the "root of all evil"...or at least 85% of the problem :-) If you have a fully clean breech plug, and for the next 10-15 shots you get instantaneous ignition, the primer you were using is fine, since it gave you good accuracy as well. If you have a hang fire with a clean breech plug, then start looking for a new 209 primer.
Before shooting your groups with Blackhorn 209, take one fouling shot, as most guns shoot differently on a clean and oiled barrel. After the fouling shot begin shooting your groups. No swabbing is needed between shots with Blackhorn 209, and swabbing may actually affect your accuracy for the worse. If your shooting session goes over say 30 shots or you notice any delay in ignition, remove the breech plug, ream it out with a drill and torch tip cleaner.
After each range session, fully clean the gun, including reaming out the breech plug and cleaning with the torch tip cleaner. Again, shoot one fouling shot before starting to shoot groups, sight in, or to go hunting.
The only problem I have had with Blackhorn 209, and its a serious one, is I had a stainless barrel corrode out that I didn't clean for several months. I called Montana Powders and they did not have a clear answer for me, only that they have seen it happen occasionally. The best indication I have so far of why this occurred is a theory that certain brands of 209 primers chemically react with the powder and start the corrosion process. For that reason I now fully clean the gun after each range session. The reason I bring that up, is possibly after your early range session, the breech plug (if not properly cleaned) built up a bit of scale in storage, and that is what caused your subsequent problems. More then likely however it was a carbon build up.
That's my 2 cents.
Last edited by Umpqua Hunter; 08-12-2012 at 12:06 PM.
I am amazed at how the rabbit hole keeps going. With that said the good grouping I got with the omega was with a cci 209 muzzy primer which I believe to be some of the hang fire problems and I didn't get the same results with cci 209 or cci 209mag. My guess is that the bigger primer may get the bullet moving or disturbed by the time the powder actually does. So I'm a bit timid to go back to that primer to recreate that group.
With the thor bullets in the cva they certainly go down hard. I broke the jag threads where they meet the ram rod this morning. I just got back from cabelas to replace the range rod. That's a first for me. I may have to print this thread out. I think I will be learning from this info for a while. I have only hunted in sabot states in the east as far as muzzle loaders go. Learning conicals is quite interesting and will help improve as a hunter, shooter. I like it, but running out of time is hard especially when I like to be dialed and started 5 months ago thinking I had plenty of time.
So after reading all above my next move will be to try the omega again with the one load and take extra notice of breach plug and see what happens and with the cva I will drop the powder charge. Im hopping my son will take a nap giving one more try at the rang today. I have ben very diligent about cleaning gun asap cas I did the dreaded and damaged a good sabot shooter a couple years ago.
Thanks to all of you, Carl
You didn't mention what breech plug and primer you're using on the CVA?
Ok, that should work fine.
Go find a good load.