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  1. #11
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    MultiSpeciesHunter,

    I have read opposing research about velocity causing death. From my experience, I don't think it does. All of us have knowledge of big game animals that were poorly hit with bullets from mega-magnum cartridges and traveling a long way after. In contrast, no animal is going very far sans heart and/or lungs. What destroys these organs is immaterial. That they're destroyed is.

    Were I accorded a hunting do-over, I'd buy a .280 Remington and never need another rifle. However, I know other hunters might see it differently. I'm good with that. What other hunters use to kill big game is their business, not mine. As long as their cartridges are capable of causing humane kills, I'm good. And I will admit, campfire cartridge banter is fun. If a hunting buddy believes an '06 is better at killing big game than a .308 Win, I'm good.

  2. #12
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    I agree! Don't use something that's ridiculous and I won't complain. I love my .300 winnie, but am not a one gun kind of guy. I'm only 18, so my gun count is limited. But I see many guns in my future. I like a guns history. I'd take a 30-06 over the newer .300 short mag any day. I feel as if I'm holding a piece of history in my hands.

    I also feel that too much speed with a smaller bullet doesn't wreak as much havoc as say a slower more powerful round. Say a person is deciding between a 100 Gr .257 Weatherby or a 220 Gr 35 Whelen on an elk hunt. Well that's about a 1000 FPS difference. But I would take the 35 Whelen any day of the week. Just the amount of destruction the Whelen causes versus the .257 Weatherby is astronomical.

    The .257, or any related caliber in a smaller load, is just not going to cause enough havoc to have that for a go-to big game gun, it will not usually have a massive wound channel as found with the slower bigger calibers.

    But I'm not saying it won't kill an elk either. Just much less margin for error. Speed doesn't necessarily always kill.
    Quote Originally Posted by SansSouci View Post
    MultiSpeciesHunter,

    I have read opposing research about velocity causing death. From my experience, I don't think it does. All of us have knowledge of big game animals that were poorly hit with bullets from mega-magnum cartridges and traveling a long way after. In contrast, no animal is going very far sans heart and/or lungs. What destroys these organs is immaterial. That they're destroyed is.

    Were I accorded a hunting do-over, I'd buy a .280 Remington and never need another rifle. However, I know other hunters might see it differently. I'm good with that. What other hunters use to kill big game is their business, not mine. As long as their cartridges are capable of causing humane kills, I'm good. And I will admit, campfire cartridge banter is fun. If a hunting buddy believes an '06 is better at killing big game than a .308 Win, I'm good.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multi-SpeciesHunter View Post
    So a .300 win mag loaded with a 180 gr Partition wouldn't be enough for you? It blew a big hole through my mulie at 320 yards this season, and I would have bet any elk would have dropped there. I'm not arguing, just curious. So you believe speed kills? I haven't decided my part on that argument. If you love speed, get 7.82 Warbird! You'll be getting close to 4000 FPS with a 150 gr bullet haha.
    I didn't say anything about "speed kills" pard. Read my post again carefully. What I said was that a baseline of 3000fps gives you much better performance out to 400 yds. A 400 yd shot are not unusual hunting in the open country I hunt. If you can't get 3000fps out of a .300 Win Mag with a 180 gr bullet, somethings wrong. I have a .300 Wby I handload for that I get 3200 fps with a 180 Nosler Partition very easily. Fact is with that load I shoot moa out to 500 yds. I also shoot moa out to 500 yda with my 30-06 with my hand loads. Mv is 3150 with a Sierra Gameking 150 gr BT.
    Colorado Cowboy
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado Cowboy View Post
    I didn't say anything about "speed kills" pard. Read my post again carefully. What I said was that a baseline of 3000fps gives you much better performance out to 400 yds. A 400 yd shot are not unusual hunting in the open country I hunt. If you can't get 3000fps out of a .300 Win Mag with a 180 gr bullet, somethings wrong. I have a .300 Wby I handload for that I get 3200 fps with a 180 Nosler Partition very easily. Fact is with that load I shoot moa out to 500 yds. I also shoot moa out to 500 yda with my 30-06 with my hand loads. Mv is 3150 with a Sierra Gameking 150 gr BT.
    My .300 Winnie shoots a little under 3000 FPS. I do agree that 3000 FPS is probably an ok bet if you plan to shoot that far. I did not mean to say you were totally for "speed kills" , my bad.

    2,950 FPS .300 Win Mag 180 gr versus a 3,200 FPS .300 Weatherby. You will not see field difference. I can kill an Elk at 400 yards just as dead as you can.

