thanks for all your help, ive comitted to unit 54 for archery hunt, seems kind of foolish not to have. just got my topos in the mail yesterday and im anxious to get down to that part of the state. I've pin pointed a few spots on the map im going to checkout, anyone that knows that area please pm me. not like there are alot of tags there and the odds of a guy drawing that unit again arent good, so no honey holes will be spoiled. the rut up this way has been getting started later and later these last few years, how has it been further south in 54? we was calling in pissed off bulls during the deer hunt last year, oct 10th.