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  1. #11
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    Wyoming back country has always been on my "Bucket List" it def kills me knowing for the most part that if I wanted to do it I would have to pay a guide. Seems money driven to me as previously stated

  2. #12
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    During the summer the grizzlies are up high and not scouring for food with hibernation near...This time of year its a different story. I deal with grizzlies everyday where we guide. Last hunt a griz went through an 11,000 volt fence at night to try to get in to our camp, we obviously chased him off. We run 3 strand fence around the entire camp powered by boat batteries that hits 11,000 volts. How many DIY that have never had to deal with grizzlies have any idea how to protect a camp from these bears and are going to have the ability to pack in enough gear to safely do so? If you havent hunted around the Western wyoming areas that the grizzlies are thick in, you have no idea what its like. There is a reason any random person shouldnt be allowed to hunt in it without proper experience on how to keep grizzlies from getting free meals. The way these bears act during July is entirely different than now. They follow my horse tracks everyday hoping to get a meal. We have a couple specific bears in our area that will be on us within 30 minutes of having shot at something. Its a different game that many people do not understand because they have never had to deal with it. If wyoming opened the wilderness areas to anyone, I guarantee the amount of bad grizzly encounters would shoot through the roof, as nobody understands what they are capable of until you deal with it constantly.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntnguide View Post
    During the summer the grizzlies are up high and not scouring for food with hibernation near...This time of year its a different story. I deal with grizzlies everyday where we guide. Last hunt a griz went through an 11,000 volt fence at night to try to get in to our camp, we obviously chased him off. We run 3 strand fence around the entire camp powered by boat batteries that hits 11,000 volts. How many DIY that have never had to deal with grizzlies have any idea how to protect a camp from these bears and are going to have the ability to pack in enough gear to safely do so? If you havent hunted around the Western wyoming areas that the grizzlies are thick in, you have no idea what its like. There is a reason any random person shouldnt be allowed to hunt in it without proper experience on how to keep grizzlies from getting free meals. The way these bears act during July is entirely different than now. They follow my horse tracks everyday hoping to get a meal. We have a couple specific bears in our area that will be on us within 30 minutes of having shot at something. Its a different game that many people do not understand because they have never had to deal with it. If wyoming opened the wilderness areas to anyone, I guarantee the amount of bad grizzly encounters would shoot through the roof, as nobody understands what they are capable of until you deal with it constantly.
    Sounds as tho this regulation should apply to residents also, given these conditions. Singleing out NR's makes no sense as the grizzlies cannot tell the difference!!! I went on a guided hunt last year to Thorofare and yes, there were bears and wolves too for that matter. Our outfitter did the same as you at our camp. The bears are smart (and conditioned) enough to know a gut pile is probable after a shot. I still don't know how they can tell the difference between a NR and a city person from Jackson!
    Colorado Cowboy
    Cowboy Action Shooter; Endowment Life Member-NRA
    The Original Rocket Scientist-Retired
    "My Father always considered a walk in the mountains as the equivalent of church going."
    Aldous Huxley

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  5. #14
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    mtnguide,

    I guess I don't understand the argument.

    Girzzly bears in Wyoming Wilderness areas are more dangerous than those in other states? or outside the wilderness boundary?

    They are only dangerous to hunters, but not hikers, photographers, miners, or fisherman?

    I am quite comfortable hunting in Grizzly country myself, and I fully understand the risks of any wilderness activity. I don't think I need a guide to tell me how to deal with bears ... or moose ... or windstorms ... or lightning ... or steep slopes ... or flash floods ... or homicidal maniacs ... or any other number of dangers in the wild.

    I have no problem paying extra for out of state tags, or giving residents preference on draws, but arbitrarily nixing public wilderness from non-res hunters for the protection of an industry just doesn't sit well with me.

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  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntnguide View Post
    During the summer the grizzlies are up high and not scouring for food with hibernation near...This time of year its a different story. I deal with grizzlies everyday where we guide. Last hunt a griz went through an 11,000 volt fence at night to try to get in to our camp, we obviously chased him off. We run 3 strand fence around the entire camp powered by boat batteries that hits 11,000 volts. How many DIY that have never had to deal with grizzlies have any idea how to protect a camp from these bears and are going to have the ability to pack in enough gear to safely do so? If you havent hunted around the Western wyoming areas that the grizzlies are thick in, you have no idea what its like. There is a reason any random person shouldnt be allowed to hunt in it without proper experience on how to keep grizzlies from getting free meals. The way these bears act during July is entirely different than now. They follow my horse tracks everyday hoping to get a meal. We have a couple specific bears in our area that will be on us within 30 minutes of having shot at something. Its a different game that many people do not understand because they have never had to deal with it. If wyoming opened the wilderness areas to anyone, I guarantee the amount of bad grizzly encounters would shoot through the roof, as nobody understands what they are capable of until you deal with it constantly.
    I agree with you!
    I don't think he is saying that a bear can tell the difference between a NR and a resident but living in the state where we have all these animals in our backyard, we are trained and have the knowledge of how to best prepare ourselves and deal with the situation. I'm not saying NR don't, I'm sure some do but someone from South Carolina coming out here for their first DIY experience probably doesn't fully understand how deadly these mountains can be. There have been a lot of threads on here asking about how to best prepare for bears and the back country. Think of how many grizzly attacks there are in Yellowstone every year from tourists out hiking and camping. I truly don't think that the wilderness thing is a money hungry deal. You can get a resident guide to go with and they don't have to charge anything. Obviously, people from other wilderness states like Alaska are going to know how to handle themselves but I don't think they want to re-write the regulations to allow a couple of states to be able to hunt our wilderness and not others.