    The common amount of energy said to kill an elk is anywhere from 1200 to 1500 pounds. We will both have more than enough at 400yds. But I don't meet the 3000 FPS baseline.
    ( I won't shoot animals past that anyway)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multi-SpeciesHunter View Post
    So a .300 win mag loaded with a 180 gr Partition wouldn't be enough for you? It blew a big hole through my mulie at 320 yards this season, and I would have bet any elk would have dropped there. I'm not arguing, just curious. So you believe speed kills? I haven't decided my part on that argument. If you love speed, get 7.82 Warbird! You'll be getting close to 4000 FPS with a 150 gr bullet haha.
    The thing with speed is the less time your bullet is in the air the less time there is for wind to push it off target an less time for your target to move have seen game take a step an make a perfect shot a not so perfect shot I see it both ways I try to load 2900fps an up my 300 rum shoots 168 gr at 3280 I can get more out of it but lighten up the kick an cut holes at 200 with that load an will push 150 gr 3500fps but I feel that bullet is a little light

  6. #16
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    I believe more in foot-pounds versus FPS is all I am getting at. But a good balance of both is best. I like your idea of 3000FPS. But with todays gun talk, it's like 2800 FPS can't kill anything anymore.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddress00 View Post
    After a weekend at the long range in bv I switched to a nosler in 165. Shot tighter an flatter for me.
    I shoot the barnes bullets they out shoot most conventional bullet types I still like my lead core bullets but barnes are my go to bullets

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky hunter View Post
    The thing with speed is the less time your bullet is in the air the less time there is for wind to push it off target an less time for your target to move have seen game take a step an make a perfect shot a not so perfect shot I see it both ways I try to load 2900fps an up my 300 rum shoots 168 gr at 3280 I can get more out of it but lighten up the kick an cut holes at 200 with that load an will push 150 gr 3500fps but I feel that bullet is a little light
    Love the RUM! Good balance of foot-pounds and speed. But I feel many people say "speed kills" when really a fast .257 can definitely be blown off course at 500 yards. It is just a smaller bullet. But a larger bullet like a 30-378 or RUM, will have the speed and size to not be blown off course.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multi-SpeciesHunter View Post
    Love the RUM! Good balance of foot-pounds and speed. But I feel many people say "speed kills" when really a fast .257 can definitely be blown off course at 500 yards. It is just a smaller bullet. But a larger bullet like a 30-378 or RUM, will have the speed and size to not be blown off course.
    The high the bc of the bullet the better an on most bullets the bigger they are the higher the bc is a big bullet with a high bc will out run a smaller faster bullet down range an less wind drift I just went with the 168 to lighten up the recoil

  10. #20
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    It's just a matter of finding the right balance for you personally.

    I look first at finding something with the bullet weight and energy to do the job. Then I look at finding a way to do it without to much recoil, because heavier recoiling rifles cause me to flinch. I shot everything with a 22LR or 300 win with hot loaded 180gr bullets for to long. This wasn't smart, it worked great for a while but after time my flinch started causing missed shots. The 300 win may have been a little overkill for coyotes, crows, etc. from awkward positions.

    I started thinking about this, I hate to miss, and learned I could shoot a 140gr bullet with an identical BC and velocity from some other rounds and use my same wind and elevation holds with much less recoil. I started doing this and missing less. The bullet weight and energy were still adequate for elk and smaller game and my shot placement was better. Later I started playing with the lower BC but higher velocity 22, 24, and 25 calibers and learned that they also have their place.

    I am not saying anything against the 300 win mag or any other round, many people can shoot them fine. I could to for a while. I shot to darn much and after a while the recoil took it's toll on me personally. I didn't let the bruises on my shoulder heal between rifle shooting sessions and was also doing some competitive shot gunning at the time that further beat my shoulder. It didn't work for me. I use a 204 Ruger, 223, 6mm, 264WM, and 270 win for most all my hunting anymore and each has it's place. Never taking to much recoil lets me practice a lot while keeping my flinch under control. Others are just as good, these are just what I have.

    I evaluate Time of Flight (primarily due to velocity) and BC to find the most efficient bullet weight for each gun for it's intended purpose. Then I try to select the bullet with the right expansion characteristics and BC to find a load that gives me what I want. I chronograph the loads and once I find the right mix of accuracy and velocity with the right bullet I use it. I shoot some longer ranges and hunt in windy conditions so I pay attention to the little things, try to give myself what advantages I can.

 

 

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