Thinking of tossing it in on the points.

[Ridgerunner]

Point system is such a joke, I do play but in limited states, the states figured out how to sell something without giving anything really valuable in return. The points are of value to you in the future of you draw but if you never draw they just took a lot of your money every year. At least put in for tags so you have a chance of going on some hunts somebody is going to draw the random tags.

[Fink]

Unfortunately, building points is the only real way to play the game and be able to hunt every year without shelling out $10k each year. My point in my earlier post was just that if sheep is all your really interested in, then maybe it makes more sense to just go the outfitter route. However, if you like to hunt all species, then you have to play the point game in a way that makes practical and financial sense to you. For me, that means applying in states where I can draw a good tag every few years, like WY or CO, and applying in states that allow you to spread the app cost over multiple specie, like AZ, NV and UT. I think it also makes sense to apply in ID and NM, simply because you can draw every year, and your odds are just as good as the next guy.

[Edelweiss]

In Utah, Arizona and Nevada I am in every points game. In Wyoming only sheep and moose.

[Fink]

In Utah, Arizona and Nevada I am in every points game. In Wyoming only sheep and moose.

I'd say you're getting a pretty good bang for your buck then, 4 states, probably over 15 specie for somewhere around a grand. You already screwed up once, and lost your existing points, I'd rather not make the same mistake twice.

[Edelweiss]

$1000 per year to not hunt x 7 years is a wilderness elk hunt in BC. Or an ibex hunt including air fare in Kyrgistan or Mongolia.

$1000 per year to not hunt x 10 years is a mountain goat hunt in BC. Or a cape buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe for 7 days.

$1000 per year to not hunt x 15 years is a dall sheep hunt in Alaska. Or a Blue sheep hunt in Nepal. Or a Marco Polo Argali hunt in Krygistan.

$1000 per year to not hunt x 20 years is a elk hunt in on the White Mountain Indian Reservation in Arizona. Or a 10 day cape buffalo hunt in Tanzania. Or a Marco Polo Argali hunt in Tajikistan.

$1000 per year to not hunt x 30 years is a Stone Sheep hunt in BC.

I can hunt Shiras moose in BC for $7500. I don't know if I'll ever live long enough to draw a tag in Wyoming.

I can hunt pronghorn antelope in the best units in Texas or New Mexico outfitted with a land owner tag for $2000- $4000. Arizona, Utah and Nevada may never give me a tag. Hell I can buy a landowner tag in New Mexico every year for $800-1500, and guide myself.

I only screwed up by being dumb enough to get back into the game at my age.

When I am living in North America again, I'll apply in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico for Antelope and Mountain goats (where available).

Whatever state I am a resident of I will continue to play the game, as cost will be small. My father has under $100 in his 11 Wyoming sheep points.

Not going to continue to support this Game and Fish pyramid scheme any longer.

Thanks to those that gave their opinions.

[CoHiCntry]

Sounds to me like you have your answer..

[HuskyMusky]

ditch the WY sheep points! go for the random draw if anything and don't put in for points.

WY needs to change their draw system if you ask me, would probably generate more revenue too, I'm not buying a sheep bonus point in WY, had they had a better system they'd of had 500 bucks of mine by now.

many of the best sheep units only have enough tags to go to the MOST points holders.

I still think many hunters out there don't realize how bad the WY sheep bonus point system really is, so unless you're banking on things to change in the future and have points built up, or you just hope to get lucky, or you really plan to apply for 50years...

instead of 75/25, WY should goto 50/50 or 25/75, or just square or even cube points like other states, and least give a guy with 0 pts a chance at drawing a great sheep tag, vs no chance right now if you have less than 15pts etc...

a 1% chance would mean many hunters paying $100 for a WY sheep pt, but as of now 0% chance means no thanks! and no $100 for WY.

[Kevin Root]

For me some of the tag draws just don't sound like great options either. I mean putting out money every year and how many years it will take even to have the possibility to draw? For me, I just don't have that kind of time, money and I'm not really sure I want the pressure hunting those once in a lifetime tags in an area I'm never able to hunt and learn the area.

The money, time and pressure factor for me is better spent putting in for points for mediocre overlooked areas that have a more likely chance at drawing or they are over the counter draws. I'd rather hunt areas in other states or even in my own where I can hunt more often and with less stress. There is just something special to me about learning an area and being able to visit it year after year or at least more often.

Now I just need to make up a spread sheet to help me organize the data to hunt a few more states with the odds, seasons, etc. Organizing the data is something I've lacked in doing but I think it would help me narrow down some more places to hunt. Waiting a year or two is better than waiting a lifetime.

[BKC]

For me, I just don't have that kind of time, money and I'm not really sure I want the pressure hunting those once in a lifetime tags in an area I'm never able to hunt and learn the area.

Kevin, I agree 100% I do not put in for many out of state tags and if I do I go there and scout it ( and sometimes before I even put in for the tag ) and try to figure out the lay of the land. I hear a lot of peoplpe who have never hunted an area show up a few days early and then try to figure out where the game should be. This to me is a odd way of doing it. I realize I live in Colorado so most of my scouting is done on horseback a 1/2 tank of gas away and can I leave Friday night and be home Sunday evening. Most people don't have this convience but to put in for a unit in a state that they haven't even seen, except on google earth, doesn't seem like a smart decision. I guess if you then hire a guide you stand a better chance but that is more money and that just drive you costs up even more.

[Doe Nob]

Kevin, I agree 100% I do not put in for many out of state tags and if I do I go there and scout it ( and sometimes before I even put in for the tag ) and try to figure out the lay of the land. I hear a lot of peoplpe who have never hunted an area show up a few days early and then try to figure out where the game should be. This to me is a odd way of doing it. I realize I live in Colorado so most of my scouting is done on horseback a 1/2 tank of gas away and can I leave Friday night and be home Sunday evening. Most people don't have this convience but to put in for a unit in a state that they haven't even seen, except on google earth, doesn't seem like a smart decision. I guess if you then hire a guide you stand a better chance but that is more money and that just drive you costs up even more.

A lot of us love hunting the west but live thousands of miles away. Multiple scouting trips are not an option. I put in for some very good tags, if I ever draw one, I will most likely get in one scouting trip prior, then maybe a few days before the hunt, its just not feasible to travel that distance multiple times in the summer. And yes, may also hire a guide, but when they rape the non-residents for over $1000 for an elk tag, when you finally draw one in a good place, you want to make the most of it.