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Thread: 7mm rem mag

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    7mm rem mag

    By all means I am no bullet expert and I should probably know more. I just put a new nikon prostaff 3.5 - 14 x 50 scope on my gun for more confidence in reaching out to an animal. I am wondering how far I should go for elk with a 150 gr trophy copper. I know its all about shot placement and I feel comfortable with that and would not take the shot if I did'nt feel good about it. 400 yrds gives me 1765 energy. Would you feel comfortable to 500 yrds? How far would you push it assuming you have shot that distance and feel good with it?

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    Most quality 150 grain bullets of reasonable BC out of a 7RM will do the job on an elk at 500 yards easily when placed correctly.

    Shooter skill and wind will be the limiting factors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt4duck View Post
    By all means I am no bullet expert and I should probably know more. I just put a new nikon prostaff 3.5 - 14 x 50 scope on my gun for more confidence in reaching out to an animal. I am wondering how far I should go for elk with a 150 gr trophy copper. I know its all about shot placement and I feel comfortable with that and would not take the shot if I did'nt feel good about it. 400 yrds gives me 1765 energy. Would you feel comfortable to 500 yrds? How far would you push it assuming you have shot that distance and feel good with it?
    I shoot a 7 mag with 140 grain TTSX Barnes. I would feel comfortable in its capability to kill an elk at 400 yards and beyond. Like BB said skill and ability are usually the limiting factors. Where I've hunted elk in Montana the elk are rarely in a comfortable mood and usually on the go to get away from pressure so in my experience it would be hard to get a comfortable shot on a stationary bull.

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    Thanks for the feedback....I do feel more comfortable shooting the 7 over the 338 at a distance. I hear you on elk being jumpy and it seems that when you do see them relaxed it is at those greater distances when you have time to observe. I have a good quality hunt coming this year and am just trying to decide which to use. I think I'm just trying to hear the ability of the gun to help my confidence, I'm sure the one that got away was all my bad, just wish i knew where that bullet landed. Obviously not in the boiler.

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    The "recommended minimum energy to cleanly take an elk is listed at 1500 lbs of energy by some writers. I have seen other state that 1200lbs is enough energy. If you know your speed you can plug that into many different online ballistics calculators with your bullet weight to find energy at different ranges. I like the hornady calculator myself. It is easy to use. I have personally seen elk cleanly taken with a 7mag at different ranges. It is plenty of gun out to 500 yards in my opinion as long as the shooter does his part. As the guys above mention, the real variable is the elk and your personal shooting ability. On calm, standing still, elk I will take prone bi-pod shots out to 500 yards with my 30-06. Never had one get away... My recommendation is to practice well beyond your personal range limit for game. I shoot 7 to 800 yards in practice. It makes a 500 yard shot feel a little easier. We use milk jugs full of water set at 50 yard increments for practice- fun and challenging at super long range. Good luck and shoot straight!

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    "Minimum energy to cleanly kill" is a bunch of hooey.

    Damaging vital tissue is what is needed for a quick kill. Having enough penetration and impact velocity to cause the bullet to expand is what is needed.

    Add up the energy numbers for a 420 grain arrow at 230 fps impact velocity and see if it makes the arbitrary "minimum" energy numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitterroot Bulls View Post
    "Minimum energy to cleanly kill" is a bunch of hooey.

    Damaging vital tissue is what is needed for a quick kill. Having enough penetration and impact velocity to cause the bullet to expand is what is needed.

    Add up the energy numbers for a 420 grain arrow at 230 fps impact velocity and see if it makes the arbitrary "minimum" energy numbers.
    I'll agree with you but there aren't too many other "measurable" systems to gauge your setup. Energy is required to expand the bullet and make it penetrate. The numbers I mention are the basic recommendations out there for elk. Not enough energy with a ttsx for example will cause non-expansion (according to the manufacturer) thus creating a small hole through to the stopping point- similar to shooting an elk with a field point. While it may be fatal it will take a bit longer for the elk to die creating a non-clean kill in my book and a tough tracking job. Your 420 grain arrow at 230 feet per second meets the recommended energy for archery equipment by the way. The reason it has enough energy is the broadhead cutting a big hole through the animal resulting in a clean kill if placed correctly.

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    hilltop, my response wasn't really directed at you so much as a general way of thinking about these issues. no offense intended, of course.

    To further the discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltop View Post
    I'll agree with you but there aren't too many other "measurable" systems to gauge your setup.
    IMO, the best measurable system is velocity. Bullet makers design their bullets for a range of impact velocities. For most hunting bullets the minimum is around 1800 fps. So my recommendation is to check your charts and when your velocity runs under 1800, that is your theoretical range limit. Your actual limit depends on skill and conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltop View Post
    Not enough energy with a ttsx for example will cause non-expansion (according to the manufacturer) thus creating a small hole through to the stopping point- similar to shooting an elk with a field point.
    This is my point exactly. Even though the bullet is hitting with much more "energy" than the arrow, the tissue damage is similar, resulting in similar deaths. It is the damage that kills. A easier expanding bullet hitting at the same velocity and energy level will cause much more damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltop View Post
    Your 420 grain arrow at 230 feet per second meets the recommended energy for archery equipment by the way.
    Again, this supports the point. How can there be different "minimum energies" for the same animal?

    I think it is more accurate to think of appropriate impact velocities for the projectile rather than some arbitrary energy minimum.

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    Exactly what I wanted to say...lol you just said it much better! I misunderstood your first message- been a long week at the desk and I'm dying to get outside.

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    Thanks guys. I was just about to shut this down. Keep it positive or don't respond.
    I don't Break the rules, I Modify them.

 

 

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