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Thread: Gov shutdown

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcseal2 View Post
    I like what I read here, sounds like a lot of us thing alike.

    I do have sympathy for those the government shutdown is affecting and agree that it is an unnecessary hardship on those who are doing an honest days work for an honest days pay. Also for any vet or other person who was working hard until circumstances made them unable to do so. I have absolutely NO problem with helping to support anyone unable to support themselves, that has made an effort and had the desire to do so in the past. At the same time I don't believe in a lot of government programs that use our dollars to support those who make no effort to support themselves without them having to serve the country in some fashion.

    The battle being fought with the shut-down and debt limit is definitely being made more painful than necessary by members on both sides of the aisle. Fact is that the battle should have been fought long ago before we got to this level of debt and the condition the country is in now. That would have required it be fought by leaders not those just wanting to kick the can further down the road and get re-elected. While I'm on my soapbox I will throw two ideas out before stepping off that I think are vital to the future of the country. Both are simple and make sense I think.

    Constitutional amendments for:

    Term limits. Career politicians are much of the problem. It does not serve their interest to hash out hard issues or make tough decisions, just stay in office and kick the can. Take a lifetime of politics and the backscratching needed to get re-elected off the table and it simplifies the process of making the right decision for the country. Even being on local boards you see people come in with fresh ideas and re-vitalize the board. I saw it myself when a new member came in during the last year of my term and we pulled off an event I'd never of dreamed of. I was burned out and beat down, his fresh perspective improved things. Everyone has a limited amount of fresh ideas to contribute, put them out there and vote then get out of the way of progress. 8yrs is plenty for everyone in office this country was founded on people who had real world experience not lifetime politicians.

    Balanced budget. Borrowing more than we take in is stupid and unsustainable in the long run. The first idea I threw out would help take care of this problem I think, less promises of finances or results to get re-elected. Our debt is excessive as it is, and not being able to even balance the budget let alone repay any of it is stupid and the rest of the world sees us acting this way. It helps nobody, we waste plenty of money that could be re-allocated where it is needed.

    Heard the guy that had been run off for mowing the grass at memorials without permission on the news tonight. He had an awesome quote that I will screw up here, but the gist of it was that politicians in DC need to have their limos stay home and be picked up on a bunch of short yellow buses. Pretty good idea.
    Agree completely. I'm a bit pessimistic about the lifetime politician voting for term limits. We need to clean house.

  2. #22
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    This shut down is all backwards. Should start not paying at the top starting with the president and everyone in DC. The little guy at the bottom needs his pay to live on, the top doesnt and I bet all of them in DC could live just fine if they never got paid again. If they did the job they were elected to do we wouldnt have this problem in the first place. Them borrowing money to pay interest on money they already borrowed as I understand it is the stupidest thing I ever herd of. Its just digging us in deeper. I truly believe some of the leaders in this country are trying to sell is out and trying to end the USA and all the freedoms it has stood for since 1776. Something has got to change soon. As long as we import more then we export we are going to be broke. IDK who you are or how much money you have if you spend more then you make you will eventually go broke and thats exactly whats happened here. All the regulations here have choked businesses out and sent alot of work over seas where they dont have all the regs to deal with. It all got alot worse with Clinton and been down hill ever since IMO. That was when all these 'environmental groups' got way to much power and alot of logging, ranching and farming got shut down and Clinton delcared all the national monuments while he was walking out the back door. If you figured it out I think about 10% of the country is trying to support the other 90%. Ok I think Im done, this subject gets me a little rattled!
    Last edited by Musket Man; 10-14-2013 at 11:01 AM.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musket Man View Post
    It all started with Clinton
    SORRY....I don't think so. Started way before him. I believe it really started back around Ike's time or even earlier. Congress was looking for ways to pay for the new massive interstate highway and other social programs and the Social Security Trust money was just too juicy to be left alone. They started "borrowing" the excess (and there was billions of excess trust fund dollars there back then) and leaving a so called IOU to pay it back. Never happened. Now the entitlement programs are sucking up a majority of the money, leaving very little left for discretionary spending. If that SS Trust money was still there, our gov't would be in fat city!
    If you had a savings plan like a 401K or something else and kept spending more than you earned every year, when it came time to tap that fund for your retirement......... Well you get the idea. Not really as simple as this, but you can't spend more than you earn and keep your house in order for very long. THE PIPER HAS TO BE PAID SOME DAY.
    Last edited by Colorado Cowboy; 10-14-2013 at 06:01 AM.
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  6. #24
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    Agreed CC. I worded that poorly. I believe it got alot worse in Clintons time in office and I see that time as a major turning point for alot of things. Ike was before my time lol

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musket Man View Post
    Agreed CC. I worded that poorly. I believe it got alot worse in Clintons time in office and I see that time as a major turning point for alot of things. Ike was before my time lol
    It started when people decided that the answer to all problems was the federal government and the states ceded their sovereignty to the federal government.

    The Federal Reserve Act put us over the hill and FDR coming to office was when the train hit full speed with the New Deal and all of the various socialist programs that went with it.

    The Federal Reserve Act gave the federal government the ability to manipulate the monetary supply.