    When is the hating on Wyoming going to end?!

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  9. #16
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    The law has been in effect my whole life. In the 1970's it had nothing to do with grizzlys as there weren't that many. It had everything to do with search and rescue.

    My father was the head of Fremont County search and rescue during that time, and the thought was that they would reduce the number of search and rescue incidents by not allowing non-residents into the wilderness. I did a cursory google search to see when the law came into effect and I can't find anything. I am sure a search of Wyoming state statues would put up a date.

    Most Wyoming wilderness areas are near or connected to Yellowstone or Grand Teton National Park. Like Montana's Bob Marshal and the big one I can't remember the name of in Idaho (Is it Frank Cook?), these are huge areas. A wrong turn, a bad fall, and now some bears acting non-Yogi like can really ruin your day. Add that little note to being 20-80 miles from a road, and you can be in serious doggie doo really quickly.

    Your right someone who has back country experience in another Western stated and fully understands what making a go of life in the wilderness is all about, probably won't get into trouble.

    But how do they police it? How do they qualify experience? Or outfitting and equipment? They could do it like the Klondike where you had to have a laundry list of equipment just to walk into the area, and have it checked off by a Game Warden at the trailhead.

    A mountain of anti-bear devices isn't going to keep a trio of Texans alive when the mercury drops to minus 30 and their GPS batteries die. So they freeze to death on a mountain pass because they can't 3 point triangulate their location to get back on the trail head and down the mountain.

    Or a backpacker from the Sierras that has climbed and hunted all over the world, but he wants to travel light so he forgoes the 12 volt battery and electric fence and ends up as bear poop.

    Another wonderful aspect of the wilderness areas is even the residents of Wyoming don't really use them in any great numbers.

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitterroot Bulls View Post
    mtnguide,



    Girzzly bears in Wyoming Wilderness areas are more dangerous than those in other states?
    Montana Bear

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    Wyoming Bear


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  11. #18
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    Bitterroot-
    Thats great you are comfortable in grizzly country..But that is because you have had the opportunity to live and hunt in it. Grizzlies reside in a small section of 3 western states. That is a very small percentage of people that have the ability to understand how to hunt in areas with them. For the most part the non-res that come out this way are not going to be from any of these areas and are much more likely to be from a state that has never had a grizzly set foot in it. Do i feel that some people could do just fine hunting in a grizzly area..of course. But to change an entire regulation for a select number of people who understand what they are dealing with will never happen. Also, the number of grizzlies not located inside our wilderness areas is far fewer than the amount that are in the wilderness areas.

    Colorado-
    I agree entirely that there are residents that should not be setting foot into the wilderness as they have no clue what they are doing. Should they have a test that should be taken by those wanting to hunt on their own in a wilderness area? sure but i doubt that will ever happen. As for your statement about grizzlies not being able to tell the difference between a local and non-res..It is not the bears fault, Its the person standing there that has never seen a 600lb bear at 50 feet to know that grizzlies have notoriously bad eye sight and usually come in close to investigate before you can run them off. For someone that has never seen that, There is a good chance it scares the hell out of them and they think they are in danger. I would say almost every client i take is not comfortable with how close we get to bears, and yet for myself I never feel in danger cause i am commonly around them and know their actions and can tell if the bear is a bad one or not.

    I think Edelweiss has also put a great aspect to it in his above post.

  12. #19
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    Good points mtnguide.

    One thing though is why are hikers allowed to go in and not new a guide? I can go tomorrow to Wyoming to go hike but not hunt a wilderness on public land without hiring a guide. That's ridiculous. If it is because of grizzlies, why don't they put on a mandatory online class to educate people not from grizzly country. Just a thought.

    It's funny though, public land that well... Isn't.

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
    Montana Bear

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    Wyoming Bear


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    This cracked me up

 

 

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