    Then came FDR and the New Deal and its various flavors of socialist policies and the beginning of new interpretations of the Constitution to expand the powers of the government in order to exercise more control over the economy.

    During that same time frame the notion that the federal government should manipulate the economy become popular.

    Then Nixon, I believe it was, took the dollar off the gold standard and floated the currency. That effectively gave the Federal Reserve free reign to print as much money as it saw fit, limited only by the debt limits approved by Congress.

    Now the self-anointed elites are advocating for the elimination of the debt limit - that would give the Federal Reserve a blank check.

    The popular idea among the self-anointed elites is that Keynsian economics are the way to go and that the federal government can and should apply those economic policies on a national scale and (try to) run the economy like a giant company.

    A significant part of that is deficit spending, Keynsians don't just believe in deficit spending, they encourage it, you should be spending not only the money you have now, but you should have the money that you will make over the next 10, 15 and 20 years already spent.

    According to them, if you're not doing that, then you're not putting your money to its most productive use.

    To be fair to Keynes, he understood that there were limits to everything and didn't espouse rampant and out of control borrowing.

    But, typical of the self-anointed elites in this country, if a little is good, then a lot is better and even more is great.

    The results of that are what we see today: The political and business types in this country see the United States as one big company with the President as the CEO and the citizens of this country as its (captive) investors.

    That's why the know-it-alls in Washington and the Ivy League schools won't even think about sending you a check instead of spending it on BS projects.

    You will spend the money to pay off debts, they want to see GDP increase and paying off debts doesn't do that, only spending it on new stuff makes GDP go up.

    So, they would rather spend a billion dollars to build cold storage facilities for the Eskimos in the Arctic than cut you a check.

    Sorry to go on a rant, this stuff just drives me up a wall and the amount BS that comes out of D.C. and the games that those bunch of arrogant idiots and their Ivy League and Wall Street buddies play with peoples lives is just disgusting.
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  10. #26
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    One good thing about this thread is it makes me feel alot younger! lol. I remember Regan being in office but Clinton was the first one that I was really old enough to understand alot of these things. I could be missing something but I cant see how increasing the national debt could be good in any way. Im not against borrowing money but there needs to be a way to pay it back and if you keep borrowing more without paying it back its just getting in deeper and deeper the more you borrow. I dont really understand how this all works but it seems to me the federal government is in way over its head right now and they want to keep digging deeper.

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    What ever happened to.....We The People ? We need people in this country with the mind set people had in the 1700 and 1800's !!!They would have burned the White House and the Capital down by now.

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musket Man View Post
    One good thing about this thread is it makes me feel alot younger! lol. I remember Regan being in office but Clinton was the first one that I was really old enough to understand alot of these things.
    Hey MM...I'm not that damn old. I'l be 72 at the end of the month and just because I remember Ike and Truman don't make me ancient!!! At least I won't have as long to pay into the national debt as you guys....HA HA!

    Come out cowboy shooting sometime and I'll show you how quick an old fart can shoot and move...Yee Haw.
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  13. #29
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    Guess ya got me on that 1 CC LOL

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musket Man View Post
    One good thing about this thread is it makes me feel alot younger! lol. I remember Regan being in office but Clinton was the first one that I was really old enough to understand alot of these things. I could be missing something but I cant see how increasing the national debt could be good in any way. Im not against borrowing money but there needs to be a way to pay it back and if you keep borrowing more without paying it back its just getting in deeper and deeper the more you borrow. I dont really understand how this all works but it seems to me the federal government is in way over its head right now and they want to keep digging deeper.

    Long story short, the key is GDP - Gross Domestic Product. They want GDP to increase, all the time.

    If GDP isn't increasing, isn't increasing fast enough or, God forbid, is decreasing, then according to the D.C., Ivy League and Wall Street types, somebody needs to spend more money.

    If private investors and businesses can't or won't spend enough money, then they believe that the federal government has an obligation to spend the money and if they have to borrow it, so be it.

    The fact that they are creating a huge liability that the citizens of this country are liable for doesn't matter to them.

    To them, an increasing GDP is more important than anything else, which is why they are now publicly calling for eliminating the debt ceiling.

    I'm in the same boat as you Musket Man, I started to understand things when Clinton was there, but it was during Bush's time that I truly understood how screwed the system really is.

    Problem is, somebody like Ron Paul could be elected and inaugurated today and it would do about as much good as changing captains on the Titanic after she hit the iceberg.

    Too many people in this country buy into the system as it exists today - the idea of the "two party system", the amount of government involvement in the economy while calling it a "capitalist economy", the complete impotency of the state governments - that no one person or even handful of people will be able to make a change.

    The only peaceful way that things will change is if a real third party that has a base in the large number of people who don't affiliate themselves with either party (not the ones who call themselves independent but then vote right in line with republican/democrat party lines on every single issue) coalesces and gets a foothold.

    The other option is nothing but bad, but, unfortunately, not unrealistic due to the ignorance and arrogance of people in the federal and state governments.
    Ah, the nostalgic aroma of a yak dung stove brewing up some tea full of herbs best left untranslated.
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